Jet Ski legislation on the way?

[Never Grumble]

Like boating isn't complicated and expensive enough eh.

I don't get what is complicated, but then I did enjoy a period as a professional mariner. Down here on the Eastern Solent (the whole of it) the Queens Harbour Master Portsmouth has regulated by requiring all PWC users to have one of his licences, be data tagged and 3rd party insured. One can only draw the conclusion that they took this action because of the nuisance being caused not because he wanted an extra administrative burden, BTW the licence is free. Personally I can see nothing wrong with any of that. The problem is of course they move out of QHMs area and into adjacent ones and act like d1cks there, apparently in nearby Langstone, Cowes, humble etc where the policing isn't quite so robust.

 

[DinghyMan]

Isn't that personal cover holiday insurance stylee rather than boat cover including third party?

They do both UK only yearly and foreign - see SportsCover Direct - Children's Sports Accident Insurance

 

[Mark-1]

They do both UK only yearly and foreign - see SportsCover Direct - Children's Sports Accident Insurance

It doesn't seem to be boat insurance, though. It looks like accident insurance. Unless I'm missing something.

 

[DinghyMan]

It doesn't seem to be boat insurance, though. It looks like accident insurance. Unless I'm missing something.

Yep, it insures them against any damage they do with their dinghy/jet ski/kayak/etc.

 

[MystyBlue2]

DELETED

 

[MystyBlue2]

Yep, it insures them against any damage they do with their dinghy/jet ski/kayak/etc.

What about the cases where their parents have it insured but its not in kids name, Therefore the insurance is null and void when a collision occurs and nobody gets a payout and the damaged vessel owner has to fork out for damages as you cant get money out of a minor.

It's all well saying this stuff but actually how many kids in small craft are actually insured and out of that small percentage how many of those is the insurance actually in the kids name and not daddys?

 

[Stemar]

The insurance is null and void and the kids have nothing, but those kids should be under the responsibility of the parents, or someone acting in loco parentis, so surely you could go after the parents?

 

[Mark-1]

surely you could go after the parents?

I'm not sure that's true, otherwise you could sue the parents of under 18yo vandals, but let's assume it is, ultimately that argument boils down to "insurance isn't necessary because you can be sued". Which isn't really playing the game.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I'm not sure that's true, otherwise you could sue the parents of under 18yo vandals, but let's assume it is, ultimately that argument boils down to "insurance isn't necessary because you can be sued". Which isn't really playing the game.

But I think that the point is that if there is no liability, there's no risk to be insured. Remember, insurance is about liability - that's why you have to be careful what you say after a car accident, as your words could be taken as an admission of liability. My late wife fell into that one - her native politeness led her to say something that could be construed as an admission of fault.

If the dinghy is insured by the parents on an all risks basis, for any user, that might be a basis for insurance.

I am very definitely NOT a lawyer!

 

[MystyBlue2]

The insurance is null and void and the kids have nothing, but those kids should be under the responsibility of the parents, or someone acting in loco parentis, so surely you could go after the parents?

But I thought the insurance had to cover the driver/skipper for the car/vessel at the time of the accident?

I could not be in a car at 17 with no insurance in my own right, But it being in my mums name if i have a crash i could say, "Sorry mate, I'm personally not insured but my mum has insurance on this car so go ask her for the money"

Dont think it works that way. Could be wrong though but thats the way i believe it works for the road and with all insurance companies being notorious for having loopholes and small print it may well work that way at sea too.

 

[Mark-1]

If the dinghy is insured by the parents on an all risks basis, for any user, that might be a basis for insurance.

Which is fine as long as the dinghy belongs to the parents, but you can't insure something you don't own, that's a fundamental principle of insurance, otherwise I could insure the Pentagon and claim when someone smashed an aircraft into it.

It would be very hard for me to argue my 5yo son's boat which was given to him as a present and literally won't carry an adult's weight was my boat.

I'm not saying this is a massive drama - there are ways round it. I'm just saying I couldn't find boat insurance available to under 18s when I looked recently, and I looked quite hard. In contrast I had no problem getting boat insurance when I child, it was totally unremarkable.

