Looking for a new boat, but feeling stuck..

[doug748]

Here is an affordable Gibsea:

http://www.harbouryachts.co.uk/boat.php?stock_id=SEKP 1306&boat=Gib'sea-30

 

[Babylon]

Re electrics and 240v at sea, a simple solution is to use an inexpensive small inverter (about the size of a large square shoe) which crocodile-clips onto the domestic batteries at one end, and has a domestic 240 socket at the other. Mine is strapped down just above the battery compartment, and I only use it to recharge the laptop and/or the Roberts radio batteries when cruising away from marinas.

I've got a bigger than standard alternator to quickly push the amps back into the batteries when under power, two 110Ah domestic batteries plus a separate engine start battery, so plenty of capacity for a small boat! I fitted a good wind-generator, which means batts are always fully charged when I get down to the boat, and which keeps good pace with my consumption when cruising under sail. I also changed all the festoon cabin bulbs to warm-white LED's which saves 90% of current draw, etc. As Ken says, its a give-and-take equation between supply and usage.

When there is shore-power, I simply plug in a 7amp portable smart-charger to the 240 mains and croc-clip the other end onto the batteries and they're up to full overnight. A 4-gang extension also allows me to also run 240v appliances, like an Argos £10 fan-heater in winter and an electric kettle.

So, lots of solutions - enjoy the learning curve!

 

[V1701]

Don't be surprised if it's not what you're expecting, be pleasantly surprised if it is. There are lots of owners who are frankly deluded if they really think they're going to get close to what they're asking. I've been to see dozens of boats & most are a disappointment but it's wonderful when you come across a properly looked after boat. If it's a Sadler 32 you want & there's loads for sale go & see them all & I wouldn't worry unduly about whether you might miss one if you carry on looking. That's pretty unlikely unless it's truly exceptional & from what you've said I doubt this one's going to be...

 

[JollyRodgers]

Here is an affordable Gibsea:

http://www.harbouryachts.co.uk/boat.php?stock_id=SEKP 1306&boat=Gib'sea-30

That looks pretty!

Don't be surprised if it's not what you're expecting, be pleasantly surprised if it is. There are lots of owners who are frankly deluded if they really think they're going to get close to what they're asking. I've been to see dozens of boats & most are a disappointment but it's wonderful when you come across a properly looked after boat. If it's a Sadler 32 you want & there's loads for sale go & see them all & I wouldn't worry unduly about whether you might miss one if you carry on looking. That's pretty unlikely unless it's truly exceptional & from what you've said I doubt this one's going to be...

Some issues;

The Eberspacher diesel air heater wasn't working. He said he hasnt looked at it himself, nor has he had anyone look at it. Could be a simple fuse gone, or could be something more expensive.

The Antifouling hasn't been done yet (seems most boats at this time of year havent either, so although something to take into account, not something that puts me off much)

He said that the windspeed at the top of the Mast wasn't reading correctly, again doesnt know why, but would suggest taking down the mast and fixing it or getting someone up in a chair to look at it.

Couple of gel coat patches need doing on the hull. Only a couple and they weren't any bigger than 3x2 inches or so.

Engine has been serviced every year since It was boat in 1980 (His Mother was the first and only owner). Although it hasnt been done since March 2014 - mind you most other boats ive been looking at havent been looked at for a few years and the GibSea above hasnt been checked since 2010.

He said that there is a problem with the Prop Shaft too, he's pretty sure its a couple of bearing that have gone. The boat still turns over fine and the motor works, but would suggest getting that looked at. He didn't really know much more than that.

Sails were all in good condition and have been sent off every year to be checked over, so no problems there, although I didnt get them all out and inspect them because it was snowing pretty hard and around -1c



I'm just trying to gauge how expensive it will be to put everything that is wrong, right. Main concern is the Prop Shaft, Wind indicator and the Heater, although as we have said before in this thread, can always use an electric heater so it's not vitally important that it gets fixed to be honest - although I would like it fixed ideally. I'm just trying to workout the costs of things so that I can figure out whether or not it will still be a sensible purchase, or if it's worth ignoring completely.


Also worth mentioning that the bits I have listed above are the bits that I have either asked him about or he has told me about, so a survey may bring up some more questionable things. I have a lot of friends who are electricians/plumbers/engineers/mechanics and general handy men, so I'm sure I could also get them to help out with things.

