Inherited a boat - which is shorting electrics onsite

[PeterJones77]

Hello

I have inherited a family member's boat (it's a barge sort). I know absolutely nothing about boats, but I do know that when its plugged into the electrics at the marina it's at, it's shorting out the rest of the marina.

Sadly as executors, we have to not only learn how to sell a boat, but also work out what the issue might be with the electronics. People, understandably, are less keen to buy a boat that can't be seen to connect to electricity

I'm not expecting anyone to be able to diagnose the issue for me (though would be great if you could!) but what sorts of things can I ask about, or check myself? We have people who are hands on and comfortable with electronics, but we just don't have the boat basics.

Thank you

 

[Refueler]

OK ... first :

Has the boat been moved to this marina from its previous location or has it usually been there ?

If its been in that Marina and in use by previous - then it could be a failed item on board. If its moved from a previous non marina location - it could be anything including wiring error.

What would I do ? I would go back to basics ...

1. Leave boat diconnected
2. Unplug / disconnect all appliances / items on board - that includes everything after the power socket where shore power plugs in.
3. Now you have 'nothing' to draw power ... connect to shore and see if that trips out Marina ... if it does - then there's a fault in the power cable or your socket.
4. Ok if power is still ok with 3. Disconnect and now reconnect only the RCD / Breaker box you may have ... nothing else. Connect power ... is power still on ? If not - then that box has problem.
5. If still OK ... disconnect power and now connect ONE item ... power on.

From now its basically a disconnect item ... connect next item .. power on ... power off ... disconnect item .. connect next item ... etc.

You work through each item that requires power INDIVIDUALLY till you find the item that trips the system.

A real pain in the **** ... but electrics and water are killers .....

Rarely seen nowadays - but if an old boat is moved to a modern marina - it may be how the earth is sorted on the boat - causing the Marina trip to action ...
Usually that would only trip your 'connection' not the whole Marina .. if its tripping out whole Marina - then something I think is seriously amiss !!

Others may have different ideas ... the above is just how I would attack this problem ... step by step eliminating one after other.

 

[VicS]

Hello

I have inherited a family member's boat (it's a barge sort). I know absolutely nothing about boats, but I do know that when its plugged into the electrics at the marina it's at, it's shorting out the rest of the marina.

Sadly as executors, we have to not only learn how to sell a boat, but also work out what the issue might be with the electronics. People, understandably, are less keen to buy a boat that can't be seen to connect to electricity

I'm not expecting anyone to be able to diagnose the issue for me (though would be great if you could!) but what sorts of things can I ask about, or check myself? We have people who are hands on and comfortable with electronics, but we just don't have the boat basics.

Thank you

Two things not clear.
Have you inherited the boat yourself or do you have the responsibility of disposing of it as executor.
If it is now yours it's up to you how you sort it out. A mate with some knowledge of mains electricity might be able to help. If you are disposing of it as executor then either declare that the electrical installation is faulty or get it sorted out by a properly qualified electrician at the estate's expense.

Second thing not clear is what you mean by "shorting out the rest of the marina". Is it tripping an mcb due to high current or is it tripping an rcd. I'd not expect an mcb upstream of the pontoon pedestal to trip but a sensitive rcd could.

The first thing to suspect and check or get checked in either case is the shore power lead itself.

 

[Refueler]

Having been Executor on a number of occasions - I have to agree with VicS ...

AS executor you have the right to have it sorted by the Estate - or just Declare that there is a Fault in the Electrics.

If it was my Executorship - I would decide to declare unless the possible financial benefit to estate is sufficient to warrant repairs.

 

[jac]

Having been Executor on a number of occasions - I have to agree with VicS ...

AS executor you have the right to have it sorted by the Estate - or just Declare that there is a Fault in the Electrics.

If it was my Executorship - I would decide to declare unless the possible financial benefit to estate is sufficient to warrant repairs.

I would also take this route. If someone in the family would like the boat then by all means diagnose and fix the issue yourselves but if no-one wants the boat then it can be a steep learning curve. I suspect that the reduction in value will be minimal ( a few k.)

if you haven't already, I would also have a chat with a local broker ( think of them as a cross between an estate agent and a solicitor specialising in the sale of boats.) if you have a word with your marina office they may have an onsite / recommended broker. DO make sure they are reputable ( something like membership of YBDSA) before signing anything. A broker should be able to advise on likely sale price with the issue as is and with the issue fixed. he may also know a decent marine electrician.

Then, when armed with the facts, you should be able to decide what to do.

Easy option would be to hand it over to a broker, as is, get them to sell it.
Best return is likely to be trace the issue, fix / remove the offending item and sell privately.

Only you know which is worth more to you.

 

[ylop]

What Refeuler said about diagnosis - but beware there may be things which are permanently connected like a battery charger or water heater (hopefully with an isolator switch but if its been DIY'd anything is possible. I'd say never discount the really simple - like its actually the supply cable rather than the boat that is faulty. Boat electrics are kind of a mix of car electrics and household electrics so if you've got "handy people" around diagnosing catastrophic faults with a multimeter shouldn't be too hard.

You said it was "barge style" - does that mean it's a narrow boat? There are specialist brokers dealing with canal boats. If the only problem with it is the wiring I doubt you will have any trouble selling it just now. However, if that means you can't show the rest of its is working (lights, heaters, engine starting etc) then I'd suggest it IS worth fixing it.

have a chat with a local broker ( think of them as a cross between an estate agent and a solicitor specialising in the sale of boats.)

Beware - they are NOT solicitors. They may well sort the paperwork side of things but they have no formal legal training, are not regulated by the SRA/Law Society etc, and will not have public liability insurance for any legal advice you might think they are providing.

 

[dunedin]

You don’t say where the boat is based, which might help. But electrics and water are potentially very dangerous.

