Mayday Radio for Help.

[BurnitBlue]

I don't want to hijack Horatio's thread about the ARC rescue so I have started this one.

A couple of years ago I was also a few hundred miles west of the Cap Verde. I got into difficulties in a huge viscious squall. I got the sails down but the wind, which lasted for about six hours, repeatedly blew them out of the lashings. This included the hanked on headsails. I eventually used all spare line to keep them lashed down.

I have no idea of the strength of the wind, but I had to lie down, curled up on the cockpit floor, so that I could breath. This was because of the spray. I also had to handsteer under bare poles to run off.

The next morning the wind dropped, enormous seas so the boat rolled from gunnel to gunnel. I was absolutely exhausted, cold and wet.

I know for a fact that I would have called for help if I had had an SSB or epirb aboard. I didn't so I crashed out below and slept.

When I woke some hours later I made some coffee, unlashed the sails and carried on.

If I had called for help the rescue vessel would have found a fully serviceable yacht with a very demorolised me aboard.

I am convinced that the act of sending a mayday can take the fight out of a man and leave a depressed wreck behind.

I believe that the act of giving up cannot be retrieved easily.

In my case I had no choice but to sleep it off. The next day I was refreshed and still in the game.

 

[snowleopard]

It is often the case that the people give up before the boat does. As has often been said, 'you're an amateur, the boat is a professional'

How many times have we seen boats abandoned by their crew turn up days or weeks later, still afloat. For example about 3 years ago two ARC boats were abandoned and turned up later after drifting to the West Indies unmanned. Richard Woods' Eclipse was found still afloat months later.

In the days when we didn't have radios there wasn't the temptation to give up. I remember finding myself singlehanded for the first time in mid channel with 'Force 10 imminent' forecast. If I'd had a radio I might have called for help then.

 

[Searush]

Being 110 miles from my boat I don't get as many opportunities to sail as I would like. So I read a lot. What you describe is exactly what I have read in simply hundreds of sailing tales. It is particularly true for those sailing over 40 years ago and/or with very limited resources. Either radios weren't available or they were too expensive or unreliable to carry on a small boat.

Our expectations change over the years. We discussed this in the "starter boat" threads where people today expect a 36' boat with all mod con as a starter boat rather than a 20' ply boat with limited electrics & no gismos. Nowadays, we seem to consider "survival conditions" means anything over F7 or a nasty cross sea. Now, I agree those are really nasty & unpleasant, & will incapacitate most people on most boats, but the boats will generally come thro OK.

It's the old "Don't get into the liferaft unless you are stepping UP into it". One's best chance of survival is to stay with the boat while it floats. Altho' stepping up the side of a freighter is a bit safer provided you are prepared to watch your boat get scuttled.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

An interesting observation. People who survive traumatic survival experiences can be more at risk of death when rescued. Its as if whatever energy they drew on to stay alive is released once in the safe hands of a rescuer.

I have read what you describe in "Safety and Survival at Sea, ECB Lee and Kenneth Lee, Greenhill Books, ISBN 1-85367-034-0. This book also discusses the psychology of survival. Also the RYA booklet Sea Survival emphasises that one must "Believe You Will Survive".

This raises the question then are you more likely to "Believe You Will Survive" (in a situation which one perceives to be life threatening) if the rescue services have been notified or does it cause dependence and transfer of responsibility of survival to another person other than the self.

I don't think it does. You still have to survive and deal with the situation but in the confidence that rescue is now more likely e.g. Tony Bullemore and Jessica Watson's recent knock down.

However, I do think that instant communication and the advancement of international rescue co-ordination has the potential to lure sailors into a false sense of security and maybe even reduce the preparatory work to be able to survive.

In your own case why do you think you would call for help if your boat was still sound? A sound boat and abject tiredness are not in my mind reasons to call for help in the ocean.

