Malo anchor setup query

[Caladh]

Any Malo owners - please join our Malo Owners Facebook group for information about our boats ! Thanks.

 

[[2574]]

Hi did you succeed with the vulcan anchor on your malo. Have you any pictures? I have a malo 37 with 15kg ss bruce and just 45m of 8mm chain. I dong have much confidence in the anchor but to avoid needing to change things st the bow stem am firstly upgrading the chain to 50m of MF “solid zinc” 10mm chain. Am hoping the additional weight will help the anchor setting and staying set. My anchor does not sit in a stem slot. I am sure I could fashion something if needed. Did the vulcan fit well ? Are you pleased with its performance?

Reading other threads the slog width on the Malos at 55mm limits swivel choice. I have been impressed with the build of mantus s2 but reckon it will jam in the slot. Has anyone any experience? The kong swivel looks well made but I am concerned about pins falling out !
Please all ignore the wrong anchor shackle fitting and type in photo. It is changed to a bow type now and fitted with bow through anchor to allow articulation.

Here are a few photos that might help:

1) Vulcan 25kg in the slot:



2) We carry a Mantus M2 as a spare main bow anchor, it also fits fine, this is a 30kg M2



3) The profile of the Vulcan and the M2 are very similar and therefore both fit in a similar manner:



4) Ultra anchor connector - the only connector that I could find that would fit through the Malo slot and maintain the WLL of the G70 8mm chain was the ultra (at not inconsiderable expense!), it fits well and has not jambed on me yet.



Without wishing to turn this in to an anchor debate - we have found the Vulcan to be far superior to the previous anchor - but we had a Lewmar Claw stainless 30kg, it is not precisely the same design as the original Bruce and I don't believe it was anywhere near as good. It had a very thick stainless steel fluke which simply didn't set the anchor well, we had multiple drag events so swapped it out quickly. This past summer we anchored in a full gale for 24hrs at Crinan and was pleased that the Vulcan didn't budge.

 

[doug748]

Hi did you succeed with the vulcan anchor on your malo. Have you any pictures? I have a malo 37 with 15kg ss bruce and just 45m of 8mm chain. I dong have much confidence in the anchor but to avoid needing to change things st the bow stem am firstly upgrading the chain to 50m of MF “solid zinc” 10mm chain. Am hoping the additional weight will help the anchor setting and staying set. My anchor does not sit in a stem slot. I am sure I could fashion something if needed. Did the vulcan fit well ? Are you pleased with its performance?

Reading other threads the slog width on the Malos at 55mm limits swivel choice. I have been impressed with the build of mantus s2 but reckon it will jam in the slot. Has anyone any experience? The kong swivel looks well made but I am concerned about pins falling out !
Please all ignore the wrong anchor shackle fitting and type in photo. It is changed to a bow type now and fitted with bow through anchor to allow articulation.

You seem to have a number of informed alternatives now. Here is part of a new video from Tom Cunliffe that you may not have seen:

Note, your 10mm chain will be a good investment, see TC uses a genuine Bruce and alternatives have been shown to be less effective.

.

 

[seismicsid]

Here are a few photos that might help:

1) Vulcan 25kg in the slot:

View attachment 166262

2) We carry a Mantus M2 as a spare main bow anchor, it also fits fine, this is a 30kg M2

View attachment 166264

3) The profile of the Vulcan and the M2 are very similar and therefore both fit in a similar manner:

View attachment 166265View attachment 166266

4) Ultra anchor connector - the only connector that I could find that would fit through the Malo slot and maintain the WLL of the G70 8mm chain was the ultra (at not inconsiderable expense!), it fits well and has not jambed on me yet.

View attachment 166268

Without wishing to turn this in to an anchor debate - we have found the Vulcan to be far superior to the previous anchor - but we had a Lewmar Claw stainless 30kg, it is not precisely the same design as the original Bruce and I don't believe it was anywhere near as good. It had a very thick stainless steel fluke which simply didn't set the anchor well, we had multiple drag events so swapped it out quickly. This past summer we anchored in a full gale for 24hrs at Crinan and was pleased that the Vulcan didn't budge.

Robih

Thankyou for the pictures. Really useful. When fully retracted have you needed to add a stem tube with slot to stow the anchor away or are you able to simply tension up the chain on the windlass with existing roller both at the bow stem and then inboard at the windlass? With it all tensioned up does the anchor just protrude as shown in your very first photograph And then does it sit securely when underway?
At the moment I intend to stay with the original Bruce 15kg ss anchor and see how the upgraded heavier chain improves matters. -

 

[seismicsid]

I have had a Malö 37, Penguin, for the last 14 years, of which 12 have been in Sweden, Denmark and the Baltic. We anchor a lot in preference to overnighting in harbour, and I have found the Bruce anchor perfectly satisfactory except when the bottom has thick weed - but then again I think few anchors can cope with thick weed. I am not trying to be contentious here (or, heaven forbid!, start another anchor thread) as I know that many new generation anchors are excellent - it's just that the Bruce has always worked OK for me. To the extent that if it sets OK and will hold with some reverse engine I never bother to set an anchor alarm.

