Refueler
Well-Known Member
Maybe today we swap out starter .....
Darn it ...... bl***y engine wont start - want to lift out boat.
- Thread starter Refueler
- Start date
Bouba
Well-Known Member
I can tell you exactly what your problem is.....you have too many toys... and keeping them all maintained at once is too much
Boathook
Well-Known Member
Drive up and offer to helpI can tell you exactly what your problem is.....you have too many toys... and keeping them all maintained at once is too much
A thread on your drive up should be good explaining the virtues of the Tesla.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
Today - a bl***y disaster ...
Range Rover died .... drove down garden to boat with tools ..... stopped engine - later refused to start .. totally dead. Took Volvo and connected jump leads ... still wouldn't start ..
Put battery tester on - battery dead ... ?????
Now have the terrible job of swapping out battery on the RR ... not a simple job. And only AGM battery as well ...
Have a look on Youtube for changing battery on a 2012 RR 4.4TDV8 ..... not something for the faint hearted !!
There's me trying to get RR going ... my mate offers to remove starter from boat ... tries bolts with old repaired starter .. don't fit. Its sunday - so wait till tomorrow to get new bolts.
I go up to house to get some things ... Wife stops me - Drying machine not working ... I check - get it working - but it fails to dry clothes ...
UGH !!!!!!!
Range Rover died .... drove down garden to boat with tools ..... stopped engine - later refused to start .. totally dead. Took Volvo and connected jump leads ... still wouldn't start ..
Put battery tester on - battery dead ... ?????
Now have the terrible job of swapping out battery on the RR ... not a simple job. And only AGM battery as well ...
Have a look on Youtube for changing battery on a 2012 RR 4.4TDV8 ..... not something for the faint hearted !!
There's me trying to get RR going ... my mate offers to remove starter from boat ... tries bolts with old repaired starter .. don't fit. Its sunday - so wait till tomorrow to get new bolts.
I go up to house to get some things ... Wife stops me - Drying machine not working ... I check - get it working - but it fails to dry clothes ...
UGH !!!!!!!
Refueler
Well-Known Member
Guy fits starter ... I'm up to ears in getting Range Rover moved ....
Delivered RR to service on trailer - go home and slipped on wet pontoon - pulled thigh muscle in back of right leg ... Boy does that hurt. I manage to get to car and painfully drive back up garden to house ..
Luckily I have all sorts of painkillers and muscle tablets from my spine injury ...
I'm sitting at home wondering why its happening to me ... when my mate comes in :
Motor boat batterys are dead !! WHAT ???
Checked breaker in house .. yep - OFF.
Wife put breaker back ON ... must have tripped when we were playing with electric down there for the RR ...
Today - painkillers taken ... I drive down to boat - check Victron BT on phone .... batterys at storage - so they have charged back up ...
now hope that batterys are still ok ... they were both new this year.
Delivered RR to service on trailer - go home and slipped on wet pontoon - pulled thigh muscle in back of right leg ... Boy does that hurt. I manage to get to car and painfully drive back up garden to house ..
Luckily I have all sorts of painkillers and muscle tablets from my spine injury ...
I'm sitting at home wondering why its happening to me ... when my mate comes in :
Motor boat batterys are dead !! WHAT ???
Checked breaker in house .. yep - OFF.
Wife put breaker back ON ... must have tripped when we were playing with electric down there for the RR ...
Today - painkillers taken ... I drive down to boat - check Victron BT on phone .... batterys at storage - so they have charged back up ...
now hope that batterys are still ok ... they were both new this year.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
OK ... managed to get on board - painkillers are wonderful ! - but we have a problem of solenoid design ... why do they change solenoid ends ??
Connections made as per previous - but one white cable not - where to put ... I know this cable is important for the Key start ...
Put on a free spade ... nothing ... something doesn't look right ... so I disconnect one wire that looks wrong .. put white cable there .. still no life at key - but console is alive ..
Put white cable to another terminal that before was not used .. nothing ..
Put red cable back to terminal that should have white - starter engaged and turned engine WITHOUT touching key !!
Carefully looking - the red cable is crimped to the battery cable + to solenoid ...
Have studied photo's ... yes I take photos before disconnect ....
Finally - what was plainly in view in photos - but could not see the wood for the trees ... Red cable should go to the FUSE next to starter - which then powers the key ignition !!
Guy went back to boat ... white cable where I said .. red cable now connected to fuse ... BINGO ! Engine spins over really well. Batterys appear to have recovered OK.