 

[TradewindSailor]

Being 110 miles from my boat I don't get as many opportunities to sail as I would like. So I read a lot. What you describe is exactly what I have read in simply hundreds of sailing tales. It is particularly true for those sailing over 40 years ago and/or with very limited resources. Either radios weren't available or they were too expensive or unreliable to carry on a small boat.

Our expectations change over the years. We discussed this in the "starter boat" threads where people today expect a 36' boat with all mod con as a starter boat rather than a 20' ply boat with limited electrics & no gismos. Nowadays, we seem to consider "survival conditions" means anything over F7 or a nasty cross sea. Now, I agree those are really nasty & unpleasant, & will incapacitate most people on most boats, but the boats will generally come thro OK.

It's the old "Don't get into the liferaft unless you are stepping UP into it". One's best chance of survival is to stay with the boat while it floats. Altho' stepping up the side of a freighter is a bit safer provided you are prepared to watch your boat get scuttled.

Getting aboard a freighter in proper survival weather is extremely dangerous: being swept away, crushed, or the yacht being holed before everybody is off. I also taked to a skipper who had to have one of his crew taken off on passage from the Caribbean to the Azores and had his boat holed by the US Coastguard RIB, thankfully above the waterline.

I hate the 'beam me up' mentality of some so called 'yachtmen'. Abandoning yachts without rudders mid-ocean with nothing to hit, shrouds broken, one crew sick .... others perfectly well, ...... but now we've got EPIRB, we're goin to get more and more of these.

 

[jpcarter30]

[QUOTE In your own case why do you think you would call for help if your boat was still sound? A sound boat and abject tiredness are not in my mind reasons to call for help in the ocean.[/QUOTE]

I've often felt that if you have the necessary seamanship an ocean crossing is a test of you and your ability to cope with the challenge before you. That's surely the challenge? I personally believe that all the gizmos are unnecessary in most events and if you have to call it a day in mid-ocean then at least let it be because your boats sinking below you or somebody's injured badly.

 

[Blueboatman]

BlueToo,
What a great honest post.

Sails down and wait it out. Yup. Life chucks experience at you , ready or not!

I wonder if the cultural shift is such that we now more or less expect to be pulled out of our own doodoo by the authorities in one way or another, whenever and wherever.

It's as if in a way people want the t-shirt from crossing an ocean but with absolute minimum of discomfort or uncertainty, or heaven forbid, delay.. All those parties, that itinerary , those flights booked ..
Perhaps it is a ''fun thing to do' one season and not a very real adventure any more..Seems a tad superficial to me actually, but that is IMO. Maybe I am justing thinking ''old'' !
Certainly abandoning ship cos they haven't reasoned and seriously prepared to assume that a built-to-price boat's sporty spade rudder will at some point in its life fail seems seriously bonkers . At least tie a frigging rope to it or drill a hole in it ready for emergency juryrigging-or would that detract from the eventual resale price,hmm?

Or that the very features that make it so attractive at anchor might not lend itself very well to 'taking it on the nose' when the crew really do have to drop the sails and just ride it out for 48 hours..
Much easier to wave the credit card and buy a rescue radio ( or two)

 

[BurnitBlue]

In your own case why do you think you would call for help if your boat was still sound? A sound boat and abject tiredness are not in my mind reasons to call for help in the ocean.

I didn't think of rescue at the time because I had no means of asking for it. Thank goodness. Only in retrospect do I think I would have called for help had I had the means to do so. Don't underestimate exhaustion and worry.

Looking back and comparing my experience with others who have been in a similar situation, I think it is because we don't have a crystal ball so we cannot predict if the situation will worsen to the point when we will be overcome so we make the call. Experience of getting through these situations kind of gives us our own personal crystal ball which help+s to put the situation in perspective. I'm not sure that this is the answer, but experience of being there before may give the confidance to see it through.

I guess what I am saying is that I would have no problem carrying SSB or EPIRB in the future.

