Looking for a new boat, but feeling stuck..

V1701 said:
In that case I think you could do a lot worse than the Sadler 25 near where you are, looks to be good value & very manageable. Diving kit very handy for the Med when you get there, I have mine on my boat in Greece. There are a lot of very tired boats you just have to keep looking, unfortunately boats aren't treated the same as, e.g. cars where if you were going to see a £15kcar you'd expect it to have been valeted & poilshed, etc. not sure why. In my experience you stand more chance of finding a good one if it's for sale privately, again I'm not sure why. I've bought 4 & sold 2, all privately. Here's a nice one you may not have seen, which was next on my list to see had I not bought:

http://www.red-ensign.com/dehler-duetta-86

Unusual layout that may or may not suit. Here's a couple of links to help with research as well:

http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/archives.htm

http://www.western-horizon.co.uk/archive_boats.php

Good luck...
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This looks really nice actually. The only downside is that there doesn't seem to be much privacy in there (e.g. no cabins?). Also, is it me, or is it quite strange to have two double beds in the middle separated by just a pole?

Cracking boat otherwise.


Tranona said:
That is perhaps because a £15k budget excludes most modern boats in that size range (and also reflects the kind of boats many people here started with).
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Yeah, I was going to say this. I dont really have too much choice for the budget that I have allocated. I could spend a lot more, but it's a first boat so I have to take into account the Risk/Reward ratio of it all.

I just want something simple to learn to sail on and bob up and down the coast and do some cross-channel cruises on with preferably 2 cabins.

I like the Gibsea 282, Beneteau First 305 and the Dufour that I went to see the most so far. The Dufour is by far the cheapest (Was £18.5K, now asking £11K, but broker said that he would probably likely accept £10K, which I think means he would accept £9K), but it needs a new Genoa as its completely shredded up. Still, I maybe able to get a second hand one for not too much. No point splurging out on a brand new one if I don't plan on keeping it for that long. Tons of space in that one too, great head room, sleeps 6 and is setup for easy solo sailing.
 
JollyRodgers said:
This looks really nice actually. The only downside is that there doesn't seem to be much privacy in there (e.g. no cabins?). Also, is it me, or is it quite strange to have two double beds in the middle separated by just a pole?
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It is a bit weird, that's the Germans for you! (Am I allowed to say that?).

This time round for my boat to live on in UK I spent significantly less than my budget, just got something that I like the look of, can be comfortable living on & which is good for fair weather day sailing & the odd longer trip. Because realistically given work constraints & the UK weather, sailing wise she's not going to be used for anything more than that. So it doesn't really matter that the sails aren't new, e.g. In the past I've spent a small fortune on electronics, windvane steering gear, e.g., none of which ever really got used (did help though when I came to sell). I'd suggest that as you know you're only going to keep the first one for a relatively short time not to spend more than you have to to get something you both like & will do what you want it to, which as others have said is pretty much any boat of the sort of size we're discussing. Again repeating what others have said before but I'd save your money for the second one when you'll have a lot better idea what you want. Out of interest which model/year Dufour is it, my new to me boat's a '78 Dufour 29...
 
V1701 said:
It is a bit weird, that's the Germans for you! (Am I allowed to say that?).

This time round for my boat to live on in UK I spent significantly less than my budget, just got something that I like the look of, can be comfortable living on & which is good for fair weather day sailing & the odd longer trip. Because realistically given work constraints & the UK weather, sailing wise she's not going to be used for anything more than that. So it doesn't really matter that the sails aren't new, e.g. In the past I've spent a small fortune on electronics, windvane steering gear, e.g., none of which ever really got used (did help though when I came to sell). I'd suggest that as you know you're only going to keep the first one for a relatively short time not to spend more than you have to to get something you both like & will do what you want it to, which as others have said is pretty much any boat of the sort of size we're discussing. Again repeating what others have said before but I'd save your money for the second one when you'll have a lot better idea what you want. Out of interest which model/year Dufour is it, my new to me boat's a '78 Dufour 29...
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It's a Mezzo 28. In a depressingly faded red. http://www.boatshop24.co.uk/advert/dufour-28-mezzo-southampton/41676381

I've found a nice looking Sadler 32, which appears to be in good condition for sale at a decent price. Sent the broker an email asking what condition all the rigging and sails were in and how old the engine was and how regularly its been serviced etc.

I'm thinking that it maybe better to spend slightly more on a boat because If I bought one for say £9K and need to spend £4K doing it up and then sell it for £7K in 3 years time, it would be worse than if i bought one for £14K and sold it for £12K in a few years.

You're definitely right about all of that. What are you sailing at the moment in the UK then?
 
I would be careful of an Ohlsen. I know 2 people who have sailed Olhsens & they report them to be real pigs to sail. I would suggest that if you go for one you get to sail it first. At least speak to unbiased types who have actually sailed them.
Not all boats actually live up to the legend. It tends to be more rumour than fact I am afraid. & yes I may be wrong as well!!!
 
