MiToS re-built/fit- versilcraft Mystery43

[kashurst]

All looking really good, the Iroko toe rail is a real quality touch.
At the risk of teaching grandmother etc; I am sure you have already thought of this as you are getting close to going back in the water, don't forget to replace the packing in the stern glands (or renew the seals) as they will have dried out completely and will probably not adjust much once you are afloat. Good luck with the paint job.

 

[petem]

Cosmetically this looks like the most progress so far. Looking forward to seeing the paint job.

 

[MapisM]

Great progress Vas, congrats.

Re your questions...

BTW, it's 20mm thick iroko epoxied and bolted (every 350mm) to the underlying treated ply. Locals' opinion is that I shouldn't leave it untreated as it's likely going to warp and generally deteriorate quickly. I don't quite bite that, but I also don't like sanding and painting every couple of years or so. Definitely no varnish for me, impregnating oil is the most I can accept. Any other ideas, most welcomed.
...
If I go for the one 6mm ply + 10mm iroko, I'll get two 20X40 "frames" across underneath to keep the thing in shape. Objections anyone? And do you also use teak oil on strips of iroko and how does that behave on the caulking???

I always kept the iroko bits (of which I've got plenty!) varnished, on my boat, 'cause the consensus from all carpenters I spoke with is that iroko is much more prone to cracking than teak, if left unprotected - where protected means either varnished or painted.
I don't think oil is a problem with caulking, but as I'm told, it's nowhere near as effective as varnish or paint in protecting iroko planks.
Btw, imho gloss varnish is the best alternative from an aesthetical viewpoint, but it does require a refresh each and every year.
Forget a couple of years without a refresh, particularly in the southern Med sun. In fact, I'm even aware of maniacs who regularly make one light sanding and a hand of varnish mid-season...
Eventually, not being so keen on varnishing myself, this year I went for the all white paint as you might have seen in the other thread. Not as bad as I feared, and hopefully it should last much more than varnish.
Overall, that's the alternative I would choose right away, in your boots - also because it's much harder to properly paint wood after it has been oiled.

Just another 2c on the bow roller.
Those thingies are, by design, prone to bend when heavily stressed by lateral forces, as it happens when the boat swings around a lot in strong wind.
I didn't understand exactly what type of strengthening you made, but I doubt that you can make miracles, 'cause all bow rollers I've seen are clearly designed to withstand vertical rather than lateral loads.
Imho, the only solution to this problem is a strong snubber, attached to the cleat(s).
Not necessarily to be used every time you drop the hook, like for a short daily stay in fair weather, but if you get used to fit it whenever a bit of a blow is expected, the bow roller will last forever.

 

[vas]

Great progress Vas, must be getting excited at the prospect of being afloat within 2 months. What will you do with all the extra spare time then?

nice Q, the backlog of work work that I have to do is unbelievable, so I guess I'll spend the next year or so catching up

Hi Vas good going !

I understand your dilemma about the finish on the wood capping, had the same experience.
we tried oiling but not succesfull as we didn't regularly enough re-oil the wood
imho a high quality gloss varnish is still the nicest looking finish. We applied 6 layers of Epiphanes, and I hope that this will last at least 2 season or more,
when appliing one extra layer after the season, according Epiphanes advice...

The iroko capping is the only thing I'll need to treat regularly. I think I can live with that, but since I hate shiny things, I'll go for the oil option first

nice to see the shiny polished rail studs, I was hoping that you would / could get that finish with the aluminium parts.

Alloy polishing is finally not that difficult, just takes time (as everything else...)

good to hear that you can finally spend some time in the engine room
don't remember exactly but didn't you have a issue with one of the engines, and your exhaust riser, or did you take care of that in the mean time.

Two new ss exhaust risers custom fabricated are waiting for me to pick them up from Athens. Was a long process mainly due to me visiting Athens irregularly with big gaps in between (enough for both me and the fabricator to forget what we're doing...)

I'm paying much attention on how you finish your deck surface, and get to know the result after time,
glass fabric, epoxy etc... (water proof, painting, teak sticking on top, ....) as I'm planning to do something similar in a few years time, when replacing the teak deck floor.
I like the way you made the gunwale / capping, well done !

yep, will have to wait for next year for the teak though It's nicely reinforced and sealed for the time being.

All looking really good, the Iroko toe rail is a real quality touch.
At the risk of teaching grandmother etc; I am sure you have already thought of this as you are getting close to going back in the water, don't forget to replace the packing in the stern glands (or renew the seals) as they will have dried out completely and will probably not adjust much once you are afloat. Good luck with the paint job.