 

[Searush]

An interesting observation. People who survive traumatic survival experiences can be more at risk of death when rescued. Its as if whatever energy they drew on to stay alive is released once in the safe hands of a rescuer.

(snip)

In the late 40's early 50's, Dr Alain Bombard was intrigued by how many French fishermen died when their ships got in trouble close to shore or rescue. That's when he decied to do his rubber dinghy voyages with no food & water. He ended up crossing the Atlantic in an inflatable living off the sea. Read "The Bombard Story".

His medical understanding enabled him to drink limited amounts of sea water & urine to stay alive & to know what bits of raw fish were best for him. He concluded that the main cause of death was indeed simply "giving up".

 

[AntarcticPilot]

It is often the case that the people give up before the boat does. As has often been said, 'you're an amateur, the boat is a professional'

How many times have we seen boats abandoned by their crew turn up days or weeks later, still afloat. For example about 3 years ago two ARC boats were abandoned and turned up later after drifting to the West Indies unmanned. Richard Woods' Eclipse was found still afloat months later.

In the days when we didn't have radios there wasn't the temptation to give up. I remember finding myself singlehanded for the first time in mid channel with 'Force 10 imminent' forecast. If I'd had a radio I might have called for help then.

The Trimaran "Great American" was capsized and then flipped the right way up again in waves 400 miles WEST of Cape Horn. The crew were picked up by a cargo vessel, and the trimaran abandoned. The Great American was finally wrecked ( apparently more or less in one piece) on South Georgia - about 1000 miles EAST of Cape Horn. I don't blame the crew for abandoning - the vessel was uninhabitable, full of water and without motive power - but she would certainly have been a better bet than a life-raft, in the absence of a cargo vessel being able to take the crew off.

 

[machurley22]

I don't blame the crew for abandoning - the vessel was uninhabitable, full of water and without motive power - but she would certainly have been a better bet than a life-raft, in the absence of a cargo vessel being able to take the crew off.

I don't disagree with the analysis in your final sentence Paul but had this happened sixty years earlier and had the Great American been crewed by the likes of Miles and Beryl Smeeton and John Guzzwell you can bet they would have had the neccessary skills, spares and tools aboard ( and the will) to make her habitable again, raise a jury rig and bring her into port - or die like ladies and gentlemen.

Personally, although I hope I never have to use it for a Mayday, I'm happy to have the wireless aboard.

 

[HoratioHB]

I was in Grenada last year and a really nice German guy called Nobby, who lived on his boat in Hog Island, told and astounding story about being flipped over in a trimaran off Finisterre in a storm. Four of them spent 24 hours on the upturned hulls in atrocious conditions. In the end they broke through one of the hulls and risked sinking to get the EPIRB. As soon as it was activated they were rescued within half an hour. The point he was making was that one of the crew was a girl and he owed his life to her as she kept the others going. He was quite ready to give up but her positive attitude was what saved them - not the EPIRB. All this said in a matter of fact voice over a few beers.
It confirms what we were always taught in the Navy - that a positive attitude is one of the most important aspects to survival. If you mentally give up you're lost.

 

[silver-fox]

Blue Two puts his finger firmly on the issue that most of us face, namely the crew is weaker than the boat. In what heavy weather I have been in, I have at various times been stupified by tiredness or/and sea sickness whilst the boat has been handling the weather.

The problem is how to survive, protect the boat whilst preserving and the crew's energy and well being.

I have not had to use it yet, but the reports that I have read about the development and subsequent use of the Jordan Series Drogue mean that I have selected this as my preferred approach to severe conditions where sea room permits. It meets the twin objectives of keeping the boat safe whilst allowing the crew to shelter and rest.

I believe the deal is that when we go sailing we are independent and responsible for ourselves and I would like to think that I have the resolve and ingenuity not to call for help unnecessarily and the judgement not to leave it to late.