JollyRodgers said:
It's a Mezzo 28. In a depressingly faded red. http://www.boatshop24.co.uk/advert/dufour-28-mezzo-southampton/41676381

I've found a nice looking Sadler 32, which appears to be in good condition for sale at a decent price. Sent the broker an email asking what condition all the rigging and sails were in and how old the engine was and how regularly its been serviced etc.

I'm thinking that it maybe better to spend slightly more on a boat because If I bought one for say £9K and need to spend £4K doing it up and then sell it for £7K in 3 years time, it would be worse than if i bought one for £14K and sold it for £12K in a few years.

You're definitely right about all of that. What are you sailing at the moment in the UK then?
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There's a Sadler 32 on ebay atm that looks pretty good, in Chichester which might be worth a look if you like them. The Mezzo is very sleek, why some brokers overuse those distorting lenses I don't know, but they have included a nice shot of their office! Not sailing anything in UK, she's out of the water atm, should be going back in mid March. A lot of boats are unrealistically priced for various reasons, not least of which owners basing their asking price on what they paid plus what they've spent, very much a buyers market...
 
Just been reading YM Feb'2015

Theo Stocker tells us of the Verl 900. A 2 cabin yacht with a med length fin by the looks of things.

He's told she will do up to 8knots + ?? :) ....but on the day he says comfortably at 6knots in 10 - 12 knots true.... so no slouch.

see... p.16 - 21 He says prices range from £8 - £18K. Not bad for a decent 30' and a nice size for first boat as prices for everything seem to

go up over 30'. A good size for 1-2 adults for cruising and small family perhaps. O.k. for short term 4 adults at a squeeze?

He suggests early ones maybe a little lighter built and the later ones possibly more suited to offshore.... poss' more seaworthy.

From the photos and specs she looks 'a real yacht' and fairly pretty but lacks a curved shear line e.g. Twister 28'

http://www.boatshop24.co.uk/verl/900

S.
 
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Scotty_Tradewind said:
Just been reading YM Feb'2015

Theo Stocker tells us of the Verl 900. A 2 cabin yacht with a med length fin by the looks of things.

He's told she will do up to 8knots + ?? :) ....but on the day he says comfortably at 6knots in 10 - 12 knots true.... so no slouch.

see... p.16 - 21 He says prices range from £8 - £18K. Not bad for a decent 30' and a nice size for first boat as prices for everything seem to

go up over 30'. A good size for 1-2 adults for cruising and small family perhaps. O.k. for short term 4 adults at a squeeze?

He suggests early ones maybe a little lighter built and the later ones possibly more suited to offshore.... poss' more seaworthy.

From the photos and specs she looks 'a real yacht' and fairly pretty but lacks a curved shear line e.g. Twister 28'

http://www.boatshop24.co.uk/verl/900

S.
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I saw the last one on the list linked to late last year, in IOW. Been sat in boatyard for a few years & showing it but yes liked the design...
 
I'm finding that generally speaking, all the boats in my price range on the market are falling into two categories;

1) Have been on the market for 18 months + and aren't selling because they are literally falling apart, despite the perfect description of how amazing the boat is
2) They are in good condition and well looked after, but are selling within 48 hours, or they are in the most remote locations on the opposite side of the UK

haha. Got a viewing booked on a BK Sadler 32 on Saturday. The owner is being pretty vague and difficult with me, so am interested to see what the general condition of the boat is.

Is boat selling a bit like motorbikes? Only people who are desperate to sell, sell in the off season because they will get a worse price, but when the weather gets warmer (say April onwards) more and more boats go up for sale and generally the better condition ones because the sellers know that they will get a better price for them?

I always used to buy in winter and sell in late Spring with my bikes. Always worked out well.
 
Twister_Ken said:
Two people easily, four at a squeeze. Will cross the Channel and carry on to Cape Horn. Can't think of a better first boat, and knowledgable folk will congratulate you on her good looks and making a wise choice. Supportive owner's association as well...

http://www.twister.org.uk/sales/index.php
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The Twister is a great boat, but don't get a composite one (wooden topsides) - they leak and have problems when they get older. I find them a bit dark and dingy inside compared to more modern designs, but I have seen this rectified with judicious use of white paint.

- W
 
JollyRodgers said:
I'm finding that generally speaking, all the boats in my price range on the market are falling into two categories;

1) Have been on the market for 18 months + and aren't selling because they are literally falling apart, despite the perfect description of how amazing the boat is
2) They are in good condition and well looked after, but are selling within 48 hours, or they are in the most remote locations on the opposite side of the UK

haha. Got a viewing booked on a BK Sadler 32 on Saturday. The owner is being pretty vague and difficult with me, so am interested to see what the general condition of the boat is.

Is boat selling a bit like motorbikes? Only people who are desperate to sell, sell in the off season because they will get a worse price, but when the weather gets warmer (say April onwards) more and more boats go up for sale and generally the better condition ones because the sellers know that they will get a better price for them?

I always used to buy in winter and sell in late Spring with my bikes. Always worked out well.
Click to expand...

Reasonable assessment of the current market. In the past there was a tendency to move up the ladder so the market was much more active. Boats were more commonly in ready to go condition. However the market is contracting with few new people coming in so people hang onto old boats until they start to fall apart and then decide to get out. Hence the old neglected boats in poor condition.

