Lat Flow test needed for Soton Boat show.

[lustyd]

So, suggest you get out of your one liner mode

Quantity of words is not a measure of quality as you demonstrate here. You assume I was talking about freedom within our own borders and the effect of war upon them, but I was talking about freedoms of all involved and the attrocities commited throughout, most of which can be traced back to relatively benign things such as our current situation. Study early Nazi Germany and everything appeared totally reasonable and justified. It always does at the start, and here we are discussing entry requirements to a boat show while students are being denied education under the same flawed logic, with more restrictions and more groups planned. Freedom is a constant battle, not a single win/lose event and allowing the gradual erosion of freedom is how such events start.
I am not wrong about the vaccine approval. The process is long on purpose, and has yet to be completed. We are still finding issues with the various vaccines which previously the pointless phrase "no known side effects" had been used to placate a worried population. No known means exactly what it says, and is the reason we have trials over time, to allow us to find and know about all of the side effects. None of which changes the equation for a young healthy person for whom there is more risk from the vaccine than from the virus, this is widely accepted by scientists and the reason we initially didn't vaccinate the young and why we are still hesitating on that front. It's also the reason we withdrew one of the vaccines for the under 30's since it was deemed a risk not worth taking.

No, it's not onerous to take a test, I do it all the time. The result of that test is personal to me, and of course I would not attend an event if I was ill. It is, however, completely ineffective for the intended purpose and wasting vast and vital funds which the country does not have. The only way to push back on such unnecessary restrictions is to opt out and vote with our feet. Some of us are willing to make sacrifices for the greater good, this one might be a small sacrifice, but every little helps.

 

[Pump-Out]

It is disappointing that some on here try to mock and belittle the arguments put forward by lustd rather than addressing them in a proper fashion.
I can see that the idea of having to have a negative lateral flow test to enter the Southampton boat show is nothing more than virtue signalling and proves nothing. Yet, so many of you seem to approve of this. What have we come to?

Is it not, in effect, the show organisers displaying that they have exercised " a duty of care"? If there is an outbreak at, or because of the show, it won't be their fault, will it? It is because somebody lied or cheated at the entry gate.

Not virtue signalling, ore lawyer signalling.

 

[MikeB.]

Dont forget if you are going to the show this weekend you need to get the test done and registered today/tomorrow

 

[Tranona]

Quantity of words is not a measure of quality as you demonstrate here. You assume I was talking about freedom within our own borders and the effect of war upon them, but I was talking about freedoms of all involved and the attrocities commited throughout, most of which can be traced back to relatively benign things such as our current situation. Study early Nazi Germany and everything appeared totally reasonable and justified. It always does at the start, and here we are discussing entry requirements to a boat show while students are being denied education under the same flawed logic, with more restrictions and more groups planned. Freedom is a constant battle, not a single win/lose event and allowing the gradual erosion of freedom is how such events start.
I am not wrong about the vaccine approval. The process is long on purpose, and has yet to be completed. We are still finding issues with the various vaccines which previously the pointless phrase "no known side effects" had been used to placate a worried population. No known means exactly what it says, and is the reason we have trials over time, to allow us to find and know about all of the side effects. None of which changes the equation for a young healthy person for whom there is more risk from the vaccine than from the virus, this is widely accepted by scientists and the reason we initially didn't vaccinate the young and why we are still hesitating on that front. It's also the reason we withdrew one of the vaccines for the under 30's since it was deemed a risk not worth taking.

No, it's not onerous to take a test, I do it all the time. The result of that test is personal to me, and of course I would not attend an event if I was ill. It is, however, completely ineffective for the intended purpose and wasting vast and vital funds which the country does not have. The only way to push back on such unnecessary restrictions is to opt out and vote with our feet. Some of us are willing to make sacrifices for the greater good, this one might be a small sacrifice, but every little helps.

I am sorry you have so much difficulty in following arguments just because you do not agree with them, but you seem to have no problem in waffling nonsense rather than fact - and your selective reading of history. Freedom in an open society like ours is not an absolute as I tried to point out and as the past 18 months has shown there is ample opportunity to air different views. Because many of them are opposing views it is inevitable that some views get rejected and perhaps your views are in line with many that are rejected, despite ample opportunity to air them. That does not however make them right.

Your second paragraph again is selective. The development of these vaccines is no different from the past and as with earlier vaccines more will be learned about them and their effects and side effects as we go along. It is the nature of the process that results are often inconclusive, or change previous decisions - that is just the nature of the beast. It is up to our politicians to make decisions in such situations, and given that often the "scientists" do not agree this is a matter of judgement. It is a mistake to see this as some kind of conspiracy. Science only develops through the questioning of differing views so it is inevitable that at some point even scientific views get rejected. Your example of the change in policy on under 30's is a prime example of this working, and the current debate on vaccinating under 15s is an example of a finely balanced decision.

Perhaps you ought to recognise the complexity of the decisions being taken with an open mind rather than seeing everything through the lens of a conspiracy.

 

[lustyd]

I view them with an open mind and an education, not conspiracy. I also view them alongside current events. The government has been testing the waters on segregation all year with many examples. It's pushback from people like myself that prevents them gaining traction with such measures.

Government refuses to rule out ban on unvaccinated students returning to university

 

[jordanbasset]

Study early Nazi Germany and everything appeared totally reasonable and justified.

