Laminate Sails

[dralex]

I see from a small discussion last year that some people were thinking of laminate cruising sails. I am in the process of researching the replacement for the current Tesco carrier bag on the bow of my boat and have had a couple of quotes and also seen a few reviews of cruising laminates. Have people been impressed and do they improve upwind performance in the real world. I don't really race. but like sailing as fast and efficiently as possible and try to ignore the engine. There is a current article by Richard Woods in one of the magazines- tried putting Dacron sails back on , but went straight back to the laminates. Opinions greatly appreciated.

<hr width=100% size=1>Life's too short- do it now.

 

[extravert]

The problem with racing laminates, which are often Mylar film based with extra strengthening stuff glued on or laminated in, is sail life. They don't stretch much over their life, but when they fail, they tend to fail dramatically and terminally. This may happen in only 2 or 3 years when cruising. Sails like Tape Drive laminates are very difficult to do an effective repair, and so end up being made into bags.

To get the benefit of low stretch laminates in a cruising sail though, there are some fabrics that are a combination of a low stretch mesh sandwiched between light Dacron cloth. An example is Pentex Diax from Bainbridge. This gives the combined benefit of low stretch and longevity. It is suitable for making into a tri-radial sail as well. The downside is that it is slightly heavier and more expensive than plain Dacron, and creases if folded.

Bainbridge can be found <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.sail-making.com/sailMaking.asp>here</A>.

<hr width=100% size=1>One day, I want to be a real sailor. In the mean time I'll just keep tri-ing.

 

[dralex]

I'm specifically interested in the cruising laminates that are advertised- apparently they are a bit more durable than racing laminates, but tend to keep a better sail shape, especially in stronger winds and going to windward. Interestingly a Dacron furling genoa for my boat would be about £1100, while a Hyde tri radial cruising laminate would be about £1500.

<hr width=100% size=1>Life's too short- do it now.

 

[extravert]

The sailcloth I mentioned (Bainbridge Diax) is a performance cruising laminate, and sounds like what you want...

It's more durable than racing laminate
It keeps its shape better than Dacron in a blow and over time
It's better at going to windward than a crosscut Dacron

The price differential sounds about right. The sailcloth is more expensive, and more labour time is required to make a tri-radial than a crosscut, lots more seams to sew you see.

<hr width=100% size=1>One day, I want to be a real sailor. In the mean time I'll just keep tri-ing.

 

[Robin]

We have had a Hydranet triradial roller genoa for 2 seasons, this is Dimension Polyant Dacron with Spectra woven in both warp & weft about every 6mm, very strong and tear resistant as well as low stretch. This is an excellent sail and this year we added a matching triradial mainsail in Hydranet as well and it is superb. The additional cost is bearable, probably in the order of magnitude you mentioned, but in our case with large sails is well spent. We were advised that at our size of sail, Dacron would last many years but look dreadful after a few (stretched out of shape) whilst the usual laminates used by the racers would set perfectly for a year or two, then fail in a big way. The laminates are also subject to mildew and certainly do not like being folded sharply or any kind of point loading. Our sailmaker has yachts on the RTW route with Hydranet and still reporting satisfaction with their choice, certainly so far I am well pleased.

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[jimi]

I got a triradial genoa in cruising laminate from Kemps last year and generally am very impressed with it, thoroughly recommend dealing with them. I also got a foam luff and it holds its shape well when well rolled (the sail I mean not the boat!)

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[dralex]

That's good to know- thanks for the advice.

Alex

<hr width=100% size=1>Life's too short- do it now.

 

[Janger]

I purchased Norlam bi-radial genoa for my Westerly Corsair 5 years ago from North. The sail has really improved her performance, there are two downsides fistly cost price is £1,700/£1,800. Secondly the sail quickly loses its new white loook if left furled during the season, mainly because the material is attacked by damp and develops black spots and grey patches. I' am currently thinking of a new main sail and would not consider Dacron again.

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[malcp]

We too have North Norlam Genoa (3 radial) + fully batterned dacron (crosscut)main. After 6 years the main was essentially a bag of washing, and the genoa was not too bad. Comments about mold staining with this technology are true. But there's no doubt it has better shape holding. The new main (laminate) has improved performance considerably, especially by reducing weather helm and improving upwind performance. If you have a masthead rigged boat with an overlapping genoa I would suggest a flatter cut mainsail. You get less backwinding this way which again leads to less weatherhelm. It allows you to flatten it more in strong winds to depower it.

I too would not go back to dacron.

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[steve_cronin]

Don\'t blame the sailmakers......

..blame the Britiush climate!

Incidentally, there is a company in Loughborough, Wright Textiles which makes a lufftape/boltrope setup sailcloth that flows seamlessly into the sail.

Steve Cronin



<hr width=100% size=1>The above is, like any other post here, only a personal opinion

 

[bedouin]

A danger in making any such comparison is that there are Dacrons and Dacrons. I am guessing from some of the comments in this thread that many of the people are comparing Cruising Laminates with cheap Dacron - in which case the Cruising Laminate would win hands down on every point.

A more interesting comparison would be Cruising Laminate with a top quality Dacron. In that case you would not expect much difference in costs (Dacron probably still a little cheaper) but similarly you would not expect much difference in performance either. The Dacron would certainly last longer but it would be interesting to compare the efficiency of either after say 3 seasons...

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[dralex]

I think that's the main issue- a top quality tri radial dacron sail will give you good sail shape initially, but how well does it last and what performance difference will it make over the years. My current sail shows what happens to a radial cut genoa after many years- it's a bag. I think the big question is whether to get t top quality dacron sail which may last for longer but gradually lose it's shape, or a laminate which will keep it's shape and then fail earlier. I feel that money spent on sails is money well spent, even if they do need replacing after five years- they are after all, the main propulsion for the boat and the satisfaction to be gained from sailing well is huge.

<hr width=100% size=1>Life's too short- do it now.

 

[MrG]

Can anyone tell me if the cruising laminates are suitable for furling Genoa and furling main?

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue>Mark

 

[pandroid]

Dont see why not. We have a multi-weight Laminate Genoa rolled onto a Furlex and its the Canine's Sphericals.

I think the cut is probably more important than the material. I have a friend who has a laminate from a different sailmaker and is bitterly disappointed. Ours was made (after considerable discussion as to what we wanted it for) by Jon Parker of Parker & Kay, and it fits the brief exactly. Interestingly he was somewhat dismissive of the Pentax type of materials.



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[MainlySteam]

<<<is that there are Dacrons and Dacrons>>>

-as well as weights and weights.

Many of the sails I see on the cheaper production cruising boats are going to lose their shape after a few good blows purely because they are so lightly constructed. Replacing them with a more appropriate cloth of any kind is going to make the owner rapturous about his discovery of a great "new" sail cloth.

John

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[MrG]

Thanks for the info.
Begs the question can 'Canine Sphericals' be furled too?

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue>Mark

 

[dralex]

Good comment. Seems very strange talking to someone in NZ- that's miles away!

<hr width=100% size=1>Life's too short- do it now.

 

[jimi]

He ain't really just pretends to be, he's actually locked up in Broadmoor but do'nt tell nobody.

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[MainlySteam]

Shhhh Jimi /forums/images/icons/mad.gif or I won't be sending you any more bottles of whiskey as hush money.

John

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[dralex]

I'm pretty new to the forum and still very naive and take people on face value. Should I be disillusioned or is more exciting to talk to a Broadmoor guest compared to a Kiwi?

<hr width=100% size=1>Life's too short- do it now.