I can't remember what the bit at the top is called that actually reads the wind speed and director, as this is the part that doesnt work, not the indicator. I just thought I would check up the cost of a replacement for the indicator reader (above) just incase that is gone instead or as well and it's pretty cheap.

RE: prop shaft. I figured it would be worth trying to find out how much a brand new prop shaft+installation would cost, as i'd rather prepare for the worst if he isnt 100% sure its just the bearings. Anyone here know how much either of those should cost?

What are your general thoughts regarding this? The interior was in really good condition, well there were no problems with it at least. Do you think after I have figured out the costs and knocked him down on the asking price? Or avoid it and try to find a boat that has less things wrong with it. I know that for the budget I have allocated and the age of the boats I am looking at, i wont be finding anything in brand new condition.

Many thanks,

Alex

 

[Babylon]

A two-owner Sadler 32 with minor issues for circa £12,500? Based on your spec for a first boat, I'd say this is pretty good - and, being sizeable enough, you might well keep it longer than just a couple of years.

Consolidate your offer - subject to survey and get him to ask the yard to quote for drawing the prop-shaft and dealing with the issue (stern-gland? cutlass-bearing?); whatever it is, it isn't going to be hideous and your offer can reflect this - split the difference? I wouldn't worry too much about the minor items like the Eber heating or the windspeed thingy. Get a boat that's good to go and deal with the little things over time.

At the end of the day, you'll know when you've found the right boat... or you'll know after you've turned it down to go look at others and find it sold when you go back!

EDIT: I'm not in the market for a Sadler, so PM me with a link to the broker's site if you want, and I'll be happy to give you a slightly more informed gut-reaction.

 

[V1701]

Hi Alex,

Pleased it was better than expected. Do you know the age of standing rigging? I wouldn't worry at all about the NASA Clipper Windspeed/Direction, maybe remove it & sell it on ebay for spares unless it's an obvious fix. Their masthead units are a bit renowned for being problematic. Install a Windex instead if there isn't one already would be my suggestion. I'm not sure how much attention would be paid to the prop shaft by a surveyor, they don't look beyond the very obvious with the engine, e.g. & they'd only check if it's easily accessible which is unlikely. It may be that there's too much play in the cutless bearing causing some vibration, you can check this yourself by gripping the propeller & seeing if the shaft moves within the bearing. Surveyor should also check this, ask for recommendations for a surveyor on here if you plan to use one. There really should be no appreciable play but a little bit is quite common. You could maybe also get a straight edge & check that the shaft is straight & true. It's probably unlikely that a whole new propshaft would be required.

Eberspacher's often seem not to be working on boats, I've had one & personally don't like them. I found it expensive to run, noisy, needed more electrical power to run than you might think which kind of defeated the object of a heating system for use without shore power & parts are very expensive. The one I had didn't like to be run for extended periods on low heat setting, it coked up badly but then I was living aboard through the winter. For occasional use I think they're OK but very expensive kit. Other people rave about them though, only my opinion...

 

[V1701]

A two-owner Sadler 32 with minor issues for circa £12,500? Based on your spec for a first boat, I'd say this is pretty good - and, being sizeable enough, you might well keep it longer than just a couple of years!

Consolidate your offer - subject to survey and get him to ask the yard to quote for drawing the prop-shaft and dealing with the issue (stern-gland? cutlass-bearing?); whatever it is, it isn't going to be hideous and your offer should reflect this. I wouldn't worry too much about the minor items like the Eber heating or the windspeed thingy.

Totally agree...

 

[JollyRodgers]

A two-owner Sadler 32 with minor issues for circa £12,500? Based on your spec for a first boat, I'd say this is pretty good - and, being sizeable enough, you might well keep it longer than just a couple of years.

Consolidate your offer - subject to survey and get him to ask the yard to quote for drawing the prop-shaft and dealing with the issue (stern-gland? cutlass-bearing?); whatever it is, it isn't going to be hideous and your offer can reflect this - split the difference? I wouldn't worry too much about the minor items like the Eber heating or the windspeed thingy. Get a boat that's good to go and deal with the little things over time.

At the end of the day, you'll know when you've found the right boat... or you'll know after you've turned it down to go look at others and find it sold when you go back!

EDIT: I'm not in the market for a Sadler, so PM me with a link to the broker's site if you want, and I'll be happy to give you a slightly more informed gut-reaction.

