MAIB Report Achieve - Talis

[chrishscorp]

Neither vessel were making fog signals.

Such a rare event to hear fog signals from other vessels these days, in my experience.

Suddenly, the C/O and AB saw Achieve emerge from the fog, 30° on the port bow, and, with the aid of binoculars, saw that its wheelhouse was unmanned. He sounded one long blast on the ship’s whistle, using the button on the console to the left of the port radar, then went to the centre console and switched the helm to manual control and put the rudder hard-to-starboard

The lack of sound signals in fog I would agree I have never heard any

 

[fisherman]

While the FV is to blame for inadequate watch keeping, should the Talis have taken earlier action?
She would have if the echo was a container ship size.

 

[Stemar]

I assume that every boat is trying to kill me until I have evidence to the contrary.

Me too. Not long after I started sailing, I read a MAIB report of a coaster chugging up the channel, first mate alone on watch, with a bottle of whisky to keep him company. After a while, he got bored, so he turned off the bridge alarm and went to his cabin to finish the whiskey in peace. The first anyone else knew of this was when the ship steamed full ahead up Dungeness beach. That has coloured my outlook ever since. Fishing boats are like small yappy dogs - totally unpredictable, plus they're unlikely to be looking.

I know most aren't like that, but acting as though they are until I know they aren't works for me.

BTW, to me, left hand down a bit means turning to port.

 

[LittleSister]

While the FV is to blame for inadequate watch keeping, should the Talis have taken earlier action?

Yes. The report specifically says he should have slowed or altered course as soon as he saw a return from ahead, rather than continued while he worked out what it was, or whether it was a false return.

By the time he worked out what it was it was too late, and going too fast, to do anything about it.

 

[Wing Mark]

Cut/paste:
Achieve was detected by the radar on board the bulk carrier at anchor off Tynemouth at a range of
2nm at that time when the fishing vessel’s aspect provided for the weakest radar signal echo reception.

I used to spend more time on deck than in the wheelhouse, but not in fog, I would be glued to the radar, even in the sparsely populated areas in Mts Bay. I had engine and steering controls out on deck, so on deck watch would be adequate in good vis.
I had one serious within 20ft close quarters with a ship, evidently manned bridge, and one 30mts with a 50ft yacht, no one on deck. In the first I was on deck at the forward controls, in the second in the wheelhouse ready to deal with it.

The return at 2nm could have been anything.
IT only became a 'target' way too late.
"At about 1538, Talis’s C/O looked at the starboard radar and observed a target at less than 1nm range, about 30° on the port bow. The C/O reduced the radar range scale to 3nm and checked the automatic "
See also fig 6.
Perhaps if fishing boats had radar reflectors welded to their masts instead of day shapes for trawling, it wouldn't have happened?

 

[Wing Mark]

Yes. The report specifically says he should have slowed or altered course as soon as he saw a return from ahead, rather than continued while he worked out what it was, or whether it was a false return.

By the time he worked out what it was it was too late, and going too fast, to do anything about it.

It doesn't actually say that, it says 'it would have been prudent....'

If ships started weaving all over the ocean for every false blip on the screen, what would be the outcome?
Once ships can't track one another it all gets messy.
There's such a thing as a 'radar assisted collision' I believe?
The return wasn't from dead ahead it was from 30deg off the bow, so required tracking as a target to establish that it was a collision risk.

The ship was doing 8 knots.
That is a lot less than many ships do in fog.

I think maybe people take AIS for granted now and people can only concentrate on so many things at once.
Old fashioned sound signals would have helped, they don't require the recipient to be on task.

What would it cost to equip the FV with an AIS receiver giving a collision risk alarm? few hundred quid?

How easily does a singlehanded yachtsman find himself in the position of the FV?

 

[fisherman]

The return at 2nm could have been anything.
IT only became a 'target' way too late.

The return wasn't 'anything, it was 'something'. Radar training years ago: if there's an echo, there's something there, but if there's no echo it doesn't mean there's nothing there.

 

[PilotWolf]

Neither vessel were making fog signals.

Such a rare event to hear fog signals from other vessels these days, in my experience.

I’ve been subjected to them for hours and hours recently!

W.

 

[Wing Mark]

The return wasn't 'anything, it was 'something'. Radar training years ago: if there's an echo, there's something there, but if there's no echo it doesn't mean there's nothing there.

Big leap from 'something' to 'a vessel'. You still have to gather the tracking data to turn that 'something' into a collision risk?

There is a lot of information missing from the report.
How long was the FV on that track?
How long was the skipper out of the wheelhouse?

It always takes two to collide, a perfect watchkeeper (or big enough team of watchkeepers) could almost always dodge the idiots who aren't looking where they're going, especially with a bit of hindsight.

My guess would be that if you're expecting the majority of small ships to work to a higher standard than Talis, you're at risk of disappointment.

 

[fisherman]

Worse thing is the forward wheelhouse and shelterdeck aft, nil visibility...even in the wheelhouse there's nil viz aft.
Major difference with me was aft wheelhouse, so even if I was working behind it I had the rear window open, and could inspect the instruments and radar from there, but mostly I would be up for'd with vis all round, given a few steps port and stbd. Always took a walk round the deck every 2-3 minutes.

 

[fredrussell]

What surprises me is that a fishing vessel built in 1997 had a wooden hull. Is this normal? I’ve always assumed steel or fibreglass would be material of choice for working boats.

 

[LittleSister]

What surprises me is that a fishing vessel built in 1997 had a wooden hull. Is this normal? I’ve always assumed steel or fibreglass would be material of choice for working boats.

I wondered the same thing.

 

[fisherman]

People still like them. Fine tune design, rather than from stock, and some say they don't roll so much, the material is much heavier. No other reason I can see. I used to step from my 32ft GRP to the similar wood boat along side, the difference was considerable..
Buy if you're going to hit something, no contest.