Jet Ski legislation on the way?

[Scotsailor]

I think to have compulsory insurance given the transitory nature of jetski ie trailed behind a pickup mostly that some form of training should be provided to adults by dealers on purchase and having passed such a test reduces the risk and hence cost of insurance hence to keep the uninsured numbers down some controls on training are required-I agree a carrot approach would be preferred but I doubt so far many jetski owners take up training compared to rib owners who are investing more and partaking with family members . I guess it’s because ribs are not so much driven by lads on the lash racing boats/cutting across wakes etc compared to jetski (whatever their sexual frustrations which is an interesting thesis deserving more research)

Is that true about jet skis being ridden by lads? … tends to mainly be blokes in their forties from what I’ve seen

 

[MystyBlue2]

Is that true about jet skis being ridden by lads? … tends to mainly be blokes in their forties from what I’ve seen

+1. Either 15year old kids being yobs or 40-50year old blokes reliving their youth having a mid life crisis and instead of remortgaging the house to buy a classic sports car they buy a seadoo and act like teens again. ?

 

[oldgit]

- just look at gun laws that sent olympic shooting teams abroad to train,

any mass shootings since Dumblane and Hungerford ?

 

[Scotsailor]

any mass shootings since Dumblane and Hungerford ?

Yes. Cumbria shootings in 2010

 

[Bristolfashion]

Compulsory training and insurance seems reasonable to me, but then I think that about all boating. It probably comes from Australia where registration, training & licencing were complusory, so I'm used to it. Insurance was not compulsory, but you couldn't use facilities such as marinas without it.

Bizarrely, I do have an Australian jet ski extension on my boat licence.

 

[MystyBlue2]

Yes. Cumbria shootings in 2010

+ Raul moat...

 

[doris]

Yes and motorbikes have a graduated test and licensing scheme, starting with compulsory basic training off the road, then engine size limits for a couple of years to build experience.
Motorbikes are intrinsically dangerous compared to other vehicles, and attract a certain sort of user. This is also true of Personal Wa**er Craft.

Oi oi oi....
Motor bikes are no more dangerous than cars, trucks, bicycles, scooters. Driven stupidly they can all cause problems, hence the training, testing and policing. I not sure in what way I'm different when on a bike compared to when I'm driving a car. There are more idiot hooligans in hot hatches round my way than on bikes!

 

[Blue Sunray]

Oi oi oi....
Motor bikes are no more dangerous than cars, trucks, bicycles, scooters. Driven stupidly then can all cause problems, hence the training, testing and policing. I not sure in what way I'm different when on a bike compared to when I'm driving a car. There are more idiot hooligans in hot hatches round my way than on bikes!

Criticism of motorbikes seems to come from the older generation as in their time bikes were what young men could afford, these days a small hatchback is easily attainable for that demographic. Young male behaviour hasn't changed much over the generations.

 

[Graham376]

Compulsory training and insurance seems reasonable to me, but then I think that about all boating. It probably comes from Australia where registration, training & licencing were complusory, so I'm used to it. Insurance was not compulsory, but you couldn't use facilities such as marinas without it.

Bizarrely, I do have an Australian jet ski extension on my boat licence.

Here in Portugal, compulsory training and insurance required for all boats but level of competence and regard for wake far worse than in unregulated UK.

 

[madabouttheboat]

Here in Portugal, compulsory training and insurance required for all boats but level of competence and regard for wake far worse than in unregulated UK.

This is the best argument against compulsory training. We see it in northern French marinas. The little Bateaux Ecole boat goes around in circles within the marine for a bit. Drops a fender over the side, picks it up, then all off to the cafe for a baguette and a Gitane while certificates are issued. The handling of French owned boats is certainly no better than British owned ones and, in fact, may be worse. But at least they have their certificates.

 

[Bristolfashion]

Here in Portugal, compulsory training and insurance required for all boats but level of competence and regard for wake far worse than in unregulated UK.