Haha, that made me laugh a lot! I'll send you a PM in a sec with the link. It's being sold privately though. It's a one owner Sadler.

Good to hear that you think it won't be hideously expensive to fix. I was planning on taking into account the problems on my offer, and told him this too. Him and his wife agreed that it would be the sensible thing to do and they would be doing the exact same if they were in my position too. The Eber won't be super important for me to fix. I dont really feel the cold anyway, but would suffice with hot water bottles, electrical heater and wearing more clothes if it was an issue.

What I have noticed, is that all of the boats I have seen so far that have been out of the water, have water (maybe 0.5-1cm) under the floor boards or by the engine bay. All of the owners told me that this is because it has been raining and the boats are tilted ever so slightly forwards so when it rains by the seats near the tiller, it runs into the side storage compartments and runs forwards, but when it's not raining that isnt an issue and when it's in the water, it all goes out of the back exits. Is this normal for a boat this age? I presume that if it's not, then I could always just make sure there is a better seal around the compartment bit on the outside so that water cant get in? Or use a humidifer on the boat and leave it on whilst it is ashore. Just wondering if this is normal or not?

Hi Alex,

Pleased it was better than expected. Do you know the age of standing rigging? I wouldn't worry at all about the NASA Clipper Windspeed/Direction, maybe remove it & sell it on ebay for spares unless it's an obvious fix. Their masthead units are a bit renowned for being problematic. Install a Windex instead if there isn't one already would be my suggestion. I'm not sure how much attention would be paid to the prop shaft by a surveyor, they don't look beyond the very obvious with the engine, e.g. & they'd only check if it's easily accessible which is unlikely. It may be that there's too much play in the cutless bearing causing some vibration, you can check this yourself by gripping the propeller & seeing if the shaft moves within the bearing. Surveyor should also check this, ask for recommendations for a surveyor on here if you plan to use one. There really should be no appreciable play but a little bit is quite common. You could maybe also get a straight edge & check that the shaft is straight & true. It's probably unlikely that a whole new propshaft would be required.

Eberspacher's often seem not to be working on boats, I've had one & personally don't like them. I found it expensive to run, noisy, needed more electrical power to run than you might think which kind of defeated the object of a heating system for use without shore power & parts are very expensive. The one I had didn't like to be run for extended periods on low heat setting, it coked up badly but then I was living aboard through the winter. For occasional use I think they're OK but very expensive kit. Other people rave about them though, only my opinion...

Totally agree...

I don't im afraid, but I will probably be able to find out if i asked the bloke selling it. Good to hear that the windspeed part isn't vitally important - or super expensive. I will look into Windex's in a bit. I was told that the guys doing the pre-purchase boat inspections basically just look at the mast and say "Due to health and safety were not allowed to climb it, but judging from the deck it looks okay" and with the engine they say "were not mechanics, but it looks okay to me" and its all rather vague, as they dont want to be held responsible for them.

Was in a bavaria 30 last night for drinks with some people and they had an Eber. It was like a flipping sauna in there! SO hot! Wasn't noisy at all though from what I remember.

Many thanks!

 

[James_Calvert]

That's really encouraging so far.

On the propshaft, did you grab it and give it a rattle? Would it turn by hand?

Of the things you've mentioned, that could be the only thing of real concern, others you can deal with in slower time or just do without.

 

[JollyRodgers]

That's really encouraging so far.

On the propshaft, did you grab it and give it a rattle? Would it turn by hand?

Of the things you've mentioned, that could be the only thing of real concern, others you can deal with in slower time or just do without.

No I didn't, because to be honest I didn't know what I was looking at, or what to look out for. He opened up the prop (its folding) and i'm pretty sure he spun it around a bit (i'll check with my girlfriend, she has a much better memory than me).

I figured that this would be the biggest concern, especially if I plan on moving it to the marina

It seems like the boat has always been professionally done, as the lady was too old to do it herself.

I've found that I can get £500 free credit from the marina via a referral scheme, which is pretty handy too.

edit; The gf said that he definitely span the prop around and it worked fine. He said that it runs fine in the water and just made a funny sound, which he said he was almost 100 percent sure was the prop shaft bearing that was going. Then his wife said that his brother said it definitely was the bearing.. Who needs a notepad?

