Is this on?

[snooks]

I read this thread with dismay. Some poor yacht crew tired after a long journey can't even raft up to another boat quietly and use the onshore facilities without their neighbour tutting and ranting. And then they can't even slip their lines early to catch a tidal gate without their actions being questioned. A sad day for Solent yachting.

I hardly think I'm ranting, tutting may be If I was as bothered as you suggest I would have said something, I didn't, I went back to sleep. I'm fully aware not everyone chooses to sail around at 1 am in the morning, and they had prolly crossed the channel, but that doesn't exempt them from the Yarmouth harbour rules and regulations that everyone else had to adhere to.

I think it's a sad day for Solent yachting when people take liberties and enter a harbour that is closed to everyone else.

Why should they be allowed to enter at 1am, when everyone from say 1900 onwards had been turned away? Is that fair to all the other yachts that weren't allowed to enter harbour that evening?

Why should I pay £10 odd extra on top of my berthing fee for the walk ashore facilities, and they should get away without paying a penny? Is that fair to everyone else who has had to pay for their berth in the harbour that night?

May be if I were to anchor in the fairway of Cowes harbour because I wanted to catch a tidal gate that's all right with you?

 

[kingfisher]

Always worth leaving a tender tied on alongside.

Aaaaah, this is the part where I use your tender as a giant fender. Or where I drop off a crew member on the yacht, who then moves the tender, so that I can moor alongside.

Who do you think you are? Sole owner of the pontoon? If you want exclusivity: get a box. If you're moored alongside, expect someone to raft up.

And I know how to deal with the "You can't raft here, we're leaving at 0500hrs"

 

[Danny Jo]

Unbelievable (must be a troll). I'm simply cannot understand how someone in their right mind can be so bitter as to cut the lines of a boat. It's attitudes like this that create bad feeling all round. Life is too short without getting stressed about relatively small issues like this. This, and other stresses about racing fleets and the like amaze me.

Yes, on reflection, I think we've been had. The key is his statement:

"No-one has complained to me about cutting their lines so far so they must know they are guilty to start of (sic) with."

Anyone psychopathic enough to cut another boat's warps isn't going to give a damn about other people's judgement of such vandalism.

A troll for sure, but I wouldn't describe it as a good one.

 

[curve]

Why should I pay £10 odd extra on top of my berthing fee for the walk ashore facilities, and they should get away without paying a penny? Is that fair to everyone else who has had to pay for their berth in the harbour that night?

Then that it is the fault of the harbour authority and not the crews who need to berth outside of 'office' hours.

May be if I were to anchor in the fairway of Cowes harbour because I wanted to catch a tidal gate that's all right with you?

How on earth does that compare to rafting up inside a harbour?

 

[snooks]

How on earth does that compare to rafting up inside a harbour?

It was an example of not following the harbour rules and regulations to catch a tidal gate. Something you suggested was all right in your previous post

 

[curve]

It was an example of not following the harbour rules and regulations to catch a tidal gate. Something you suggested was all right in your previous post

It does not compare one single bit. The two situations are completely different.

 

[snooks]

It does not compare one single bit. The two situations are completely different.

Why?

The chappie next to me was narrowing the fairway in the harbour by rafting up where he shouldn't. He had entered the harbour when entry was temporarily suspended, and not obeyed the harbour byelaws

By anchoring in Cowes Fairway I would be breaking the byelaws of Cowes harbour and narrowing the fairway, I thought it was a good comparrison

 

[curve]

The chappie next to me was narrowing the fairway in the harbour by rafting up where he shouldn't. He had entered the harbour when entry was temporarily suspended, and not obeyed the harbour byelaws

Perhaps he had permission from the Harbourmaster to enter and to raft in that position. Perhaps he paid his harbour dues over the phone by card.

By anchoring in Cowes Fairway I would be breaking the byelaws of Cowes harbour and narrowing the fairway, I thought it was a good comparrison

It wasn't.

 

[islandsailor]

I actually don't see a problem at all, I don't think twice about rafting up when somewhere is congested. It's possible the boat Snooks complains of was (wrongly imo) trying to be thoughtful by not attaching shorelines at 1.30am in order to reduce multi tramples across Snooks deck. Snooks himself says they were quiet so what is the problem? Before this thread I'd never considered not rafting up, neither have I ever shooed anyone away to stop them rafting alongside me. I have occasionally suggested using shorelines but usually this has been to inexperienced crews, never caused or received back any unpleasantness and remember, we were all inexperienced at one time or another.

