Italian modern wooden classic

[wakeup]

Re: ac/dc

My point kinda of is that you don't see these innovations on the mass production boats that the average man in the street i.e. me could afford. However many of the features found and developed for large stinkies find their way down to small power boats even at the budget end of the market. It seems to be to be an inverted technical snobbery in operation in the rag n stick world by that I mean if it makes sailing easire then it can't be good or proper salty dog like kit, which is an attitude I think keeps many away from sailing. Believe me I'd love nothing more than to give up paying for fuel and use just the wind to push me along but a the moment the balance of comfort, fun and lack of complexity leans to much in favour of mobos.

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[ParaHandy]

Re: yes - and further

stick ra boot in there ... orra kick ass .... weel done, lad

One stink pot crossing the channel .... 30kn and the whole crew's sat up on the fly-screen, hinging on for grim death with rictus grins across their chops. The only one enjoying it is the ijiot driving the thing. Doesn't matter how palatial the bog is if you can't hold your arse down on the thing and so on .... and how much punishment will the boat stand before the inside's a knackers yard. So, okay, I hear you say, he/she (more likely swmbo's down below talking to the great white telephone receiver) slows down to a more sedate pace - 10 kn? but then it has precious little steerage. These boats are meant for inland lakes and that's the med.

However, when and if you get there, a motor boat offers accomodation and comfort which is superb - it's the getting there that's the problem ....

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[Twister_Ken]

Ah ha - I\'ve spotted the problem

You keep talking about passengers on a sailboat.

Well, we don't have them. Just sailors.

BTW - what non-incremental changes have their been on mobos? And how have mobos changed in the last 20 years or so?

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[wakeup]

Re: Ah ha - I\'ve spotted the problem

Well that is part of the problem, lots of people want to going sailing but dont want to have to become sailors to do so.

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[sailbadthesinner]

Re: ac/dc

but a the moment the balance of comfort, fun and lack of complexity leans to much in favour of mobos.'

what you mean is you'd spill your wine a yacht cos it would heel when you are not expecting it.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>if guinness is good for you. i must be very very good</font color=red>

 

[wakeup]

Exactly Watson and even more importantly..

my passengers (sailors) and SWMBO (Big Boss) wine also.....

especillay don't want bit of soggy string to get in the way of a travelling along in the sunshine with a glass of wine without the bloody healing. I know it can be done i've seen some great cats in the carib that stay flat and have perfecly good decks but they don't seem to be that popular over here for some reason..

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[sailbadthesinner]

Re: Exactly Watson and even more importantly..

oooh cats are super
big fan of them in the med.if you ever fancy a charter let me know i'll be up for it.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>if guinness is good for you. i must be very very good</font color=red>

 

[wakeup]

Re: Exactly Watson and even more importantly..

How much do you think a good sized cat would be to hire down in the med then???

My mrs is Cat crazy she would buy one tomorrow coz you don't spill you pina colladas and they have a nice sun bed come disco area at the fron of the boat!!

We chartered a 60footer for the day in the carib, It had to 150 outboards that lowered into the water between the potoons on hydraulics, thing did nearly 20knots under power was absolutely brilliant and even better when the switched the engines off and kept going at that speed. The skipper singl handed the ting whilst his wife did all the drinks and grub, now thats the sort of boating I;d like to do on a raggie but haven't go 1m squid to put into one, why can;t i get one for £100k that isn't 15 years old with stinky loos and crap interior.

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[zefender]

Re: ac/dc

I sit somewhere in the middle on this (amidships). There certainly have been innovations in saily boats, some of them significant. For a start most modern boats have considerably more beam (and thus space below) than they used to have. Maybe people didn't think about comfort down below when there was so little space to play with. That technology and design has meant that boats that needed a big crew can now be easily sailed by a couple. So there's more 'living' space per occupant as boats get longer and wider. The problem is that this has taken the industry by surprise (which is the silly bit). It is true that bogs are worse than bog standard (although much larger than they used to be) and switchgear looks like something from Halfords on sale day. Part of the problem is TCM's charter issue in that so many new boats go straight to charter - where number of berths, rather than living accomodation is the currency. But there can be little to stop a wise soul buying a production boat (as an alternative to the Wally route) and speccing the thing to suit. There will always be arguments about things like companionway steps being narrow and steep but they are narrow for a perfectly good reason - to minimise the chances of fish coming to tea. If I were planning a long term comfortable extended cruise, I'd look at a personally specced Farr 60something or the Island packet 485 -the latter has deep, deep bilges, proper space and can be semi-customised -- as long as you can cope with the cream hull.


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[tcm]

Re: okay then, wine spilling

Yep, good example. sailboat under fifty feet or £300k with

a) a wine storage place. No, not at the bottom of enclosed box pond. A coolbox thing, somewhere.
b) the wine and glasses need to be close at hand. I'm not going downstairs, i'm sloshed. Or talking to my friend. Well, so am i. And so am I. Theres a gert big lump of space either side of the companionway, it could be there. But cheapiness means wine is warm, and crashing about somewhere in the box somewhere with all the food. So, it's obviously very very cheap wine. Which isn't the sort of wine that peopel who lash out £1m quid is it Mr nitpot Moody64 designer, eh?

b) somewhere nice to sit. No, not on a seat that is the same as the floor. Cushions, thanks, ansd i know there aren't ok at sea, so special hidey away places near at hand and easy to put away when sailing. No, not under a crappy liftup seat with hinges that would slice your hand off thanks - the others are sitting there anyway. The moody 64 is a start in this respect, but a very poor start and *nearly* as good as £20 quid garden furniture from B&Q. Remember - it has to be nicer than your house.