 

[James_Calvert]

Funny noise...

Could be, as you've been told, the cutlass bearing inside the p bracket. Relatively easy job, but sometimes, like when I replaced mine, it's the propshaft itself which has taken most of the wear and turns out to need replacing as well. The whole assembly needs to be removed anyway to get at the bearing, so no extra yard labour, just a delay whilst a propshaft is made up to the same pattern as the old. Whilst everything's out, you may find you ought to service/replace the propshaft seal that keeps the water out. Again, not much extra bother, just the cost of the bits.

The other possibilities that occur to me are either that the folding propeller is worn and rattly, and that could be expensive to replace, or that the p bracket itself is a bit loose and needs fixing, this is a yard job and could cost a bit. But no reason to worry about either of these for now, such faults would be obvious when you have the survey and you'd want to get the cost of the work knocked off the price.

Do let us know how you get on, the boat sounds exceptional for the price, and if you are really keen, then an offer subject to survey is the next step.

 

[James_Calvert]

Just spotted your remark about water in the bilges. That's something I'd want to check out. If rainwater has been getting in, you want to know how, and what route it's taken, because there's the potential for some serious damage.

On my Sadler, the bilge under the engine can get water into it via the locker lid underfoot. I wouldn't worry about that, just a question of improving the seals. However on mine, this bilge does not drain into the others under the saloon sole, so if there was water in these, it's got in some other way.

 

[Babylon]

So, woman in her 50's bought the Boat Show boat then had it professionally-maintained for the next 35 years before she got too old to sail, and her non-sailing son is selling. On the surface of things, this sounds very positive - so long as the boat hasn't been unmaintained/neglected in the last year or so - but even that isn't a deal-sinker.

I can't comment on the water in the bilge, but this could have a completely innocuous cause. You'd need to speak to other Sadler 32 owners (see their association website?) on this and any other Sadler-specific issues.

I'm sure the seller would like more than the £12.5k he remembers someone 'offering' (even if he can't remember that it was you), so its a question of sharpening your pencil and making his a firm offer subject to survey and prop-shaft/bearing/etc being resolved at shared cost (or his cost entirely?).

If he decides to accept your improved offer (and a quick internet search shows a lot of older Sadler 32s for sale in a generally depressed old-boat market and in the middle of freezing weather, so this might focus his mind), then arrange for an immediate out-of-water survey (I assume she's out the water?).

An excellent and thorough surveyor, who I've used myself, is Chrissie of this parish, who'll want to look at everything:
Chrissie Davies
Endeavour Yacht Surveyors Ltd
Gosport

 

[JollyRodgers]

Funny noise...

Could be, as you've been told, the cutlass bearing inside the p bracket. Relatively easy job, but sometimes, like when I replaced mine, it's the propshaft itself which has taken most of the wear and turns out to need replacing as well. The whole assembly needs to be removed anyway to get at the bearing, so no extra yard labour, just a delay whilst a propshaft is made up to the same pattern as the old. Whilst everything's out, you may find you ought to service/replace the propshaft seal that keeps the water out. Again, not much extra bother, just the cost of the bits.

The other possibilities that occur to me are either that the folding propeller is worn and rattly, and that could be expensive to replace, or that the p bracket itself is a bit loose and needs fixing, this is a yard job and could cost a bit. But no reason to worry about either of these for now, such faults would be obvious when you have the survey and you'd want to get the cost of the work knocked off the price.

Do let us know how you get on, the boat sounds exceptional for the price, and if you are really keen, then an offer subject to survey is the next step.

Is a whole new propshaft expensive to put in? What sort of figures would it run, 300-500, thousands?

The folding prop looked actually in quite good condition. Looked quite new too. Not sure when it was installed, but presumably in the last 3-5 years I'd imagine but looking at it.

Just spotted your remark about water in the bilges. That's something I'd want to check out. If rainwater has been getting in, you want to know how, and what route it's taken, because there's the potential for some serious damage.

On my Sadler, the bilge under the engine can get water into it via the locker lid underfoot. I wouldn't worry about that, just a question of improving the seals. However on mine, this bilge does not drain into the others under the saloon sole, so if there was water in these, it's got in some other way.

It has been ashore since October, so it can only be rain water or water from where he has been cleaning it (possibly).