Thanks, this iroko will make the whole superstructure and alloy railing stand out imo.
Yes, it's in my todo list. Wonder though to what extend the packing dries (looks like it's impregnated in something slippery)

Cosmetically this looks like the most progress so far. Looking forward to seeing the paint job.

me too! Guy is starting on Wed finally, me searching all the various types of unbelievably expensive lightweight/foamy/fancy epoxy fillers. Jotun 40euro a LT, other brands as high as 80euro per litre!!!
AND I NEED APPROX 30LT of the thing!!!
Checking on the web for custom made recipes so that I can use the cheaper epoxies I buy locally from www.fibermaxcomposites.com
Seems that glass bubbles combined with cellulose and a bit of talcum powder is going to do the trick and keep consumables for filling the whole boat to under 500euro.

Great progress Vas, congrats.

Re your questions...

I always kept the iroko bits (of which I've got plenty!) varnished, on my boat, 'cause the consensus from all carpenters I spoke with is that iroko is much more prone to cracking than teak, if left unprotected - where protected means either varnished or painted.
I don't think oil is a problem with caulking, but as I'm told, it's nowhere near as effective as varnish or paint in protecting iroko planks.
Btw, imho gloss varnish is the best alternative from an aesthetical viewpoint, but it does require a refresh each and every year.
Forget a couple of years without a refresh, particularly in the southern Med sun. In fact, I'm even aware of maniacs who regularly make one light sanding and a hand of varnish mid-season...
Eventually, not being so keen on varnishing myself, this year I went for the all white paint as you might have seen in the other thread. Not as bad as I feared, and hopefully it should last much more than varnish.
Overall, that's the alternative I would choose right away, in your boots - also because it's much harder to properly paint wood after it has been oiled.

Considering that I've only got this part visible, I think I'll stick to oil in order to avoid the rubbing down every year...

Just another 2c on the bow roller.
Those thingies are, by design, prone to bend when heavily stressed by lateral forces, as it happens when the boat swings around a lot in strong wind.
I didn't understand exactly what type of strengthening you made, but I doubt that you can make miracles, 'cause all bow rollers I've seen are clearly designed to withstand vertical rather than lateral loads.
Imho, the only solution to this problem is a strong snubber, attached to the cleat(s).
Not necessarily to be used every time you drop the hook, like for a short daily stay in fair weather, but if you get used to fit it whenever a bit of a blow is expected, the bow roller will last forever.

True, will do in the future.

Reinforcement was by way of two strips following the hull slope and coming up to the top of the bow roller giving a bit of extra torsional stability. The following pics give a better view.

Mini update:

Aft deck is getting there... Side capping bolted in place, transom capping is to be trimmed and test fitted tomorrow morning.
retracting cleats are fine (1h on the chisel per side...)

Finished sanding and matching the stbrd side iroko capping.

Decided to keep the final capping a bit wider to make sure ride is going to be a bit less wet.

cheers

V.

 

[vas]

lots of progress, many pics, no time...
so, just a v.laconic update with more pics than words.

repair on a chipping due to wrong/quick use of the router when getting the capping offset right:

sanded ok after that (no pic though...)

also epoxied in place two stops/steps at the aft ending of the side walkways, forcing all water out through the toerail hole and not down the aft deck as they'd do.
Needs a mat and pigmented epoxy to last till next year that I'll teak over it.

All aft deck capping is in place, trimmed inside and left outside to decide on the overhang, seems that 20mm will be possible all around.

Ah, need an opinion on the following two pics. Basically which one you prefer, the fully flush or the almost flush (6mm above deck) It's the alloy retractable cleats I bought and fitted. I'm happier with the 6mm above the iroko level tbh, else I need to route a 3mm gap all around and fill with caulking to make it look good, plus the fact that when I decide to sand the iroko it's going to be a bit awkward making sure you don't end up sanding the cleat (and removing the anodizing...)

Aft deck alloy sandwitch (as used in the cabins) mock, cut, trimmed and bolted in place with nice hex head ss countersunk screws. Doing the templates in 3mm cardboard managed to test the skin strength in my palm. Small angle grinder with 24grit sandpaper, removed a good chunk of skin in less than a second. Rubbish!

and half the covers/lids of the cabinets cut in shape, reinforced and strips of iroko glued underneath to make sure they don't move about all over the place.
Alf, need the co that did the ss mechanisms you have in your aft deck cabinets please. Need to check how much they are and their offsets so I can order a few.