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[ccscott49]

Re: okay then, wine spilling

I totally agree, designers of these type of boats just do not consider the use they will be put to, sailing is fine, but you want comfort and all the mod cons when you get there and to a certain extent, whilst getting there, it's not difficult. I have modified my boat to the stage where I am now happy with her, but it's taken me years and a not inconsiderable amount of dosh, but she is now very, very comfortable, with most of the bells and whistles. Old yes, but comfy and yes I do have carpet on the floor, good stuff and a freezer and two fridges, any fool can rough it, it takes a bit of thought to be comfortable. You shouldn't be "camping" on a 64 foot boat!

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[sailbadthesinner]

Re: Exactly Watson and even more importantly..

you can get a 38 foot cat for a just over a grand a week on late sail
between say six people thats a brucy bargain.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>if guinness is good for you. i must be very very good</font color=red>

 

[tcm]

Re: sailors

But lots of swmbo's don't callemselves sailors, same as lots of people in airyplanes callemselves "airmen"

There are no passenger on sailboats cos only someone is up for the exhilaration (cost: the privations) is up for it.

in last 20 years, mobos have leapt from being nastier than houses, to being a bit better than houses, in many respects. Ergonomics, appearance, fitout, higloss wood, nice loos with lectric things in fifty footers etc that make these able to cross the channel or quite comfy if it rains and we only fancy a short bimble in the solent. DON'T say that sailyboats can't do it cos of performance cos these need not cost a whole load of weight and anywy the boats weigh weigh 10 tons anyway and only lean 30 degrees slowly, not crashity bang like a powerboat which included a load of nice galley gear which tend to go a biot further these days than a lot of hooks for some blimmin mugs. Mugs! Jeez, when was the last time you ate out and had a drink in a Mug? In a greasy spoon, that's where, and that's about the comfort level of all production sailboats - truckers might find it quite nice. But not swmbos. Not even Trucker swmbos, in fact.

Hey - and this ain't an anti speaking here. So, no need to be sniffy!

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[ccscott49]

Re: sailors

Cup of tea/coffee, from a proper cup and saucer! Yes, now your talking!!

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[ericw]

Re: ac/dc

Personally, I hope they stay away from sailing !

Maybe some of us like sailing because we're traditionalists and don't mind putting up with such massive 'hardships' like ropes/shrouds getting in the way.

Maybe some of us like a bit of physical exercise, being closer to nature and escaping the constant obsession with speed portayed by a large majority of the population in most walks of life.

Sailing, like most worthwhile sports/activities is thoroughly enjoyable if you can be bothered to make an effort.

I wish you luck in achieving the desired improvements to yachts, but maybe taking the SWMBO hiking and camping for a weekend would prove that a lack of these modern 'necessities' does not preclude having a good time.

Anyway I thought Bavaria were already building highly desirable yachts that the whole of the world wants.... take your ideas to them. They are good at pandering to the needs of the majority !

Happy boating,

Eric.

<hr width=100% size=1>www.HarryHindsight.com

 

[sailbadthesinner]

Re: okay then, wine spilling

i think you are correct
but i think designers still feel that coskpit should be able to be spartan enough so if caught out in big sea does not take half an hour to get the cockpit ready to take waves
i think the headset that they should be saily boats first and accomodation second persists when quite clearly lots of them are the total opposite.


<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>if guinness is good for you. i must be very very good</font color=red>

 

[tcm]

Re: Why hardly anyone buy a catamaran

Cos they look crap. All of them, even the ones that try and hide the fact that they are a cat. For the same reason canal boats, some powerboats, some motorsailers, some sailyboats, most aerorigs don't sell in great qty. They look crap. Not sexy. Not summink that swmbo can invite mates along and they say wow, even if never been on a boat, ever.

First rule of boats (that anyone wants to sell, rather than keep for themselves) is that they have to look the part. Bavaria pass quite easily on this barrier. They look the part.

Motorboatwise, quite a lot don't look the part (especially some yank boats) but the bigger sellers in Europe do. European boats sell quite well in america too. Anyone buy a last-shape Granada? Nope. Cos despite being ace from the inside with lots of gear, they looked crap from the outside so they stopped making them. I could mention several pigugly fatgit brit built £100k+ mobos here, and they know who they are cos the models are either out of production or the compnay has gone bust.

And even zefender too- the ghastly cream colour on an Island Packet - it matters.

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[ccscott49]

Re: Why hardly anyone buy a catamaran

Did you see that beautiful perini in barcelona, next to the office, now that has to be the sexiest sailboat I've ever seen! The cheoy lee 63's are nice also, but more my style than yours.

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[wakeup]

\"Personally, I hope they stay away from sailing !\"

QED, sailing will never really improve to be a rewarding and inclusive past time with this sort of attitude. The last vestiges of white anglo saxon protistents i'm afraid. Yes I know I am probably completely un-clubable!!!

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[sailbadthesinner]

Re: Why hardly anyone buy a catamaran

funny the bigger one look worse than the small ones
but they do go fast and no tippy uppy motion and there is a proper galley in there
and the girls can go in there and do stuff whilst travelling along wihtout being too hot and too cramped and they can see the sea. plus lots of decent space in fridges and ice and poer cold storage for beer in cockpit and lots space to lounge about on and i am on it looking out not off it looking in
and i am only chartering
so i like them
would i buy one
no


<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>if guinness is good for you. i must be very very good</font color=red>