I can honestly say that in 50 years of sailing I've never encountered or handed out any unpleasantness, sailing for me is about relaxing and enjoying the ambience of whatever situation arises without reacting adversely simply because another crew acts in a way I might not. Just accept the situation. I'm obviously not talking about extreme cases of unsocial behaviour such as loud music and drunken hi-jinks at 3.00am, nor am I talking about acts which put my (or their) boat at risk of damage, I'm just talking about much lesser annoyances (to some people) caused by perception not reality.

The reality is, in a crowded harbour someone (possibly me) is quite likely to raft alongside. What's the actual problem apart from the fact you personally don't want them there? And at 1.30am, do you really want me knocking on your deck to ASK if you mind me rafting alongside?

Cheers, Brian.

Well said Brian

 

[curve]

Well said Brian

I agree 100%. I wish more people like you with gallons of common sense and deceny sailed into Yarmouth.

 

[islandsailor]

Just to clarify, I don't have any problem with rafting up in an area where everyone else is rafted up, I'll happily raft and be rafted, it's a good way of meeting people and having a chat, I don't always insist on shorelines, although I will always (if possible) run lines ashore...Rude not to IMHO...for the simple reason that you can't trust anyone to tie up their boat properly

What I objected to was being woken up by someone who thought the the Harbour Full sign didn't apply to them, and then raft along side me where rafting isn't allowed.

From the Yarmouth Harbour website:

But they could have had the same problem with the computer you encountered

 

[islandsailor]

I hardly think I'm ranting, tutting may be If I was as bothered as you suggest I would have said something, I didn't, I went back to sleep. I'm fully aware not everyone chooses to sail around at 1 am in the morning, and they had prolly crossed the channel, but that doesn't exempt them from the Yarmouth harbour rules and regulations that everyone else had to adhere to.

I think it's a sad day for Solent yachting when people take liberties and enter a harbour that is closed to everyone else.

Why should they be allowed to enter at 1am, when everyone from say 1900 onwards had been turned away? Is that fair to all the other yachts that weren't allowed to enter harbour that evening?

Why should I pay £10 odd extra on top of my berthing fee for the walk ashore facilities, and they should get away without paying a penny? Is that fair to everyone else who has had to pay for their berth in the harbour that night?

May be if I were to anchor in the fairway of Cowes harbour because I wanted to catch a tidal gate that's all right with you?

Snooks,

When I occasionally stay in Yarmouth I book and pay for the berth in advance, as this yacht may have done?

 

[snooks]

But they could have had the same problem with the computer you encountered

I went to book the walkashore, becuase the booking system said there were 14 booked and 1 free, I tried booking it but at the time of booking the computer said the 15 bookable berths were full, and my card hadn't been charged, I phoned to check and the lady on the phone said that all the berths had gone. We went along to Yarmouth on the off chance we could get in, if we couldn't we would have gone to Lymington

All booked places are forfeited after 1900 IIRC

The harbour patrols were having a chat, and one said that he was just waiting for two more boats, one called Pixie, and one called summut else. "Pixie?" the other one said "there's a boat on A11 called Pixie" so the friendly chappie comes down and asks if we'd booked...I explained the fun I'd had booking it on tinterweb and he said they couldn't be sure whether it was me or not....but they did have a phone number of the boat that had booked, he went back to the office and got them to call me and the other boat to see where we were. my phone rang and the berth I thought we hadn't booked was ours, we untied our shorelines cast off the others and then moored up where we stayed the night. The boat other the harbour master was waiting for came in just before the cut off time.

I can say with 100% confidence that the marina wasn't expecting our neighbours, and if they had been, our neighbours would have lucked out after the walk ashore cut off time.

 

[awol]

Snooks

I'm getting confused. Are you annoyed with this boat 'cos it disturbed your sleep, or, are you annoyed because it broke harbour bye-laws, may have got away without paying, and generally didn't stick to "the rules"?

If the former - tough! If the latter - report the boat by name to the harbour authorities and stop whinging.

 

[mikeotteau]

I am afraid you have got it all wrong, if you cut another boat's warps you can, and if you cut mine you would, be charged with criminal damage. If you untied the warps and set the boat adrift the charge would be reckless endangerment. You have NO rights to arbitrarily do as you would like folk to think you would.

You are the type of git that wakes up in the morning and tries to set sail only to find someone (some kind sailor/diver) has tied a length of rope round one's prop and even worse finds his engine overheats cos the same kind sailor/diver had pumped a full cartridge of sikaflex into your engine's cooling water intake during the night.