Ripped off the white hard and thin insulation from the lower helm area, son got two coats of teak oil on the inside of the roof and helped me fit the new 50mm thick rockwool insulation there:

And finally!

after lots of tests with different fillers, painter has almost done a full filler cover on the hull (above wl)
That is around 20lt of epoxy filler (at 20euro a lt means 400euro!) Not cheap but cheaper than the Jotun 45euro/lt or the Hembel almost 60e/lt.
Now it's going to be sanding, filling again and then sanding again and then touchup and then sprayed on primer, sanding and polyurethene paint.


first pic shows the various tests with fillers on the port side (Jotun is beige, the one used grey and my homemade attempts are white) When I get some time I'll do some more selfmix epoxy filler attempts and report.

following pic shows the aft part of the port side with the strip just below the rubbing strake filled properly.

this pic shows v.nicely the hull lines. The strip under the iroko rubbing strake is not filled yet (as in the previous pic) since he needs to sand a bit more and do the bevel finish right. Will be filled and painted as well, same colour.

Very much in favour of keeping the hull at that sort of colour (maybe slightly lighter, but definitely grey as was the original plan) Superstructure will be two or three tones of greys as well, more slivery grey possibly will depend on the available colour palette (which is rather limited I've been told)
The iroko will do a nice contrast to the hull colour me thinks.
Slowly getting there!

cheers

V.

 

[Drewster]

I do hope I get to see the finished job in person epic rebuild

 

[MapisM]

Ah, need an opinion on the following two pics. Basically which one you prefer, the fully flush or the almost flush (6mm above deck) It's the alloy retractable cleats I bought and fitted. I'm happier with the 6mm above the iroko level tbh, else I need to route a 3mm gap all around and fill with caulking to make it look good, plus the fact that when I decide to sand the iroko it's going to be a bit awkward making sure you don't end up sanding the cleat (and removing the anodizing...)

Well, if your question really is what we "prefer", the answer is bound to be the fully flush one, from a strictly aesthetical viewpoint.
BUT, if it were my boat, I wouldn't go for it.
On top of the good reasons you already mentioned, I would fear that the high thermal excursions of the Med could detach the caulking all around the base, also because that would be attached to alu inside, and wood outside.

Just one question, though.
In the non-flush alternative that you are considering, the base plate of the cleat (as visible in your previous pic below) would be overlapping the wood, correct?
If so, the sealing would work in compression, hence being stronger and more longlasting. That would definitely be my choice.
But when you called it "almost flush", I had the impression that the hole in the wood is already as large as the cleat base, and you are thinking to just raise the cleat a little bit. In which case, the sealing would be as problematic as in the flush installation, therefore you might as well go for the latter...

Cleats aside, great progress indeed, congratulations.
My personal preference is for white hulls, possibly with some stripes, rather than any other colour, but that's obviously a typical "each to their own" matter.

 

[rosssavage]

Slight thread drift (sorry sorry sorry...) Vas, unfamiliar with your vessel - is this the same one?

Spotted in Kasiopi (Corfu) this week.

 

[RIN]

Vas
When I was on the boat you showed me the cleats and I am sure I saw a slight bevel around the top of the cleat. Surely if the cleats were meant to be fitted absolutely flush, the edges would not be beveled.

 

[rafiki_]

I prefer the flush cleats Vas, but have no idea how you would seal them from a water ingress perspective. Are you sure you can seal them fitted "proud"?

 

[vas]

I do hope I get to see the finished job in person epic rebuild

Welcome to have a look whenever got to travel though as highly unlikely she'll make it to the UK ever...

Well, if your question really is what we "prefer", the answer is bound to be the fully flush one, from a strictly aesthetical viewpoint.
BUT, if it were my boat, I wouldn't go for it.
On top of the good reasons you already mentioned, I would fear that the high thermal excursions of the Med could detach the caulking all around the base, also because that would be attached to alu inside, and wood outside.

Just one question, though.
In the non-flush alternative that you are considering, the base plate of the cleat (as visible in your previous pic below) would be overlapping the wood, correct?
If so, the sealing would work in compression, hence being stronger and more longlasting. That would definitely be my choice.
But when you called it "almost flush", I had the impression that the hole in the wood is already as large as the cleat base, and you are thinking to just raise the cleat a little bit. In which case, the sealing would be as problematic as in the flush installation, therefore you might as well go for the latter...

