Insurance, help, advice, please

[Davy_S]

The insurance on my Vega is due in late May, I have been insured for four years with the same company. Towergate underwriters company is AXA. with no problems or claims. They have sent me a letter saying that I have to have the boat lifted out and a full survey and valuation carried out before they will renew the insurance. Now this will cost me more than the insurance premium, and as I have just lashed out on new sails, dodgers and self tailers I can well do without the extra cost. Has anyone else come across this, and is there a way out ? Any companies insure without full survey worth a try? Reccomendations gratefully received. Dave.

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[dieselhead]

yes insurance surveys are very common. companies usually ask for them around every 5 years or so

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[Evadne]

I too have to endure regular surveys (St Margaret's) because my boat is of a certain age. I have found that by sticking with them they have gradually increased the length of time between surveys (it was 4 years and I think it is now 6).
It is important that the surveyor understands that this is a survey for insurance purposes, to assess the condition of the boat and not a nit-picking, get-a-few-quid-knocked-off-the-price boat buyer's survey. The usual recommendation about going around with the surveyor applies, I've found, and it is rare for the insurance company to insist on immediate application of any recommendations.

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[Guest]

If you are willing to reduce to 3rd Party ...... try Basic Boat Liability ......

Most FULL insurance if they do not require a survey at regular intervals - will come down heavily in event of claim using all sorts of surveys then to reduce the cash paid out ..... don't believe it ? Sorry but I have a friend that happened to exactly .... I will not name him as its his place to decide whether to come out of hiding ....


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
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[Guest]

Problem is ....

Cars have MOT 's every year - so Insurance Co. already have a check on the car ...... BOats do not have same rules .... and basically can be in any state on the water without anyone to stop 'em.

How do you cover your risk if you are an insurance co ??


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
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[2_rollocks]

Re: Problem is ....

I take your point about MOTs, but for an insurance survey on my 32' boat I'll have to pay about £400 a bit different to £30 for a car MOT. It can't take that long to assess whether a boat is sea worthy? And I don't need a full blown written report which is what I guess will be produced.

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[Guest]

Re: Problem is ....

Take your point ...... but think on this :

a) Prof. Indemnity costs about 6 grand a year
b) Number of boats surveyed each day is tiny compared to number of cars going through a MOT station
c) Cars come TO the MOT station, surveyors go TO boats
d) If you presented a car to MOT tester in 'just out of water' state - he can refuse it .....

I am also subject to survey this year and have made decision to change insurance temporarily ..... as I refuse to pay lift-out, srub-off, and then lift-in ..... making my total package expensive. I have a small problem with my engine at moment so that makes it difficult to get the boat to a public slip to reduce costs ...... all in all a silly situation.



<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
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[2_rollocks]

Re: Problem is ....

Take your points as well but

a) Are you sure PI cover costs that much?

b) Yep certainly fewer boats surveyed per day, but at 10+ times the cost that shouldn't matter. If efficient it should be possible to do 2 per day. Also no premises costs unlike MOT stations.

c) Yes but mostly fairly local, again see point above re premises.

d) Hmmm...........

Now I'm not saying surveyors overcharge, if I were buying the boat I'd be happy to pay £400, but to have it done with no tangible benefit to me, not so happy. Therefore would still expect an intermediate level opf survey.

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[webcraft]

Hi Davy

I'm just about to have my Vega surveyed for the same reason, and it's a pain . . . in fact, I doubt if I will ever have it done again, I will instead look for 3rd party insurance.

I'm paying £270 - it's a local guy (Isle of Mull) and he's doing two Vegas at the same time. Another Oban based surveyor wanted £400 + VAT, while Steve Birch of the Vega Association says there is a man darn sarf who will survey Vegas for less than a third of that - so don't rush in choosing a surveyor, get a few quotes.

Good Luck,

Nick
Albin Vega 'Fairwinds' V1842

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[FullCircle]

Help is at hand....

I went to Essex Boat Jumble on Sunday, and there was a stand by DRL Marine Insurance Ltd.
As Second Chance is 25 years old and worth 4p or less (not for sale though) I have been through all the brokers for this years insurance.
So here goes
£136.25 fully comp. UK Excess £150, EU excess £250. They were quite happy to let me wander from Denmark to Spain, I only have to tell them so they will send me 'permission'.
Includes 2 million indemnity, and they DONT WANT A SURVEY, now or whenever, except 'in exceptional circumstances'.
I checked their policy inclusions/exclusions which are the standard Institute of London Underwriters terms for Yachts, subject to English law.

Very competitive rate, and they have a website www.drlmarine.com or 01692 583351.

I have to say that they were polite, courteous and gave me a quote instantly stood in the lee of their battered gazebo thing whilst it was trying to snow. I will be signing up soon as I need to renew.

I have absolutely no connection with the company, just a passionately interested user.

Jim




<hr width=100% size=1>Second Chance - First Love. 2nd Hand Wind Instruments for sale anyone?

 

[yoda]

Hi

Jimdew (se his post) seems to have hit the jackpot however I am with GJW direct and they do not ask for repeat surveys on lower value craft (mine is about £10k) I did have to write a report last year on wha I have done but that was it. Worth talking to them and see what tey can do for you.

Yoda

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[webcraft]

Re: Help is at hand....

DRL website is a bit of a dead loss . . . nothing there

- Nick

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[paulrossall]

Try K C Powell Tel 01702 470035. They are sailing/boating people and do not impose unreasonable conditions. IMHO They are the broker for the Macwesters Owners Association. If you do search on these forums on K C Powell you will get good reports.Paul

<hr width=100% size=1>" there is nothing-absolutely nothing-half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats".