I seem to recall that there has been some discussion on the Malö Facebook group about fitting new generation anchors. I think the secret might be to take up the manufacturers' offers of cardboard templates and see what you can get to fit.

The Malö system is a little inconvenient when mooring bow to a buoy (very rare in the Baltic) and it sounds as if it is tricky to change for some patterns of anchor. But against that we have the excellent ease of deployment, windlass tucked away out of the elements, no mud on deck, no snagging of the jib or spinnaker sheets and no stubbing our toes. So on balance I think it's an excellent system. For me at least.

Jbweston

Thankyou for this post. Really really useful comments on the competence of the original system. I am intending to persevere with Bruce 15kg ss anchor for a while yet But using the heavier chain which needed replacing anyway. I totally concur re the pros of the system where the windlass is nicely tucked away and the mud on deck and other sheet snagging issues are avoided.

Thankyou again for your inputs

 

[seismicsid]

Any Malo owners - please join our Malo Owners Facebook group for information about our boats ! Thanks.

Many thanks. Is there a uk link?

 

[Tranona]

You seem to have a number of informed alternatives now. Here is part of a new video from Tom Cunliffe that you may not have seen:

Note, your 10mm chain will be a good investment, see TC uses a genuine Bruce and alternatives have been shown to be less effective.

.

He uses the correct size chain for his boat which is nearly twice the displacement of the Malo 37 and an anchor twice as heavy. Nowhere does he say that heavier chain improves the effectiveness of anchors (which is what the OP is proposing). He anchors mainly in mud and claims his anchor performs well. Nowhere does he claim or provide any evidence that other anchors are less effective. What he does suggest is that other anchors are available and you should do research into what is suitable for your intended use.

If one does that one will find that the Bruce is generally shown to be a poor performer particularly in setting over a wide range of conditions compared for example with the Rocna he mentions as well as most of the other NG anchors.

 

[Tranona]

Robih

Thankyou for the pictures. Really useful. When fully retracted have you needed to add a stem tube with slot to stow the anchor away or are you able to simply tension up the chain on the windlass with existing roller both at the bow stem and then inboard at the windlass? With it all tensioned up does the anchor just protrude as shown in your very first photograph And then does it sit securely when underway?
At the moment I intend to stay with the original Bruce 15kg ss anchor and see how the upgraded heavier chain improves matters. -

Before changing to a heavier chain, you may find reading this useful
petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/catenary.php

author is well regarded and the designer of the original Rocna

 

[[2574]]

Before changing to a heavier chain, you may find reading this useful
petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/catenary.php

author is well regarded and the designer of the original Rocna

Agreed. We use 8mm G70 - 80m of it.

 

[Tranona]

Agreed. We use 8mm G70 - 80m of it.

Much better investment than 50m of G4010m

 

[NormanS]

Can't comment on whether you can fit a better anchor, but there is no advantage in using heavier chain. weight on its own doe not improve either setting or holding.

That is merely your opinion. Might I ask what is the maximum sustained wind speed in which you have been anchored?

 

[doug748]

He uses the correct size chain for his boat which is nearly twice the displacement of the Malo 37 and an anchor twice as heavy. Nowhere does he say that heavier chain improves the effectiveness of anchors (which is what the OP is proposing). He anchors mainly in mud and claims his anchor performs well. Nowhere does he claim or provide any evidence that other anchors are less effective. What he does suggest is that other anchors are available and you should do research into what is suitable for your intended use.

If one does that one will find that the Bruce is generally shown to be a poor performer particularly in setting over a wide range of conditions compared for example with the Rocna he mentions as well as most of the other NG anchors.

The Mason 44 is not "nearly twice the displacement" of the Malo, nowhere near it. However it is irrelevant, the Malo is well into10mm territory, except for light use. I guess the OP has found this out for himself and plans to put it right
It's up to him really. His anchor will work better with 10mm chain, as we all know and he will be aware of the drawbacks. Free lunches are few.

You may not have watched carefully, the whole thrust of Cunliffe's piece commends substantial anchoring gear:

" You may find that what the manufacturer has supplied is a toy town, tooth pick"

"The more cable you let go the safer the boat is"

" My 30kg Bruce and 75m of 10mm chain is the minimum"

"You want something of a decent size"

"Its no good at all to have a piece of toilet chain with a tooth pick on the end..........and expecting it's going to be ok, it's not"

.

 

[[2574]]

The Mason 44 is not "nearly twice the displacement" of the Malo, nowhere near it. However it is irrelevant, the Malo is well into10mm territory, except for light use. I guess the OP has found this out for himself and plans to put it right
It's up to him really. His anchor will work better with 10mm chain, as we all know and he will be aware of the drawbacks. Free lunches are few.

