Jet Ski legislation on the way?

[Gary Fox]

And what about any training , maybe a RYA Personal Watercraft Proficiency Course min for all users, no it will not cover everything but its a good start and if you can afford a jet ski then you can afford to do the course.

Yes why not.
Motorbikes are far more dangerous than horses, so the licences and training are far more demanding, in fact I believe there is no DVLA horse driver's licence.
Why can't a similar heirarchy be applied to wetskis? They are exponentially more lethal than sailing yachts, which travel at a walking pace, and don't and shouldn't need a licence to operate.
Gin palaces could go in the middle, with their owners' Audis and Jaguars.

 

[madabouttheboat]

Yes why not.
Motorbikes are far more dangerous than horses, so the licences and training are far more demanding, in fact I believe there is no DVLA horse driver's licence.
Why can't a similar heirarchy be applied to wetskis? They are exponentially more lethal than sailing yachts, which travel at a walking pace, and don't and shouldn't need a licence to operate.
Gin palaces could go in the middle, with their owners' Audis and Jaguars.

You are being far too general. There are plenty of boats with sails that you wouldn't be able to keep up with if you were running, let alone walking. Then there are the stats that may well prove that more people die on yachts than they do on PWCs. Lastly, what actually defines a 'gin palace'?

 

[JumbleDuck]

And what about any training , maybe a RYA Personal Watercraft Proficiency Course min for all users, no it will not cover everything but its a good start and if you can afford a jet ski then you can afford to do the course.

I would be very wary about making a private company's training course mandatory. The RYA monopoly is quite bad enough at Yachtmaster level. It would also be a terrible precedent. After all, if you can afford a yacht/dinghy/motorboat/canoe you can afford a course ...

 

[JumbleDuck]

Why can't a similar heirarchy be applied to wetskis? They are exponentially more lethal than sailing yachts, which travel at a walking pace, and don't and shouldn't need a licence to operate.

How many people die on (a) jetskis and (b) yachts in a typical year?

 

[Stemar]

I'm opposed to legislation - it'd be a Something Must Be Done job, and that's always done badly - just look at gun laws that sent olympic shooting teams abroad to train, and knife laws that make criminals of yotties who forget the take the boating multitool off their belt.

However, I would be in favour of declaring anything much bigger than a lilo to be a vessel for the purposes of colregs and other boaty law, and a requirement for compulsory 3rd party insurance. All responsible boaters will have insurance already, so it wouldn't be a burden to them, but a £1000 fine for not being insured would get the irresponsible ones' attention

 

[Scotsailor]

I’m slightly puzzled by the perception, from many, that jet skis aren’t insured … these are valuable items. I would be surprised if the vast majority of them are not insured. For theft. And the policies will include third party liability. … there will of course be a few that aren’t insured. As there will be a few sailing craft and motor boats around that are uninsured as well.

 

[MystyBlue2]

I’m slightly puzzled by the perception, from many, that jet skis aren’t insured … these are valuable items. I would be surprised if the vast majority of them are not insured. For theft. And the policies will include third party liability. … there will of course be a few that aren’t insured. As there will be a few sailing craft and motor boats around that are uninsured as well.

Ofcourse there is and alot more than we realise. I personally know 2 people in 16ft mobos that have NO INSURANCE. reasons...

A) Because insurance is not compulsory as they aren't using harbours, It's beach launching with a tractor.

B) If a claim was made for a broken engine, Hull damage, Sunk boat etc the chance of the insurance paying out is absolutely minimal as the surveyor goes through everything with a fine tooth comb and nearly ALWAYS find a reason not to pay out

Just like pet insurance, They see it more of a con for you to pay into for a slim chance of a pay out. I can sort of see their point...

Just imagine how many people in the uk are ACTUALLY uninsured....

 

[Mark-1]

Just imagine how many people in the uk are ACTUALLY uninsured....

Having tried to find boat insurance for a child I'd predict almost any child who owns a boat of any kind is uninsured.

Putting your dad down as owner works fine unless there's a big claim worth challenging. You wouldn't get far arguing a boat you bought with your own cash or received as a present was your dad's.

Mind you, you can't recover money from an under 18yo anyway so does insurance matter if you're under 18?

I had no problems whatsoever finding boat insurance as a kid. Maybe my Google Fu is just weak when it comes to buying insurance for kids today.

Then there's kayaks. None of our family kayaks are 3rd party insured. And my tender. That's not 3rd party insured. Pretty sure that's typical. Which is interesting. The marina physically check my boat insurance, but I can row my tender around the marina without insurance, AFAIK.