I note from observation that the legal users of these electric scooters are much better at sensible riding and obeying the rules than the illegal ones. I put that down to some form of briefing / advice before riding and the fact that, at a minimum, they need a provisional licence.

 

[MystyBlue2]

This is the best argument against compulsory training. We see it in northern French marinas. The little Bateaux Ecole boat goes around in circles within the marine for a bit. Drops a fender over the side, picks it up, then all off to the cafe for a baguette and a Gitane while certificates are issued. The handling of French owned boats is certainly no better than British owned ones and, in fact, may be worse. But at least they have their certificates.

Ofcourse because everything these days is all about that paperwork and certs. Same in work environments, I know lads that have been welders/fabricators for 30years and are FANTASTIC at their jobs but DONT have qualifications as they learned on the job and did not acquire papers at the end. On the other hand all sites nowadays prefur that newly qualified tradesman that has just acquired his L3 to do the job on site whereas the old timer with 0 qualifications could do the job 100x better. But the lad just out his time gets the job as he is QUALIFIED.

Its all about the certs these days and certs dont prove nowt, all it means is you've been shown parrot fashion and skimmed through an exam to get a piece of paper so your now qualified and if any accidents you can be held accountable as your seen as a professional rather than a amateur.

To me personally paperwork means nothing, experience and competence is key and that takes TIME and PRACTICE not a piece of paper

 

[doris]

I would love to see compulsory third party insurance for ALL water users with an identification system The government can tell the insurance companies to expect some evidence of competence to enable cover, would become self policing. Same should apply to bicycles. FWIT, I ride a pedal bike and a motor bike and I drive cars and boats and I live in a city and I'm qualified on all except the pedal bike!

This thread is extraordinarily pejorative in so many ways that I'm sure I'll get flamed by someone banging on about individual freedom etc but WTF, we now live in a much more crowded and materially well off society
which requires more regs. If you can't cope, naff off and live somewhere like the Yukon the Orkneys! However nothing will stop prats being what they are!

 

[madabouttheboat]

Ofcourse because everything these days is all about that paperwork and certs. Same in work environments, I know lads that have been welders/fabricators for 30years and are FANTASTIC at their jobs but DONT have qualifications as they learned on the job and did not acquire papers at the end. On the other hand all sites nowadays prefur that newly qualified tradesman that has just acquired his L3 to do the job on site whereas the old timer with 0 qualifications could do the job 100x better. But the lad just out his time gets the job as he is QUALIFIED.

Its all about the certs these days and certs dont prove nowt, all it means is you've been shown parrot fashion and skimmed through an exam to get a piece of paper so your now qualified and if any accidents you can be held accountable as your seen as a professional rather than a amateur.

To me personally paperwork means nothing, experience and competence is key and that takes TIME not a piece of paper

Its is true. I have pieces of paper that indicate I am competent in certain things that I actually would not be happy to do. Luckily I am sensible enough to know my limitations.

 

[Bristolfashion]

I would love to see compulsory third party insurance for ALL water users with an identification system The government can tell the insurance companies to expect some evidence of competence to enable cover, would become self policing. Same should apply to bicycles. FWIT, I ride a pedal bike and a motor bike and I drive cars and boats and I live in a city and I'm qualified on all except the pedal bike!

This thread is extraordinarily pejorative in so many ways that I'm sure I'll get flamed by someone banging on about individual freedom etc but WTF, we now live in a much more crowded and materially well off society
which requires more regs. If you can't cope, naff off and live somewhere like the Yukon the Orkneys! However nothing will stop prats being what they are!

I don't disagree. However, it seems to me that there should be a cut off based on risk - skateboarders, pedestrians, joggers, roller skaters, dog owners etc all cause some injury / damage. If we had some impartial scale, we could say that activities with a risk above point X require compulsory insurance, below it they don't.

I've still got my cycling proficiency badge from 50 odd years ago, so I'm qualified on the push bike!