 

[JumbleDuck]

It's all well saying this stuff but actually how many kids in small craft are actually insured and out of that small percentage how many of those is the insurance actually in the kids name and not daddys?

My insurance covers anyone using it with my permission. Why would that be different with dinghies?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Which is fine as long as the dinghy belongs to the parents, but you can't insure something you don't own, that's a fundamental principle of insurance...

I believe the term is "insurable interest", and it doesn't require ownership. My household insurers paid out cheerfully when a laptop belonging to my employers was stolen from my car. I believe this was because to take the laptop home (it was a long time ago, when these things were rare and expensive) I had had to sign an undertaking to replace it if it was stolen, and that gave me the insurable interest.

 

[Mark-1]

My insurance covers anyone using it with my permission. Why would that be different with dinghies?

You're not under 18.

EDIT: Snipped out some wrong stuff.

 

[ashtead]

The answer to this insurance mountain some seem to be creating is that any insurance is in joint names of minor over 14 but under18 and adult and the minor has to have taken appropriate training to help reduce risk and to be covered evidence this to the brokers/underwriters . I’m not certain I would want to cover minors driving jetski but at least embedding a sense of consideration for other water users hopefully serves to reduce the risks of crashing into others.

 

[Mark-1]

I believe the term is "insurable interest", and it doesn't require ownership. My household insurers paid out cheerfully when a laptop belonging to my employers was stolen from my car. I believe this was because to take the laptop home (it was a long time ago, when these things were rare and expensive) I had had to sign an undertaking to replace it if it was stolen, and that gave me the insurable interest.

Yes, "insurable interest" rings a bell. So are you saying I have an insurable interest in my kids boats? On the basis that I would have to repair them if they broke? Or on some other basis?

 

[Mark-1]

The answer to this insurance mountain some seem to be creating

I don't think it's a mountain - there's no way to prove ownership of a boat that's not Part 1 registered so you can claim pretty much any boat belongs to you - your kids are hardly going to contradict you and if they did who would a court believe, a coherent adult or a three year old who can barely talk and doesn't properly understand the concept of ownership.

...but it is still a fact that I couldn't find boat insurance available to under 18s. And it's still a fact that kids typically spend hours playing in the tender and AFAIK tenders don't have third party insurance.

I was hoping to be proved wrong. I'd be delighted if someone could just link to a boat insurance policy with no age restriction. I'd also be quite pleased to hear that if I scratch the paint of a superyacht with an oar in my tender my insurance firm will take the hit.

 

[MystyBlue2]

My insurance covers anyone using it with my permission. Why would that be different with dinghies?

Well my boat insurance states in the small print that, I the owner am the sole insurer of the vessel. And if an accident should occur, I am the only person it covers, that doesn't include the neighbour on the off-chance i let him take the helm...

I could not let my brother on the boat and take the helm, Him have an accident and then say "Oh well im not insured to drive it but the skipper is so thats fine" That would not happen in the real world. We would both get HAMMERED.

Look what happens when people do that in cars. Theres always court cases going in these circumstances and they always lose.

The driver of the vehicle needs to be insured for the vehicle in question at the time of the accident or the insurance is "Null and void" and was pointless to have it insured in the first place. Might as well of saved the money because it is not "legally" covered in court and stands for nowt.

Just like fully comprehensive USED to mean you could drive ANY vehicle. NOW its totally pointless because most insurance companies now have stopped this "All vehicle" policy and only stands for your own.

 

[ashtead]

The query related to jetski however its entirely possible to also insure dinghies such as Mirrors or RS Fevers etc sailed by minors. I suggest you contact the RYA or your insurance broker if concerned or just search on web. Title to a jetski would be evidence by the bill of sale or invoice if you prefer. Very few leisure vessels are Part 1 registered and it doesn’t prevent the owner obtaining insurance . You really won’t find it that difficult to obtain third party liability cover even in the absence of evidence of any equivalent to a land certificate or keeper document . Car insurance is not a good comparison but the risks of fraud have led to a crackdown on scope of coverage in summary.

 

[Mark-1]

I just checked with my insurer and my tender is third party insured no matter who is in it. (Obvs as long as it's being used as a tender.)

So we can discount everything I've said about tenders.

All we need now is someone to find boat insurance for under 18s and my day will be perfect.