 

[ashtead]

Might be a difference in the damage a jetski yob can do when it hits a dinghy or even a ferry compared to a Mirror dinghy or kayak. Most small dinghies are predictable even in strong weather and even when they are tacking anyone with a moderate degree of control in a motor vessel can take suitable action. Clearly as ex naval officers show when racing yachts it’s not wise to rely on your rights as a sailing vessel compared to a larger motor vessel but generally when motoring in a confined area with a dinghy fleet racing you should able to avoid . None of this applies to jetski which move fast and unpredictably in my experience-don’t steer a steady course etc. While I can see a kayak might not do much good to a swimmer if they hit I’ve never seen any incidents of kayaks involving yachts etc . As to age surely no under18 year old should be driving a jetski so it’s perfectly possible to mandate cover for those over -they have coverfor electric scooters I gather in trials and jetski present far more risk to third parties . If it was compulsory third party cover then the grounds for the insurer to avoid are virtually no existent . Coverage disputes for pet insurance generally relate to own loss not third party claims -the incidence of claims under third party liability against dog owners for say knocking over another dog owner causing injury are rare and likewise for dog attacks etc based on number of dogs. I really don’t see why compulsory third party insurance plus training is such an issue if it helps to educate as well.

 

[STATUE]

Not that long ago a jetski rammed a moored sailing cruiser off Saltash S.C. - although owner of the offending vessel (no, I mean , object) was identified, the yacht owner could claim nothing as the 'object ', had nothing to do with maritime law !

 

[ashtead]

Last time I looked jetski weren’t classed as wild animals but maybe this one at Salash was being driven by a monkey??

 

[Scotsailor]

It would be a bizarre situation if a jetski rider has to have training and proof of insurance. … but the skipper of a large vessel does not.

 

[ProDave]

It does seem bizarre that a jet ski is not classed as a "vessel" that obviously needs correcting to bring it into line with all other vessels.

And i would agree with compulsory insurance to use a vessel. I am sure most of us have that anyway, here it is a requirement to keep a boat in a harbour, and the harbourmaster requires a copy with your harbour berth renewal each year.

But I am still against any boat user, of any type of leisure vessel, requiring some form of compulsory training and a certificate, if applied to jet ski's now, you can be sure other types of boats will follow. And I speak as someone with Power Boat level 2. I would hate that to be compulsory before you can take to the water.

 

[Gary Fox]

It would be a bizarre situation if a jetski rider has to have training and proof of insurance. … but the skipper of a large vessel does not.

Why? Wetskis can accelerate to high speeds in a short distance, and are commonly used to cause alarm, harrassment and danger by sexually frustrated retards in crowded waters. They are unique, and need treating as a special case.

 

[Mark-1]

a jet ski is not classed as a "vessel"

This has been quoted at lot and it's not true.

The Goodwin case accepted a jet ski is a vessel.

What it decided was that a jet ski wasn't a "ship" for the purposes of the MSA, because they aren't involved in navigation.

That was in 2005. It's widely accepted they were wrong and Jet Skis *are* involved in navigation, they have crossed oceans and routinely cross the channel.

So a) Jet Skis are vessels, nobody in officialdom has desputed that. b) It seems likely that if a court ever looked at this again it would decide Jet Skis are "ships" covered by the MSA.

 

[madabouttheboat]

Why? Wetskis can accelerate to high speeds in a short distance, and are commonly used to cause alarm, harrassment and danger by sexually frustrated retards in crowded waters. They are unique, and need treating as a special case.

Wow. I wonder if you are so bigoted about other things?

 

[Gary Fox]

Wow. I wonder if you are so bigoted about other things?

If you possess a dictionary, see if you can find the word 'commonly' which has a different meaning to 'always'.

 

[madabouttheboat]

If you possess a dictionary, see if you can find the word 'commonly' which has a different meaning to 'always'.

Oh, thats alright then. I can use the word 'commonly' when referring to any group I want to insult and it will be acceptable. Got it.

 

[ashtead]

I think to have compulsory insurance given the transitory nature of jetski ie trailed behind a pickup mostly that some form of training should be provided to adults by dealers on purchase and having passed such a test reduces the risk and hence cost of insurance hence to keep the uninsured numbers down some controls on training are required-I agree a carrot approach would be preferred but I doubt so far many jetski owners take up training compared to rib owners who are investing more and partaking with family members . I guess it’s because ribs are not so much driven by lads on the lash racing boats/cutting across wakes etc compared to jetski (whatever their sexual frustrations which is an interesting thesis deserving more research)

 

[Blue Sunray]

Wow. I wonder if you are so bigoted about other things?

No need to wonder, look at his other posts.