Cleats aside, great progress indeed, congratulations.
My personal preference is for white hulls, possibly with some stripes, rather than any other colour, but that's obviously a typical "each to their own" matter.

Vas
When I was on the boat you showed me the cleats and I am sure I saw a slight bevel around the top of the cleat. Surely if the cleats were meant to be fitted absolutely flush, the edges would not be beveled.

RIN's right!
R, you are correct there's a slight bevel on top and the semi-flush option is what most likely was officially designed for. However MM, considering that I want to enlarge the "hole" in the iroko and flush mount it, I'm sure the 3mm black thing will stick OK. Furthermore, IF there's any leak, it will simply go straight down to the hawsehole and out of the way no problems there.
OTOH, the semiflush is easier to manage in terms of annual sanding and treating the iroko without the fear of sanding over the cleat and messing the finish/anodizing...

Slight thread drift (sorry sorry sorry...) Vas, unfamiliar with your vessel - is this the same one?

Spotted in Kasiopi (Corfu) this week.

yep Ross, even the name gives a good clue
Probably a GRP Mystere like MystereMarkus and Pete from here.
Looks horid with the aft deck covers on, doesn't she? Skipped the ones on mine and I'll have to think v.hard for a way to do side covers if needed (to keep the sun away)

I prefer the flush cleats Vas, but have no idea how you would seal them from a water ingress perspective. Are you sure you can seal them fitted "proud"?

Will try the proud option most likely but as I said above, with decently treated timber, a few drops sipping in is no real issue. Straight out of the hawseholes as with the provided gutters on the cleats.

And another mini update:

Painter is pushing me to do things I was trying to avoid/postpone... So did the stbrd hawsehole patch as I originally thought I'll get away with it, but no, had to go.

Finished all the steps/lids for the aft deck cabinets and started the mat/epoxy and pigmented epoxy treatment to get them good for this year service. Will teak over next year (seems that next year I'll be mainly teaking ) Note that started on port side with full pieces of ply and as I moved to strbrd I started scarf jointing various leftovers as there's not much point buying a full 1.22X2.44 piece of ply just for these small bits and pieces

Temps are getting a bit silly, so have to wake up at silly o clock and work up to 10-11max on the open. Thursday was exceptionally hot which meant that Fri morning at 7am was too bloody hot to work. A northerly wind was blowing over the water and it was boiling hot! amazing!

and this is what happens with 4% off in the mixture of hardener on epoxy at 35C (in the shadow this lunch time...) End up going 4% under in the hardener to have decent working life of 15-20mins...

this week will be mainly finishing the f/b deck epoxying and designing the single long bench for helming up there. The side/corner elements that will create the overall social space up there will be a winter project as I'm neither too sure on my design, nor have the time for it right now.
When the weather's too hot, I'll start cleaning/upholstering the galley area getting ready for the cabinets moving in by the end of the week.

ah, stbrd side all epoxy fillered gives a good idea of the hull shape/lines and colour with the iroko rubbing strake/capping on top

Wonder where I'm going to put the waterline though! got marks on the original one which wasn't quite right anyway. So I guess I'll keep the hull painting low and correct next year by lifting the antifoul line accordingly rather than going the other way round.

cheers

V.

 

[rafiki_]

She really is starting to look more like a boat than a project Vas, brilliant progress. Temps look fantastic, we should swap some of ours, mid to high teens last Friday/Saturday. A bit better today, but still not much sign of summer. However hard manual work at anything over 25C is very tiring, so good luck with this

 

[KevB]

Truly amazing progress. She is transforming before our eyes. Well done Vas.

 

[Firefly625]

Truly amazing progress. She is transforming before our eyes. Well done Vas.

magnificent effort... and in that heat! Good on you Vas.

 

[MikeBrazier]

Update. UPDATE

Mike

 

[vas]

Update. UPDATE

Mike

Wait WAIT

in Lisbon atm with 40odd students for a workshop, back to Athens tonight, picking up exhausts, a hatch, few bits and bobs tomorrow and back to Volos in the evening.
Full report to follow (may actually do it while waiting for my flight connection). a bullet list of things done follows:

• All the hull is covered with bloody expensive epoxy filler, sanded, filled again and sanded again now ready for priming.
• Superstructure is at the epoxy filling stage and should be ready for priming on Monday-Tuesday.

Doing various odd left over jobs and progressing well.