However, there are good boats around and the asking prices are not hugely different from the wrecks, but you can't be too fussy about particular models. As you have discovered most boats are capable of being good starter boats so go for condition first and specific model then location as priorities.
 
Tranona said:
Reasonable assessment of the current market. In the past there was a tendency to move up the ladder so the market was much more active. Boats were more commonly in ready to go condition. However the market is contracting with few new people coming in so people hang onto old boats until they start to fall apart and then decide to get out. Hence the old neglected boats in poor condition.

However, there are good boats around and the asking prices are not hugely different from the wrecks, but you can't be too fussy about particular models. As you have discovered most boats are capable of being good starter boats so go for condition first and specific model then location as priorities.
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Yeah, definitely seems the way to do it. I can deal with poor cosmetic condition on the inside, as that can be fixed pretty cheaply and easily. I'm really looking for a solid engine/rigging/sails and rudder.
 
JollyRodgers said:
I'm really looking for a solid engine/rigging/sails and rudder.
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I agree with engine and rudder and partially with sails. You don't want a major job in the first few years, especially an engine replacement. You'll probably replace the running rigging bit by bit anyway, so no big deal if it is shabby. If not racing, you can buy second hand sails if the old sails are really shot. Consider standing rigging < 10 years old a bonus. Try to make sure there's enough electronics/instrumentation to get by, because they will be expensive to replace. You'll want to make sure you won't have to replace the mast/boom in the near future.
 
lpdsn said:
I agree with engine and rudder and partially with sails. You don't want a major job in the first few years, especially an engine replacement. You'll probably replace the running rigging bit by bit anyway, so no big deal if it is shabby. If not racing, you can buy second hand sails if the old sails are really shot. Consider standing rigging < 10 years old a bonus. Try to make sure there's enough electronics/instrumentation to get by, because they will be expensive to replace. You'll want to make sure you won't have to replace the mast/boom in the near future.
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Yeah, with regards to electronics/instruments I'm really just making sure that they work and that they are easy to read. I honestly don't plan on owning the boat longer than 3 years or so before upgrading, so I dont want to be throwing a ton of money away on things to be honest. Hopefully the boat on Saturday is as good as the description and I can enjoy the fun part :)
 
JollyRodgers said:
Yeah, with regards to electronics/instruments I'm really just making sure that they work and that they are easy to read. I honestly don't plan on owning the boat longer than 3 years or so before upgrading, so I dont want to be throwing a ton of money away on things to be honest. Hopefully the boat on Saturday is as good as the description and I can enjoy the fun part :)
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Good luck on Saturday - and let us know how you get on.

With regard to electronics etc, for the first five years of owning my boat from 2007, I only had a speed and depth log, a non-DSC VHF and a fixed GPS. My sailing-trim improved no end by just using the windex and sail tell-tales, and my nav remained traditional throughout.

I subsequently fitted a separate radar and a chartplotter interfaced to an AIS-enabled VHF - mainly because I found I was getting too close to big metal mothers in the Channel, and planning on cruising amongst large rocks and big tides on the North Brittany coast single - single or short-handed! But, having the trad nav well bedded down, I still use it as a matter of course.
 
Babylon said:
Good luck on Saturday - and let us know how you get on.

With regard to electronics etc, for the first five years of owning my boat from 2007, I only had a speed and depth log, a non-DSC VHF and a fixed GPS. My sailing-trim improved no end by just using the windex and sail tell-tales, and my nav remained traditional throughout.

I subsequently fitted a separate radar and a chartplotter interfaced to an AIS-enabled VHF - mainly because I found I was getting too close to big metal mothers in the Channel, and planning on cruising amongst large rocks and big tides on the North Brittany coast single - single or short-handed! But, having the trad nav well bedded down, I still use it as a matter of course.
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Thanks for that. I'm happy that i've now managed to book in a viewing with the owner. Was almost getting the impression that he didn't want to sell it! :S

As far as electronics go on the boat, it says it has the following;

Shore-Lines compact RT Marine VHF radio
Garmin GPS 76 with Clipper console mounted GPS repeater
Clipper console mounted echo sounder
Clipper console mounted speed and distance log
Clipper console mounted wind speed and direction indicator
Separate NASA target echo sounder
Autohelm 2000 tiller pilot
Navtex Pro
Eberspacher diesel air heater (2001)
Beta Marine 28hp Diesel engine (2002) - fully refurbished a couple of years ago
Solar battery charger
Magellan GPS satellite navigator
JRC 1500 Radar

To be honest, I'm probably going to get Satellite Internet registered through my company and I can get it for around £25 ex VAT a month for 30mbps. Will probably see if I can hook up my phone and iPad and do navigating that way if the GPS is ancient and black and white. I could also probably figure out where I am and where I am going juding by the coastline (not saying that I'm not going to both navigating properly though!). I just want to make sure I dont sail over a massive reef or something haha.

What i am TRYING to say is, that I'm not looking at dumping big money on navigating equipment if;
A) What is listed above already works and is easy to read
B) If I plan on upgrading boat in a few years
 
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