Lat Flow test needed for Soton Boat show.

[Blue Sunray]

What is currently happening in the UK is a massive slap in the face to the servicemen and women who have fought for us. Wearing a poppy while actively promoting the loss of that freedom is extremely bad taste so hopefully those in favour of such things will refrain from wearing them.

As a serving member of the armed forces I would like to go on the record as finding that post highly offensive, not that I expect you to actually care a jot about what such people actually think. It's odd how such posts seem to come from never served civis or those who dropped out as soon as things got a little demanding.

You also seem utterly ignorant about the symbology of the Poppy.

 

[capnsensible]

What is currently happening in the UK is a massive slap in the face to the servicemen and women who have fought for us. Wearing a poppy while actively promoting the loss of that freedom is extremely bad taste so hopefully those in favour of such things will refrain from wearing them.

Did you pick that idea up when standing in the NAAFI queue? ???

 

[john_morris_uk]

As a serving member of the armed forces I would like to go on the record as finding that post highly offensive, not that I expect you to actually care a jot about what such people actually think. It's odd how such posts seem to come from never served civis or those who dropped out as soon as things got a little demanding.

You also seem utterly ignorant about the symbology of the Poppy.

I came outside in 2014 and could also easily be offended. But I take the view that his remarks are pure silliness and treat them with the contempt they deserve.

 

[Blue Sunray]

I came outside in 2014 and could also easily be offended. But I take the view that his remarks are pure silliness and treat them with the contempt they deserve.

Always nice to hear your non combatant's point of view.. Given the time of day I suspect he may regret the alcohol/keyboard interface if/when he sobers up in the morning.

 

[Tranona]

You're purposely misreading what I wrote, and you're completely uninterested in the real answers so I'll leave you there, blissful in your ignorance.

given that you have not written anything of any substance how can I possibly have misread you? all you have done is spouted conspiracy theories and said nobody else understands.

That is probably right - nobody seems to know what you are talking about!

 

[lustyd]

Time to stop lusty.

It is bordering on offensive to suggest we no longer remember the fallen in response to some imaginary battle you are fighting.

Some of us find it deeply offensive to watch society forget and descend into the exact same position.

 

[Gary Fox]

 

[Tranona]

Some of us find it deeply offensive to watch society forget and descend into the exact same position.

Can you explain what freedoms you are losing if you take a lateral flow test and report the outcome on the website?

This is a serious question.

 

[lustyd]

Can you explain what freedoms you are losing if you take a lateral flow test and report the outcome on the website?

This is a serious question.

Apparently not to you, no.

 

[dom]

Some of us find it deeply offensive to watch society forget and descend into the exact same position.

The red poppy is a symbol of remembrance and hope for a peaceful future.

It has nothing to do with WWI and WWII if that’s what you mistakenly believe.

Time to put down the magic marmalade, pack up the MI5 kit your mum gave you for Christmas, and get ready for school tomorrow.

 

[lustyd]

The red poppy is a symbol of hope and remembrance for a peaceful future.

It has nothing to do with WWI and WWII if that’s what you mistakenly believe.

Time to put down the magic marmalade, put away the MI5 kit you got for Christmas, and get ready for school tomorrow.

It is to remember the sacrifice our forebears made to allow our way of life. No, it has nothing specifically to do with those wars, but it has everything to do with remembering what was fought for, and continuing to fight for those things in peacetime and in war on their behalf. If we give an inch that is a huge insult to their sacrifice, and the beggining of what comes next. What comes next is more sacrifice. We must not wait until it affects us directly, we need to stand up for every one of our peers or there will be nobody left to stand when we are the next target as put so well by Martin Niemöller

 

[dom]

It is to remember the sacrifice our forebears made to allow our way of life. No, it has nothing specifically to do with those wars, but it has everything to do with remembering what was fought for, and continuing to fight for those things in peacetime and in war on their behalf. If we give an inch that is a huge insult to their sacrifice, and the beggining of what comes next. What comes next is more sacrifice. We must not wait until it affects us directly, we need to stand up for every one of our peers or there will be nobody left to stand when we are the next target as put so well by Martin Niemöller

I saw that episode of Star Trek too.
Don’t worry, the Enterprise survived ?

 

[lustyd]

I saw that episode of Star Trek too.
Don’t worry, the Enterprise survived ?