 

[Bristolfashion]

Ofcourse because everything these days is all about that paperwork and certs. Same in work environments, I know lads that have been welders/fabricators for 30years and are FANTASTIC at their jobs but DONT have qualifications as they learned on the job and did not acquire papers at the end. On the other hand all sites nowadays prefur that newly qualified tradesman that has just acquired his L3 to do the job on site whereas the old timer with 0 qualifications could do the job 100x better. But the lad just out his time gets the job as he is QUALIFIED.

Its all about the certs these days and certs dont prove nowt, all it means is you've been shown parrot fashion and skimmed through an exam to get a piece of paper so your now qualified and if any accidents you can be held accountable as your seen as a professional rather than a amateur.

To me personally paperwork means nothing, experience and competence is key and that takes TIME not a piece of paper

I have generally found that the best outcome is a combination of training (both formal and on the job) AND experience. My two day chainsaw training & test was excellent and provided a sound foundation for my building of both confidence & competence.

 

[Mark-1]

it seems to me that there should be a cut off based on risk - skateboarders, pedestrians, joggers, roller skaters, dog owners etc all cause some injury / damage. If we had some impartial scale, we could say that activities with a risk above point X require compulsory insurance, below it they don't.

Agree. Sailing/Boating/Jetskiing is so much safer than most of the other things we do there's just no point in testing or legislating for it, by any measure it will be near last on the list.

A + E on a Saturday evening is full of Teamsports injuries. A bit later it's full of alcohol injuries. You can't have compulsory qualifications in Rugby or a GCSE in abusing alcohol safely. Obesity's a massive easily preventable cause of disease and death. Making everyone take a course on sensible diets or healthy cooking would save the lives of more water sports enthusiasts than a boating course!

...and ultimately you get down to 3yo kids riding horses/bicycles on the road. You can't legislate or test for that, you just have to trust the parents to choose the roads sensibly. (And accept that some won't.)

Boating is unregulated because it's safe. If you ever wanted to legislate some danger out of life you could pick a million things with a better cost/benefit than boating.

 

[MystyBlue2]

I have generally found that the best outcome is a combination of training (both formal and on the job) AND experience. My two day chainsaw training & test was excellent and provided a sound foundation for my building of both confidence & competence.

Yeah but in all fairness there will be old timer tree surgeon's and lumberjacks that learned decades ago and recieved no papers and certs (As it was not essential) That will be able to handle and operate a chainsaw or any other machinery involved way safer and better than a newly qualified guy this day in age that thinks he can do everything as his new qualifications have give him a false sense of security that he is competent and qualified to operate when he clearly is not. And thats how accidents happen.

VERY fine line with this compulsory course/certs route IMO

 

[doris]

[QUOTE="Bristolfashion, post: 7624607, member: 170846"

I've still got my cycling proficiency badge from 50 odd years ago, so I'm qualified on the push bike!
[/QUOTE]

Has ha, I've probably got mine from 60 years ago, so beat ya!!! Lord knows where it is though. I still remember the emergency stop. Had to ride flat out at a wall, when you passed a line, brakes on and hope. bent front wheel and bloody nose = failure!
I was amazed about 15 years ago when the government abolished the test, thought it had gone years earlier.

 

[doris]

Yeah but in all fairness there will be old timer tree surgeon's and lumberjacks that learned decades ago and recieved no papers and certs (As it was not essential) That will be able to handle and operate a chainsaw or any other machinery involved way safer and better than a newly qualified guy this day in age that thinks he can do everything as his new qualifications have give him a false sense of security that he is competent and qualified to operate when he clearly is not. And thats how accidents happen.

VERY fine line with this compulsory course/certs route IMO

Bit like having newly qualified yacht-master on board, bloody nightmare!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That could well be balanced out by having the insurance companies needing to have evidence of competence. Bit like the grandfathering in that many professions use.