Will leave boat for a day or so till I can move a bit better with the leg ... when I drive car - I have pain when pushing brake pedal ..
We have about a week of mild weather - so no rush ...
Connections made as per previous - but one white cable not - where to put ... I know this cable is important for the Key start ...
Put on a free spade ... nothing ... something doesn't look right ... so I disconnect one wire that looks wrong .. put white cable there .. still no life at key - but console is alive ..
Put white cable to another terminal that before was not used .. nothing ..
Put red cable back to terminal that should have white - starter engaged and turned engine WITHOUT touching key !!
Carefully looking - the red cable is crimped to the battery cable + to solenoid ...
Have studied photo's ... yes I take photos before disconnect ....
Finally - what was plainly in view in photos - but could not see the wood for the trees ... Red cable should go to the FUSE next to starter - which then powers the key ignition !!
Guy went back to boat ... white cable where I said .. red cable now connected to fuse ... BINGO ! Engine spins over really well. Batterys appear to have recovered OK.
Will leave boat for a day or so till I can move a bit better with the leg ... when I drive car - I have pain when pushing brake pedal ..
We have about a week of mild weather - so no rush ...
jon and michie
Well-Known Member
Sounds like a right carry on that you had
Refueler
Well-Known Member
The original starter motor / solenoid was unreliable and would often leave me stranded .. then without any reason - work again.
I had a retired mechanic take the starter away and he reckoned it was a poor solenoid along with the starter cog not meshing properly.
He replaced cog and fitted to boat .. it was better but still on average 1x in 5 - the starter would not mesh properly ... so he replaced the solenoid ..
It was roughly same .. so I left it for that season.
After winter talking to another English guy here - he reckoned he would fix it .. he checked it over - starter motor / solenoid fired up ok when powered - but the odd meshing incident continued ...
I then decided enough was enough and bought a new starter and solenoid complete ... guy fitted it ...
Now I had starter that engaged every time ... but it had a quirk ... sometimes the starter would turn engine slow as if battery was down .. then next key turn be full speed again ... but it started the engine.
Till this scenario ... where the starter just gave up ...
Guy who sails with me - we were going to remove starter and to give it to electrical guy to check out, but decided to give the original starter and its original and later solenoid ...
Original starter was good ... but original solenoid had been damaged by water ingress. The replacement solenoid was not correct as ithe throw of the 'arm' was too short and reason for not meshing properly.
He replaced the contact terminal end of the original solenoid .. tested and gave it 101% thumbs up.
We removed the non-working starter and fitted repaired original. I asked my mate to give the non-working starter for checks - to make sure we did not have a cable fault ... starter and solenoid were not working .. in fact his verdict was that starter was not man enough for the job - even though it was sold as a B30 AQ170 replacement unit.
This actually agreed with impression .. when starters were side by side ... the replacement starter was slightly smaller ... I think seller mixed it up with the B20 AQ130 unit ..
Once the cables were sorted ... (why they have to alter solenoid end designs ???) .. we now have a working unit ...
I had a retired mechanic take the starter away and he reckoned it was a poor solenoid along with the starter cog not meshing properly.
He replaced cog and fitted to boat .. it was better but still on average 1x in 5 - the starter would not mesh properly ... so he replaced the solenoid ..
It was roughly same .. so I left it for that season.
After winter talking to another English guy here - he reckoned he would fix it .. he checked it over - starter motor / solenoid fired up ok when powered - but the odd meshing incident continued ...
I then decided enough was enough and bought a new starter and solenoid complete ... guy fitted it ...
Now I had starter that engaged every time ... but it had a quirk ... sometimes the starter would turn engine slow as if battery was down .. then next key turn be full speed again ... but it started the engine.
Till this scenario ... where the starter just gave up ...
Guy who sails with me - we were going to remove starter and to give it to electrical guy to check out, but decided to give the original starter and its original and later solenoid ...
Original starter was good ... but original solenoid had been damaged by water ingress. The replacement solenoid was not correct as ithe throw of the 'arm' was too short and reason for not meshing properly.
He replaced the contact terminal end of the original solenoid .. tested and gave it 101% thumbs up.
We removed the non-working starter and fitted repaired original. I asked my mate to give the non-working starter for checks - to make sure we did not have a cable fault ... starter and solenoid were not working .. in fact his verdict was that starter was not man enough for the job - even though it was sold as a B30 AQ170 replacement unit.
This actually agreed with impression .. when starters were side by side ... the replacement starter was slightly smaller ... I think seller mixed it up with the B20 AQ130 unit ..