You may not have watched carefully, the whole thrust of Cunliffe's piece commends substantial anchoring gear:

" You may find that what the manufacturer has supplied is a toy town, tooth pick"

"The more cable you let go the safer the boat is"

" My 30kg Bruce and 75m of 10mm chain is the minimum"

"You want something of a decent size"

"Its no good at all to have a piece of toilet chain with a tooth pick on the end..........and expecting it's going to be ok, it's not"

.

Sir Tom, bless him, doesn’t know all of the answers.

 

[Tranona]

Delete duplication

 

[Tranona]

That is merely your opinion. Might I ask what is the maximum sustained wind speed in which you have been anchored?

Why are you asking that? what difference does it make whether it is you or I in the boat as there is plenty of evidence that shows that it is almost impossible to exceed the breaking strain of tested anchor chain. My statement is based on the evidence - not opinion - and the statement was about anchor setting and holding performance (which the OP was concerned about) not about maximum wind strength.

Do a bit of research and discover for yourself.

 

[Tranona]

The Mason 44 is not "nearly twice the displacement" of the Malo, nowhere near it. However it is irrelevant, the Malo is well into10mm territory, except for light use. I guess the OP has found this out for himself and plans to put it right
It's up to him really. His anchor will work better with 10mm chain, as we all know and he will be aware of the drawbacks. Free lunches are few.

You may not have watched carefully, the whole thrust of Cunliffe's piece commends substantial anchoring gear:

" You may find that what the manufacturer has supplied is a toy town, tooth pick"

"The more cable you let go the safer the boat is"

" My 30kg Bruce and 75m of 10mm chain is the minimum"

"You want something of a decent size"

"Its no good at all to have a piece of toilet chain with a tooth pick on the end..........and expecting it's going to be ok, it's not"

.

All in his (humble) opinion. I did watch and listen carefully and he just reels off a load of unsubstantiated claims or dollops of motherhood and apple pie

He claims the displacement of his boat is over 13 tons (sailboatdata gives 12.5 tons) Malo 37 8,2 tonnes. so at least 50% more.

Of course it is up to the owner what chain and anchor he uses but if he does his research (rather than listening to an opinionated old salt) he will find that many manufacturers' sizing charts will have the boat at the top end of the 15kg bottom end of 20kg (and the Mason 44 at 25kg)

As to chain size improving anchor performance, I have asked this question many times on here and nobody has presented any evidence to show that this is the case apart from personal opinion or anecdote.

This is not surprising as such evidence there is (quite a lot actually) from observed real life tests shows exactly the opposite - chain weight has no measurable impact on setting or holding performance.

The claw type anchor (which may not be a genuine Bruce in this case) is almost always the worst performing anchor in the many independent tests that have been carried out (along with the CQR) for both setting and staying set, although its ultimate holding power in mud and sand can be good. Cunliffe's oversize Bruce may perform well as he claims in mud - but I could do the same video (but with my blue ensign to give it more authority!) off Brownsea Island showing the mud clinging to my Epsilon (on 6mm chain) - but what does that mean? and how is that any less valid as support for a recommendation than Cunliffe's?

The OP has a marginal sized poor performing anchor and no amount of heavy chain will change that. It seems that a Vulcan will fit his bow roller arrangement. If he is likely to load his boat heavily and add things above deck like a bimini or an arch, he might consider going up to a 20kg rather than 15. Although that is still well with the strength of 8mm as he is replacing the chain anyway upgrading to G70 as Robih has done is worth thinking about.

 

[Caladh]

Many thanks. Is there a uk link?

Search in FB for Malo Owners -

 

[NormanS]

Why are you asking that? what difference does it make whether it is you or I in the boat as there is plenty of evidence that shows that it is almost impossible to exceed the breaking strain of tested anchor chain. My statement is based on the evidence - not opinion - and the statement was about anchor setting and holding performance (which the OP was concerned about) not about maximum wind strength.

Do a bit of research and discover for yourself.

So as I say, it's merely your opinion.

 

[doug748]

Sir Tom, bless him, doesn’t know all of the answers.

I doubt he would claim to. He does represent an authenticated well of experience though and where it accords with empirical seamanship you have to listen.

Got to beat some bloke rambling on a boating forum and presenting outlandish ideas as fact.

.

 

[Tranona]

So as I say, it's merely your opinion.

No. It is based on various pieces of scientific and empirical work on the subject, much of which I have directed to you in the past. From what I have seen there is nobody in the testing and designing anchors scene (including the well known Scottish anchor guru the late Professor Knox) that has ever suggested that using heavier chain aids anchor performance never mind carrying out any analysis or work to determine if it does have any effect.

You would think that if the solution to a poor performing anchor is increasing the chain size and weight chain manufacturers would be promoting that fact - but they don't.