Yeah compare their sacrifices to tv. Good call

 

[mainsail1]

It is disappointing that some on here try to mock and belittle the arguments put forward by lustd rather than addressing them in a proper fashion.
I can see that the idea of having to have a negative lateral flow test to enter the Southampton boat show is nothing more than virtue signalling and proves nothing. Yet, so many of you seem to approve of this. What have we come to?

 

[Mister E]

It is disappointing that some on here try to mock and belittle the arguments put forward by lustd rather than addressing them in a proper fashion.
I can see that the idea of having to have a negative lateral flow test to enter the Southampton boat show is nothing more than virtue signalling and proves nothing. Yet, so many of you seem to approve of this. What have we come to?

But he has not put anything forward, people are knocking that.
In his ignorance he has not mentioned that you don't need to use any Web site but can phone instead.
He is double jabed ,then encourages others not to be done.
He keeps on about loss of freedom but doesn't say what those are. He claims to be acting on all our behalf without being asked to do so. Then will not say how or what he is doing.
Finally he insults all service personnel.

So you can support him if you want. He is not getting any support from me only contempt.

 

[lustyd]

I've not encouraged anyone not to have the vaccine, I've stood up for those who make the decision not to. These are completely different things and the rabbid "anti-vax" discussion completely ignores the central issue there which most are blinkered to.
I've explained on many occasions the freedoms being affected. If you've chosen not to acknowledge that then that's on you. As Mainsail1 said it's sad that our society isn't even interested in listening to the discussion any more, let alone standing up for our rights. For reference, sovereignty of the body, freedom of movement, equality are all being eroded right now without good reason. Coercing people to accept experimental unapproved treatments is not a good look for a modern society, yet here we are blocking people from getting an education unless they agree to having a vaccine which is yet to be approved for anything but emergency use, and which has known side effects more dangerous to certain groups than the virus.
Others have insulted service personel, I am simply highlighting what we used to fight for and what many have died for, and these are the things I highlighted above. I'm sure that many of those who gave their lives fighting oppressive regimes which experimented on their own citizens, or who used the personal data of those citizens to cause them harm would be outraged by the laissez faire attitudes of the current generation. The entire point of remembrance is "never again", and to ensure that the sacrifice meant something.
History has shown that oppressive regimes seem completely reasonable and justified right up until they don't. The thing they almost all had in common was the abuse of fear and desperationto bring about their changes.

 

[Stemar]

I'm strictly an armchair expert, and I read the first page and this one, so may well have missed something.

However, at the point we're at, those who want the vaccine either have it or can get it. Most children aren't vaccinated, but the risk of problems for them seems to be vanishingly small. It isn't total protection against infection, but is a very good protection against the nasty stuff that puts you in hospital or in their box. That means that anyone at risk of a serious dose of Covid has either chosen to take that risk or is one of a small number of people who can't be vaccinated. The latter, I have enormous sympathy for, but what do they do when there's a particularly nasty round of winter flu? I presume there are precautions they can take; at least Covid's made masks socially acceptable. As for they others, they've made their beds and AFAIAC, they can lie in them. My only concern about them is the burden they are likely to place on the NHS. I know I'm being a bit harsh, but it's a choice they've made

Covid isn't going to go away and medical opinion seems to be heading towards the idea that a level of immunity has been established in most of the population, either through vaccination, infection or both so, in developed countries, it's no longer the killer it was but is, for most people at least, no more than a nuisance, like the dozens of winter viruses that leave us feeling off colour for a few days. If that's the case, surely it's time to stop the panic about it and get on with life, just as we do with the flu. Is it really worth all the hassle in the West? Sending staff home because they were in the same place as someone who had Covid? I can't help thinking that the biggest issue right now isn't Covid, it's the pingademic that's got our supply chain and infrastructure creaking.

By all means keep the research going and the efforts to get the 3rd world vaccinated, but most of all, keep the research going that will prepare us for the next one, because there will be a next one. A virus with the infectivity of the common cold and the mortality of Ebola could go a long way to solving the problems caused by overpopulation, which sounds like a great idea until you discover briefly that you're one of the overs in the population...

 

[mainsail1]

So you can support him if you want. He is not getting any support from me only contempt.

In my opinion, you are absolutely entitled to not give his views any support and strongly argue your case but contempt should not be in the mix. Contempt is a strong word with many unfortunate connotations.