 

[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

I paid under £200 for my insurance survey. Luckily being a cat I just moved her to a drying mooring for the survey.

For my next survey I have learnt the following points;

my surveyor did not have corgi gas registration, in order to cover his back he used a statement something like "The oven does not have flame outs and should be changed, it would be prudent to have the installation inspected by a corgi gas engineer" - This has caused me no end of problems since, I now have a clause on my policy negating any gas claims. Why, because it has proved niegh impossible to get a marine corgi inspector aboard without forking out for a full new survey.

Do have all paperwork available, such as age of standing rigging etc. This will be noted on the survey, without proof the surveyor will have to estimate age or make comments about unknown age, this will give headaches with your insurance.

<<<<

I did find the surveyor very accomodating, for instance I had wire running in all directions as I was in the middle of a rewire. I talked him through my intentions and he was happy about the work in progress. It was not like an MOT, there is no pass or fail, advice can be given and work I had completed in retrospect of this I just informed the insurance company.

Although my gas is now fully replaced, and I have followed the BSS as best I can, some things are not possible on an older yacht with a centre cockpit!, I am still having problems with my insurance, so do check this before booking your surveyor.

<hr width=100% size=1>Julian

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk>Top Cat Homepage</A>

 

[chriscallender]

Last year I felt a bit like you about having a survey done. I had 3rd party insurance but couldn't sleep easy knowing the boat was on a swinging mooring and if it broke loose or was nicked no boat anymore. I wasn't so worried about damage when I was on board since I feel at least that I have some control over that.

So to get insurance I got the survey done - the work required and recommendations were not too arduous - but the surveyor did spot a couple of vital issues around the sterngland and the lower rudder attachement to the skeg that I had missed. These were easy enough to put right but I had not spotted them despite (I think) being fairly practically minded. So afterwards my view was that it was £250 well spent to get the boat checked over carefully. Now I get comp insurance for not a lot more than the 3rd party insurance costs, and if the ins co wants a survey every 5 years or thereabouts, then it only works out at £50/year - provided that you can get it done without a special liftout.

Incidentally most of the survey can be done afloat, usually the surveyor can do the underwater parts with the boat in the slings over the boatyard's lunch hour, so you don't need to pay for a 2 way lift and block off if you are afloat.

Anyway I don't moan about surveys anymore - I think on the whole surveyors do a good job (of course there are some bad ones who shouldn't be doing the job at all but that happens in all walks of life) and for the work they put in the cost is reasonable. Since I do my own maintenance its really useful to have a second set of eyes overlooking the results.

Chris

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[qsiv]

Re: Problem is ....

I'm surprised PI is that LOW - certainly mine is MUCH more (but not the same business).

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[Davy_S]

Yipeeee! Sorted

First of all a big thanks to all the posters for all the advice. I gave DRL a ring and they do not need a survey. They are sending me a policy to have a look at, and have given me a better quote than my existing policy, but have an exess of £250 on mast and sails (I can live with that) So if the policy small print looks ok I will go along with that for this year, its fully comp. I will then think about a survey maybe next year. The forum comes good again! Now then what can I spend the money on that I would have had to spend on survey /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[longjohnsilver]

Re: Help is at hand....

Jim, thanks for the info, have just phoned DRL and whilst their quote is £60 a year more than I'm paying at present I don't need a survey, thus saving a fair bit and I am not required to move into a marina on 1st October, again saving more dosh. Chap at the end of the phone was far more helpful than my current brokers.

Lokks like I'll be moving there as well.

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[Guest]

I thouroughl;y recc'd KC Powell - but sadly must admit that I have left them over this very point ...... they are required by Underwriters to request me to survey the boat ....

KC P - I like them, they talk boat language etc. etc. - but they are held by their underwriters.

Ii will most certainly go back to them later when all things are settled and I have had survey done ...


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
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[Guest]

Re: Problem is ....

PI cover to aclose friend of mine - I dont take personal cover as I have company cover via partnership - his premium WAS 6K for this year.

Efficient to do 2 per day ...... ok if you are douing silhouettes / caprices etc. But larger boats should take at least the half day and more - then you have to add travel etc. Often you are travelling more than just local .... so in reality it is 1 per day ..... and thats if you are lucky - as many do not cover that many !! Fees are not all 400 and above ..... there are plenty out there doing for less.

MOt stations are within a general service facility normally and if you talk to the station owner - you'll find that many are not happy with fee levels and the investment necessary to have the licence ..... the MOT facility is actually partly subsidised by other work.

Intermediate level - fine - it is up to you to be specific about the survey before the guy starts and to agree it with him. We have another poster complaining about Gas Corgi etc. and the Surveyor not being Corgi registered ...... I don't know any Yacht Surveyor who is - there must be one I suppose - but actually sorry to say it - but both client and surveyor are wrong if the boat is not inland waterways ..... so now the mistake has compunded into an Insurance problem unnecessarliy if the agreement had been reached before survey that all points to be discussed etc. before report etc.

Sorry again - but many comments against surveyors could have been sorted better at survey time and agreement with the guy doing the job instead of moaning after.

I have seriously looked at whether I should continue UK surveys and honestly have difficulty justifying them now - my profit margin is slim at the end of the day. I know that many surveyors are looking at - particularly with increased P&I cover etc. Everyone likes a bargain - but its also costs another to give it ....

So now thats off my chest - I'll get back to considering how big a hammer I should use on my engine !!!!


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
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