Once the cables were sorted ... (why they have to alter solenoid end designs ???) .. we now have a working unit ...
Refueler
Well-Known Member
Engine starts ..... but with that overlong throttle cable - the throttle is not suitable to trust for trip down river .... so despite the pain .. we swapped out to the correct length cable ... adjusted and now throttle is good.
BUT we have a strange action on starter .... turn key and CLICK >> turn key - CLICK >>> turn key -CLICK from solenoid .. then turn key and engine turns and starts ..
We think that having that short stroke solenoid - which often had bendix cog not meshing properly may have damaged ring gear - so that now bendix cog sticks on ring gear and keep hitting key makes it free up and then work .. need to talk to mechanic see what they reckon - we hope that repeated use may clear this ... but its a boat !! Last thing I want to do is have to lift out engine to sort ring gear ..
River trip to slipway for trailer is now planned for the weekend ... climbing and contorting in engine bay today has made me feel a bit ill and legs are giving me 'gyp' !
BUT we have a strange action on starter .... turn key and CLICK >> turn key - CLICK >>> turn key -CLICK from solenoid .. then turn key and engine turns and starts ..
We think that having that short stroke solenoid - which often had bendix cog not meshing properly may have damaged ring gear - so that now bendix cog sticks on ring gear and keep hitting key makes it free up and then work .. need to talk to mechanic see what they reckon - we hope that repeated use may clear this ... but its a boat !! Last thing I want to do is have to lift out engine to sort ring gear ..
River trip to slipway for trailer is now planned for the weekend ... climbing and contorting in engine bay today has made me feel a bit ill and legs are giving me 'gyp' !
Hunterlees
Well-Known Member
Might be worth contacting these people for a high output starter although I know you are not in the uk. I previously got one to fit my bmc 1.5d and it transformed its starting..
https://www.wosperformance.co.uk/starter-motors
https://www.wosperformance.co.uk/starter-motors
Refueler
Well-Known Member
I don't think a higher output starter is needed - the starter we have now is the original full power starter for the engine.
The problem is the bendix cog meshing into the ring gear ... we think that because its now meshing fully instead of the partial before - the 'unused' part of the ring gear / bendix cog are sticking ..
The problem is the bendix cog meshing into the ring gear ... we think that because its now meshing fully instead of the partial before - the 'unused' part of the ring gear / bendix cog are sticking ..
Refueler
Well-Known Member
Alex and I have been thinking / discussing this issue of the Click Click Click and then engine starting ... we know its not battery related - there's full twin battery setup with ample power.
As mentioned earlier - we considered that because starter previously has been not meshing fully - yjay may be why its now ... but the more you think about it - its highly unlikely.
I could not fit ther starter myself - having had the fall and pulling muscles .... Alex is no mechanic - but I trust him.
Yesterday I asked him about the starter and bolts - because when the new starter was fitted - previous guy had to use bolts with machined down shanks ... plus a nut on one at bolt head to shorten it ..
When Alex fitted starter other day - same thing .. machine down bolt shank ... but I don't think he added any nut to shorten.
My question was whether starter was hard up to engine face .. he said yes.
But today when he came to house - I think he's been thinking about it and had idea that maybe one bolt shank is 1mm or so too long ... but because bolt has gone fully in to end of thread - it feels correct .. and of course its fit to both starter holes and engine - makes it feel secure.
My problem is to find the original bolt which - I think I've found the one we could not use with new starter ...
It could explain the starters not wanting to mesh every time if the starter is just managing to move a tiny amount when power applied ..
As mentioned earlier - we considered that because starter previously has been not meshing fully - yjay may be why its now ... but the more you think about it - its highly unlikely.
I could not fit ther starter myself - having had the fall and pulling muscles .... Alex is no mechanic - but I trust him.
Yesterday I asked him about the starter and bolts - because when the new starter was fitted - previous guy had to use bolts with machined down shanks ... plus a nut on one at bolt head to shorten it ..
When Alex fitted starter other day - same thing .. machine down bolt shank ... but I don't think he added any nut to shorten.
My question was whether starter was hard up to engine face .. he said yes.
But today when he came to house - I think he's been thinking about it and had idea that maybe one bolt shank is 1mm or so too long ... but because bolt has gone fully in to end of thread - it feels correct .. and of course its fit to both starter holes and engine - makes it feel secure.
My problem is to find the original bolt which - I think I've found the one we could not use with new starter ...
It could explain the starters not wanting to mesh every time if the starter is just managing to move a tiny amount when power applied ..