 

[lustyd]

those who want the vaccine either have it or can get it

This isn't necessarily the case, unfortunately. The government has certainly made doses available, and in many locations, but it's not the case that those locations are accessible to everyone, neither is it the case that everyone knows how to go about booking. The demographics show that a large proportion of those unvaccinated cannot afford to attend a vaccination centre either due to time or money constraints. A large proportion are non-natives who will have varying reasons for not having been able to attend. I'm sure there is also a small proportion who have been misled by misinformation and who refuse it, alongside a small proportion who have weighed up the risks and chosen not to for perfectly reasonable reasons.
Unfortunately that doesn't make good copy, so all we get is the us vs them anti-vax rhetoric designed to drive ad revenue and fuel hate. Sadly, it's working.

 

[Tranona]

I've not encouraged anyone not to have the vaccine, I've stood up for those who make the decision not to. These are completely different things and the rabbid "anti-vax" discussion completely ignores the central issue there which most are blinkered to.
I've explained on many occasions the freedoms being affected. If you've chosen not to acknowledge that then that's on you. As Mainsail1 said it's sad that our society isn't even interested in listening to the discussion any more, let alone standing up for our rights. For reference, sovereignty of the body, freedom of movement, equality are all being eroded right now without good reason. Coercing people to accept experimental unapproved treatments is not a good look for a modern society, yet here we are blocking people from getting an education unless they agree to having a vaccine which is yet to be approved for anything but emergency use, and which has known side effects more dangerous to certain groups than the virus.
Others have insulted service personel, I am simply highlighting what we used to fight for and what many have died for, and these are the things I highlighted above. I'm sure that many of those who gave their lives fighting oppressive regimes which experimented on their own citizens, or who used the personal data of those citizens to cause them harm would be outraged by the laissez faire attitudes of the current generation. The entire point of remembrance is "never again", and to ensure that the sacrifice meant something.
History has shown that oppressive regimes seem completely reasonable and justified right up until they don't. The thing they almost all had in common was the abuse of fear and desperationto bring about their changes.

What makes you think I am not aware of these arguments - after all I read the Daily Telegraph! However I am also able to assess the importance of the arguments and make up my own mind as to their validity, and some indeed have merit. However, your bringing in the sacrifices made by our ancestors in support of our freedoms shows a misreading of the facts of history, certainly in relation to the 2 world wars. The loss of freedom during those periods by the population as a whole were far greater than anything happening today. Conscription, rationing, compulsory ID cards, evacuation of children , compulsory internment without trial and so on, all deemed necessary in the fight, and all progressively removed once they no longer served a purpose. The same will happen this time as our society is strong enough still to ensure that happens.

You are wrong about the safety of vaccines and your understanding of the meaning of "emergency" in this context. The word is just a social construct from the EU to describe the part of the EU approval system that allows individual states to individually approve treatments. It does NOT mean that the approval process itself is any less rigorous. It shortens the time to approval through the acceleration of the trials process and the concurrent rather than sequential analysis and reporting of results. Very proven methods that have been used in other industries such as the motor industry for many years (indeed I used to teach about the process over 30 years ago when communications technology was beginning to make it possible). One of the positive things that will come out of the Covid experience will be a big leap in the processes for developing and assessing new treatments for a wide range of medical conditions, just as WWII resulted in step changes in developing industrial and manufacturing processes.

I have a great deal of sympathy for the arguments against compulsory vaccination and testing and the use of certification to gain access to places or services. However there is nothing new about this and there are strong arguments in favour of compulsion in certain circumstances, just as there has been in the past. It is always a matter of proportionality and judgement - to use your own term "good reason". This brings us back to the subject of this thread. Again I rather resent having to do a test, but more on the grounds of why? for this particular event. 3 weeks ago I went to the Motor Show at Farnborough airport, like the boat show an indoor/outdoor event and no tests were required - so why at Southampton?

However, I have no influence on the decision so the only action I can take if I want to go is to take the test, but first make my own judgement as to whether I am prepared to do this. So, unlike you I investigated what is required - although I sort of knew because my daughter is a school teacher and my grandaughter a student at Southampton uni who took part in the trials last year. What could be simpler. Collect test kit from Boots (or get next day delivery at home). Simple non invasive test, quick result, enter basic information and result on a website, then a text and email confirming result. OK a bit of a farce because it is self declaration and there are questions about the reliability of the test, but is this any form of attack on fundamental freedoms? only maybe for the paranoid.

So, suggest you get out of your one liner mode and actually answer the questions, and maybe recognise that others have the ability to find out things for themselves, work out the impact of actions and decide their own response.