There was the most water in the engine bay under the stairs at roughly 0.5-1cm deep. I checked under the other floorboards between the kitchen and the nav desk (bilge?) and there wasn't a puddle or anything there, but it was damp, so presumably water has been in there at some point. It wasn't bone dry. I'm not familar with the layout for the Sadler 32, so not sure where this would be coming in from. Unless it is water from cleaning, or someone standing in wet clothes that has sunk down into it and not ever been mopped up?

The windows werent leaking and looked in decent condition. Perhaps I should've put my finger around the edges and tried to work out if the water was coming in from the deck and how it was getting there. Presumably this would be checked out and should be somewhat easily rectified after survey? At least having the boat out of the water makes it easier to work out where the water is coming in from.

So, woman in her 50's bought the Boat Show boat then had it professionally-maintained for the next 35 years before she got too old to sail, and her non-sailing son is selling. On the surface of things, this sounds very positive - so long as the boat hasn't been unmaintained/neglected in the last year or so - but even that isn't a deal-sinker.

I can't comment on the water in the bilge, but this could have a completely innocuous cause. You'd need to speak to other Sadler 32 owners (see their association website?) on this and any other Sadler-specific issues.

I'm sure the seller would like more than the £12.5k he remembers someone 'offering' (even if he can't remember that it was you), so its a question of sharpening your pencil and making his a firm offer subject to survey and prop-shaft/bearing/etc being resolved at shared cost (or his cost entirely?).

If he decides to accept your improved offer (and a quick internet search shows a lot of older Sadler 32s for sale in a generally depressed old-boat market and in the middle of freezing weather, so this might focus his mind), then arrange for an immediate out-of-water survey (I assume she's out the water?).

An excellent and thorough surveyor, who I've used myself, is Chrissie of this parish, who'll want to look at everything:
Chrissie Davies
Endeavour Yacht Surveyors Ltd
Gosport

Both the Son's sailed the boat and still did up until recently, but the one showing me around said that he has other hobbies and things to do nowadays and his brother is often travelling out of the country and doesnt get the time.

The boat is already out of the water so that makes things a little easier. I'll be sure to give Chrissie a call if an offer gets accepted.

James_Calvert has worried me about the water leaks/dampness now :-(

 

[alahol2]

James_Calvert has worried me about the water leaks/dampness now :-(

Don't be, water can accumulate from drips through the cockpit locker lids. It can also be merely the result of condensation over a couple of weeks. If you had serious leaks in the cabin top you would feel damp upholstery and see signs of corrosion around window frames etc.

 

[V1701]

You can sprinkle talc around where water may be likely to be coming in & it'll show up but that small amount nothing to worry about, it's what bilges are for! It'll smell/feel damp & hit you straight away when you go below if something's not quite right. It's sounding better all the time...

 

[eddystone]

Check water filler and plumbing to and around water tanks under starboard berth for source of water in bilge.
£12.5K for Sadler 32 makes me feel near suicidal as a relatively recent owner!

 

[James_Calvert]

Re water in the bilges, from what you say this particular boat sounds fine. As others have said, the dampness in the bilges is most probably just condensation. I wouldn't worry about what's under the engine, if the under cockpit sole locker lid seals aren't perfect, it will have got in that way. Mine aren't and water can get in just from sluicing the cockpit out with a hose. Rain shouldn't have got in, but if the boat hasn't been levelled fore and aft, it can collect at the front of the cockpit, and test the seals, instead of draining out through the cockpit drains aft.

Re the propshaft, I did the job about 20 years ago, when the cutlass bearing was about £20, the propshaft about £120, the seals about £12, and I also needed a new bronze nut machined to hold the propeller on, I think about £7. So under £200 then for the bits, which I sourced from T Morris Ltd, Isleworth www.tnorrismarine.co.uk

No labour costs because DIY.

 

[James_Calvert]

Check water filler and plumbing to and around water tanks under starboard berth for source of water in bilge.
£12.5K for Sadler 32 makes me feel near suicidal as a relatively recent owner!

Yep, I've had that one too.

I'm a long term owner, the boat cost just under £30k in 1985. Anything less than that is a bargain in my book!

 

[PhillM]

An excellent and thorough surveyor, who I've used myself, is Chrissie of this parish, who'll want to look at everything:
Chrissie Davies
Endeavour Yacht Surveyors Ltd
Gosport

+1 for Chrissie