• George brought in the galley furniture all nice and shiny, thankfully arrived and lifted in place with no issues. I probably need two days to get them in place, plumbed and wired up and functioning (that is sink, fridge, hob and oven, doors, hinges, etc)
• Decided on the chart table which will be mainly used as galley bench/worksurface being covered in my 10mm thick iroco leftovers and teakoiled. Colour and texture nicely matches the 70ies black leatherette and alloy trimming
• Managed to get the grips with removing the sliding doors between the salon and aft deck (wasn't easy!) so that's to be removed for replacing the last bit of timber I'm planning to do for now
• Cleaning the lazarete bilges, stripping various coats of bilge paint
• Finishing off with the cabins' corridor bilge paining (well teakoiling) got son to do it as it's a bit cramped in there...

Important thing is that got enough rest to have energy for the following 3weeks.

more to come

cheers

V.

 

[wakeup]

Can't wait for the next instalment.

 

[MikeBrazier]

Thanks Vas,

It's just that I was starting to get withdrawl symtoms, I really look forward to reading this thread and when I saw that it had dropped down to page 4 I thought something isn't right. Looking forward to the full update post and the pictures!

Mike.

 

[vas]

next installment...

actually reporting on a couple of weeks of work, sorry about that, but having trouble finding the time to post.

Right, started cleaning the bilges out of a series of coats of paint. I'm talking about lazarette and e/r bilges, the front one under the cabins are all clean, sanded, checked and teakoiled.
The ones at the rear will be painted (not happy about it, but not much I can do)

This is a job for when the heat is too much to work outside or in the galley/salon area, so lunchtime job.
Needless to say that all the sorry looking earth bonding cables will be renewed and the rotten pipe connecting the two 250lt water tanks will be replaced with new (plastic) one. Need to empty 250lts of water though...

Closed a few outlets in the transom, one was in use the other two were plugged by the previous owner but didn't find any reason to keep them not to mention I wasn't happy with getting them too close to the waterline.
Will have a couple of the port side (symmetrical) for the lazarette hatch drain and the watermaker drain.

Completed work on the aft deck for now. Couple of coats of pigmented epoxy to follow once all work is done and ready for launch.

Rebuilt/reconstructured the lazarette hatch out of a new piece of 15mm ply and reuse of the original framework underneath. A fair amount of work involved (around 9h!) dismantling the old hatch, dumping the skin, sanding and cleaning all pieces of timber (all were sound!), resizing and preparing them and finally epoxying and screwing together.

Used a 280gr/m2 mat and a series of coats of epoxy to finish it off. Did the same to all covers of the new aft deck cabinets. Sanded them all down with a 120grit to get a decent finish for now.

Next area to tackle was galley. Cleaned all the accumulated mess and got the charttable at this state:

After a bit of headscratching, managed to remove a 12mm ply with the black leatherette lining out of the way, cleaned all the old lining and foam out of the surrounding bulkheads and got everything ready for relining

and cleaned the place

Next job was epoxying the galley floor which was fitted last year but never completed...

everything foamed and ready for lining

Lining in place. Was lucky as the whole foam/lining was done in a cool morning with an amazing N wind that kept the whole area cool and pleasant to work in

Note the iroko 10mm slab which will be used throughout the ex-charttable area:

Finally the heavily modified galley furniture are back in place with no drama

Coming back from Lisbon, I managed to find at a reasonable price a well put together alloy framed hatch for the ceiling of the lower helm (were temps go up to mid 40ies at lunchtime!) Wanted something smaller than the bow hatch (of 55mm dia) so a 450X250mm one was ideal.
Made a 12mm frame to take the coachroof curvature and cut the hole and epoxied in place. Tomorrow will get the underlying strengthening beams epoxied in place and bolted to the surrounding beams. I hope that this mod will drop temps in there by a good 8-10degrees to just above cabin temps

reached the 20pic per post limit, so following in next post.

cheers

V.

 

[vas]

and the complete hole this evening (epoxying after the sun set...)

Preparation for painting continues at a decent pace. We are now down to 60kg of this special epoxy filler (40went on the hull alone!) and looks like another 10 will be necessary to complete the superstructure. So around 1000euro for filler alone.

All the hull is fully filled/sanded/filled/sanded Alekos hopes to be able to prime the hull this week and proceed with painting the transom during the w/e or early next week. I want the transom ASAP in order to redo the hawseholes and fit the passerelle (that will be fun!)

son posing on port side:

stbrd side in the evening sun:

some details along the top where the ply strip under the iroco rubbing strake meets the hull ply, taking a lot of time and some special spray gun filler sessions over the w/e.

getting late off to bed!

cheers

V.