What is the saying - Nemo Me Impuni Lacassit? or in the gaelic "Cha togar m' fhearg gun dìoladh"

Now YOU decide how much YOU want to risk cutting or untying the warps of a strange yacht!

I am afraid it is you who have no rights to arbtrarily tie on to my boat and cause damage or risk the lives of those on board.
You can always ask, and I have yet to refuse anyone who has, but would do so if I thought their boat was too heavy for the circumstances to raft to my boat but nothwithstanding a request you have no right to attach any lines to my boat and I AM entitled to remove any lines so attached.
The lines would be cut if I needed to remove lines under tension safely rather than risk my hands untying them.
You still avoid the point of those who raft onto others boats and cause damage but dont pay for it. Have you done this and then skulked away in the wee hours leaving some poor sod to fix his boat at his own expense and leave his mooring cleats unfit for use ?

 

[snooks]

Snooks

I'm getting confused.

As I said in my op:

Is wanting to use an onshore toilet, and avoid paying for a berth a good enough reason to disturb another crew?

I've got the hump because they accessed the harbour when entry was suspended, moored where they shouldn't have, and woke us all up in the process.

They shouldn't have been there and I need my beauty sleep

 

[emnick]

Snooks

If you want a quiet night go to a Hotel or B&B.

A few years ago I charterd a boat, we went across to Cowes, I was new to sailing. SWMBO got a bad migrane, I stopped on a pontoon which was empty only to be shouted at by some fool that it was a private mooring. I continued and tied up then confronted him, explained the situation and he apologised.

Recently we were in Holland, rafting is the done thing, I agree that at 01:30 its rude to trample over peoples decks but how do you know the circumstances? Its to be expected if you sail.

As for dinghys on the beam, they make a good fender IMHO.

And as for Mr Brave 'MIKEOTTEAU' must be a troll or if not amazing how brave people are behind their computer screens. I agree with previous poster beware if you cut or let peoples lines go !! bad 'luck' may follow??

I like the sikaflex one never thought of that!

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Problem for you is it sounds as if you had some sailers alongside rather than caravaners.
Seems from your explanation that they did things reasonably quietly and were then on their way.
I usualy dislike rafting up but sometimes I too need to go into harbours / marinas etc to keep guests and SWMBO happy e.g.showers etc...Then you more or less have to put up with those who are reasonably well behaved going about their hobby. Ocassionally though you can meet the most pleasant people too.
It's those that get up at 8a.m. or sooner and start up a generator on their stern deck right close to you, or those who party late into the night being far noisier than they would if they were out at anchor with not a soul to show off to that are a greater pain.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I am afraid it is you who have no rights to arbtrarily tie on to my boat and cause damage or risk the lives of those on board.
You can always ask, and I have yet to refuse anyone who has, but would do so if I thought their boat was too heavy for the circumstances to raft to my boat but nothwithstanding a request you have no right to attach any lines to my boat and I AM entitled to remove any lines so attached.
The lines would be cut if I needed to remove lines under tension safely rather than risk my hands untying them.
You still avoid the point of those who raft onto others boats and cause damage but dont pay for it. Have you done this and then skulked away in the wee hours leaving some poor sod to fix his boat at his own expense and leave his mooring cleats unfit for use ?

Mikeotteau may have a point about permission as this has always been my understanding i.e. you don't have a right. I was taught that a Skipper can refuse you to come along side if there is a risk to his vessel e.g. a big vessel with overhangs (e.g otter boards) along side a smaller yacht.

I would be furious if I found my vessel inside of another boat which was damaging my boat and I guess many of us would be too. I would take steps to remedy the situation but I would only cast adrift the outer vessel if there was a real risk of loosing the integrity of my yacht or life was threatened; a situation which is not likely in most of my sailing areas. I would make an attempt at some how securing the other vessel first.

In my own case if I come back from the pub and find another vessel along side, without permission, and not risking my own boat in any way, I wouldnt get upset by it.

 

[Elemental]

As I said in my op:
I've got the hump because they accessed the harbour when entry was suspended, moored where they shouldn't have, and woke us all up in the process.

They shouldn't have been there and I need my beauty sleep

They are sailing at 0100. Possibly the crew is tired and perhaps they didn't originally plan to stay out late and are only out because their passage took longer than expected. Maybe the skipper is overcome with fatigue/seasickness. They bolt into the nearest port for some kip, find no empty berths and so perform an accepted practice, behave quietly and reasonably, grab a few hours sleep and go on their way.

You really do need to get a life...