But of course I am warm and dry as I type this and not weak, cold, seasick, tired and frightened.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I don't disagree with the analysis in your final sentence Paul but had this happened sixty years earlier and had the Great American been crewed by the likes of Miles and Beryl Smeeton and John Guzzwell you can bet they would have had the neccessary skills, spares and tools aboard ( and the will) to make her habitable again, raise a jury rig and bring her into port - or die like ladies and gentlemen.

Personally, although I hope I never have to use it for a Mayday, I'm happy to have the wireless aboard.

I sail a GRP boat, so this is not a pointed comment in any way! But 60 years ago, boats were mainly made of wood, which is repairable under "primitive" conditions with hand tools, and repairs are load bearing immediately they are made. With GRP or and even more so for more advanced composites, isn't part of the problem that no matter how skilled you are, the repairs can't be done without a modicum of control over the environment, and that there is a lengthy curing time before repairs are load-bearing?

 

[SAWDOC]

Best thread I have read on here in yonks - compliments to the OP!!

 

[silver-fox]

I sail a GRP boat, so this is not a pointed comment in any way! But 60 years ago, boats were mainly made of wood, which is repairable under "primitive" conditions with hand tools, and repairs are load bearing immediately they are made. With GRP or and even more so for more advanced composites, isn't part of the problem that no matter how skilled you are, the repairs can't be done without a modicum of control over the environment, and that there is a lengthy curing time before repairs are load-bearing?

Antarctic Pilot you also introduce the flip side of modern boats which is that the upside of modern materials can be stronger than traditional and its a rare day that cruising boats founder and sink under the crew. (I say cruising boats to exclude extreme racing designs where keels have been know to fall off etc)

Boats are stronger but crews remain the same!

 

[whipper_snapper]

Excellent responses to an excellent post.


I have never called a mayday or a panpan. I have had plenty of short term 'battles' in difficult conditions. But for what its worth, the most dangerous situation I have been in for a sustained time was 1,000 miles from any kind of shelter in a boat which, to put it mildly, had structural issues. We had a life raft and we had an EPIRP. I thought that there was a distinct risk of the boat (a cat) literally disintegrating.

We discussed what we would do if that happened. But we never for one instant considered giving up and calling for help. I was in SSB contact with the shore and was quite hesitant to explain the seriousness in case someone on shore panicked. In the end I did outline our situation to the shore contact for the EPIRP, which I think was the right thing to do so that there would be more chance of a sensible response to an epirb activation.

But we simply got down to it and brought the boat home by sheer dumb determination. I had a fantastic crew, all very inexperienced which I think in a strange way helped, they just assumed that this was all normal and kept patching the boat with every bit of string and gaffer tape we had. It was very tiring, conditions were uncomfortable, lots of wind from the wrong directions and swells from every direction, we had no engine or autopilot. The biggest problem I had was getting enough sleep in between stints on the wheel, managing the boat and eating. The terrible noises from the boat's structure did not help. It took 3 weeks to get to safety, but by the time we arrived we were in a routine and could probably have carried on for longer.


I do think that too many people expect their boat to perform like their car. Boats break all the time, even the best most professionally run sailing boat always has a list of failures and problems as long as your arm. The culture of fixing these 'on the run' seems to be vanishing. I used to aim to end a voyage with the boat in better condition than when I set out.

 

[oldharry]

IIRC some of those lost in the 1979 Fastnet race had abandoned their boats and taken to liferafts, but their boats were subsequently found still afloat.

 

[JunkMing]

A subject close to my heart, on which I have written extensively.

See : http://www.thesimplesailor.com/articles.html

May 2009 - Fear Can Cost a Packet
and
September 2008 - Safety At Sea - A Radical Approach

I'd copy them here but they are a bit long!

 

[snowleopard]

IIRC some of those lost in the 1979 Fastnet race had abandoned their boats and taken to liferafts, but their boats were subsequently found still afloat.

Which finally put to bed the old myth that once you got in the liferaft you were safe and just had to wait for rescue.