Did you really write that, very quickly after the nazis came to power they banned many political parties and Germany became effectively a one party state. They passed the Enabling Act which enabled them to pass any legislation without opposition, Within a couple of months they passed a law which excluded Jews and the “politically unreliable” from civil service. They also banned Jews from being Lawyers, editors and removed citizenship from naturalised Jews. Are you really saying you consider those measures 'totally reasonable and justified.'?

 

[lustyd]

No, the events leading up to that.

 

[jordanbasset]

No, the events leading up to that.

Can't understand that, before they came to power they could not introduce laws, reasonable or otherwise.
But even if you discount this, right from the early days the Nazi ideology was clear. Mein Kampf set it out and it was full of hatred, especially for Jewish people. I really do not see how you can say that in 'early Nazi Germany ... everything appeared totally reasonable and justified'

 

[lustyd]

Much as I'd love to get into the discussion it's not allowed on the forum so won't

 

[jordanbasset]

Okay, just thought it was a crazy comparison between asking for a LFT to go to a boat show to nazi Germany, there really is no comparison

 

[Tranona]

I view them with an open mind and an education, not conspiracy. I also view them alongside current events. The government has been testing the waters on segregation all year with many examples. It's pushback from people like myself that prevents them gaining traction with such measures.

Government refuses to rule out ban on unvaccinated students returning to university

As do I. However seems to me that we come to different conclusions. What irks me is that you reject mine claiming I do not understand. How can I form an opinion if I do not understand? And what is it about your "understanding" that you think is superior to mine?

As to conspiracy theories, your constant rejection or misrepresentation of facts are hallmarks of conspiracy, as is your reference to misuse of personal data when there is no personal data required that is not already known. It is hardly surprising that you views are those of a very small minority and is a testament to the open nature of our society.

As to government "testing the waters on segregation". It would be disappointing if they were not doing this as there is a strong body of opinion that suggests it could be a viable strategy to curb transmission in specific groups (such as uni students) and therefore allow a return to more normal education. I suspect you will find a very large majority of students would agree with this, just as large numbers of people will take a lateral flow test because they want to go to the boat show.

Would be really interested to know what actions you are taking "that prevents them gaining traction with such measures" and how effective they have been.

 

[lustyd]

I suspect you will find a very large majority of students would agree with this, just as large numbers of people will take a lateral flow test because they want to go to the boat show.

Yes, unfortunately popular opinion often leads to segregation. There are some things we must not leave to a vote for this very reason. There is no evidence that there is excess danger in university from the minority who are unvaccinated, so segregation is completely uncalled for in this instance, it's not a matter for voting.

 

[Hacker]

I think the issue about data is that it is held by a private company not the NHS per se. That being so I’m not sure that (for that company) they already know our data. Certainly the first time I was asked to register the result (at FE college) there was a lot of demographic data being required which I don’t believe they have any right to. That being so, whilst I do LFT weekly I do not register the negative results on their database.

 

[capnsensible]

I asked some sailors what they thought about comparing entering the Southampton Boat Show to Nazi Germany. I got their answer:

 

[Tranona]

Yes, unfortunately popular opinion often leads to segregation. There are some things we must not leave to a vote for this very reason. There is no evidence that there is excess danger in university from the minority who are unvaccinated, so segregation is completely uncalled for in this instance, it's not a matter for voting.

Spoken as a true dictator! Astonishing that you now support non democratic processes just because you can't get your own way yet at the same time criticise our decision makers for making rules, just because you do not agree.

Is your information on students fact or just something else you have plucked out of the air?

The major problem with the current situation is that there are so few hard facts about the spread of the virus, or of means of controlling it - and when things look to be coming clear either new information coming in or the virus changing. Governing in this situation is making decisions based on imperfect information.

Stop digging.

 

[lustyd]

Spoken as a true dictator! Astonishing that you now support non democratic processes just because you can't get your own way yet at the same time criticise our decision makers for making rules, just because you do not agree.

Quite the opposite actually. Consider a scenario where we link up the facts that:

a) black people are less likely to be vaccinated
b) black people are more likely to be infected

Your logic may very well lead us to exclude black people. Hopefully this more obvious example shows the problem, but the problem is the same. Removing the rights of some people because some other people don't like their choices is not OK when the right being removed is an essential thing. This is especially true when removing those rights will make no difference to the outcome. This is not the same as our society deciding that drinking and driving is wrong, for instance. In that case people are still free to drive if they choose not to drink, but they are still free to drink if they choose not to drive. In this case you're stripping a section of society of their rights either to sovereignty of their own body or of their ability to function in society, neither of which is an acceptable option in a civilised society.

 

[dom]

Yes, unfortunately popular opinion often leads to segregation. There are some things we must not leave to a vote for this very reason. There is no evidence that there is excess danger in university from the minority who are unvaccinated, so segregation is completely uncalled for in this instance, it's not a matter for voting.

Who is the 'we' in "we must not leave to a vote....."?

You can't mean the public at large, because 'we' only matter in a democracy.

 

[lustyd]

Who is the 'we' in "we must not leave to a vote....."?

You can't mean the public at large, because 'we' only matter in a democracy.

Don't confuse a democracy with "everything can be voted on". There are some fundamentals that a society must protect in order to function. These are generally known as basic human rights and regardless of what the majority think, they cannot be considered up for debate either for everyone or a subsection of society.

 

[drhufo]

I've just looked at getting tickets for SIBS and they insist on covid test results even if you've had the jab!

 

[longjohnsilver]

I've just looked at getting tickets for SIBS and they insist on covid test results even if you've had the jab!

Yes, free test and register result. Takes a few minutes. No big deal.