I would get a professional boat electrician to have a look. Cost of fixing likely much less than the reduced value of a boat for sale with declared fault - and not sure whether would be considered “fit for sale” even if declared.
If advise location somebody may be able to suggest an engineer.

 

[Refueler]

My sequence actually tests cable from shore before anything else .... not uncommon for bad plug ..... or cable

Simple check before calling in the 'boys' ...

Always remember my Father giving an Electric Iron to local shop for repair ... we went to pub across the road ... repair guy appeared in pub about 20 mins later laughing ...

He admitted that he looked at the iron before checking the fuse !! Yep - fuse was blown.

 

[PeterJones77]

OK ... first :

Has the boat been moved to this marina from its previous location or has it usually been there ?

If its been in that Marina and in use by previous - then it could be a failed item on board. If its moved from a previous non marina location - it could be anything including wiring error.

What would I do ? I would go back to basics ...

1. Leave boat diconnected
2. Unplug / disconnect all appliances / items on board - that includes everything after the power socket where shore power plugs in.
3. Now you have 'nothing' to draw power ... connect to shore and see if that trips out Marina ... if it does - then there's a fault in the power cable or your socket.
4. Ok if power is still ok with 3. Disconnect and now reconnect only the RCD / Breaker box you may have ... nothing else. Connect power ... is power still on ? If not - then that box has problem.
5. If still OK ... disconnect power and now connect ONE item ... power on.

From now its basically a disconnect item ... connect next item .. power on ... power off ... disconnect item .. connect next item ... etc.

You work through each item that requires power INDIVIDUALLY till you find the item that trips the system.

A real pain in the **** ... but electrics and water are killers .....

Rarely seen nowadays - but if an old boat is moved to a modern marina - it may be how the earth is sorted on the boat - causing the Marina trip to action ...
Usually that would only trip your 'connection' not the whole Marina .. if its tripping out whole Marina - then something I think is seriously amiss !!

Others may have different ideas ... the above is just how I would attack this problem ... step by step eliminating one after other.

Two things not clear.
Have you inherited the boat yourself or do you have the responsibility of disposing of it as executor.


Second thing not clear is what you mean by "shorting out the rest of the marina". Is it tripping an mcb due to high current or is it tripping an rcd. I'd not expect an mcb upstream of the pontoon pedestal to trip but a sensitive rcd could.

Both - I'm a beneficiary in the will, and now have to sell a boat I cannot use (nothing against them, we just don't sail ourselves)

You said it was "barge style" - does that mean it's a narrow boat? There are specialist brokers dealing with canal boats.

Yes it is and we have a specialist broker in place.

Something I also can't find an answer to is what happens re taxation - I understand there's no VAT to pay on the boat as its considered a used good. But presumably the beneficiaries will have Capital Gains Tax or something in that order when they get the money? Or do we just collect the money and declare (?) it all when doing probate?

The brokers have asked me for bank account for the sold boat funds to go into but it doesn't sit right with me that that would be the 'end' of the story.

 

[xyachtdave]

Do you mean it’s tripping the RCD on the pontoon?

I’m trying to think of a fault where plugging your boat in takes out the rest of the marina, unlikely.

If its tripping the pontoon RCD when you plug your boat in, start with basics. The lead from pontoon to boat would be a good place to start, damage, moisture in the plug etc.

If it’s still doing it (as advice above) unplug everything you can find on the boat, battery chargers, water heaters etc and see if it’ll reset.

If that doesn’t give you a clue as to the source of problem, it’s above your pay grade and you’ll need an electrician.

 

[KevinV]

First things first - when was it last in working order, and what has changed since? It's surprising how often those two questions will give you the answer you need.

As suggested above, I'd start by checking the shore cable - it's the part of the system most subject to abuse and damage. Also worth trying a different pontoon socket if you can - the fault may lie there.

If it isn't the cable then my next call would be to a domestic electrician - the problem is almost certainly on the 240v side, so nothing to do with specific boaty bits.

Don't go mucking about with it yourself, that's not an executor's job and you don't sound as if you're starting from much knowledge /experience of electrics - and if you cause any damage you'll be in a jolly awkward situation.

Selling with totally non-functioning electrics would, I suspect, knock a huge chunk off the sale value, but that isn't actually your problem as executor - you are just responsible for disposing of it (as is) as well as you can.

 

[ylop]

. Cost of fixing likely much less than the reduced value of a boat for sale with declared fault - and not sure whether would be considered “fit for sale” even if declared.

in what sense does a boat have to be fit for sale? Agree that at least making a fault safe is unlikely to be more expensive than the value difference, but that doesn’t count the time that you may spend chasing tradespeople, travelling across the country to get to the boat you have no interest in (as an executor), the potential extra time the boat may spend in a marina and running up insurance bill etc, it might not be as clear cut!

 

[Tranona]

Both - I'm a beneficiary in the will, and now have to sell a boat I cannot use (nothing against them, we just don't sail ourselves)




Yes it is and we have a specialist broker in place.

Something I also can't find an answer to is what happens re taxation - I understand there's no VAT to pay on the boat as its considered a used good. But presumably the beneficiaries will have Capital Gains Tax or something in that order when they get the money? Or do we just collect the money and declare (?) it all when doing probate?

The brokers have asked me for bank account for the sold boat funds to go into but it doesn't sit right with me that that would be the 'end' of the story.

No tax implications on the sale. It is just another chattel that is an asset of the estate. You cannot sell it until you have probate but you need a value for probate. This will be what the broker thinks he will be able to sell it for minus his commission - in other words the expected cash that will be part of the estate. The estate itself may of course be liable to inheritance tax, but the fact that part of the estate is a boat is irrelevant. are you handling the estate yourself or using a solicitor? If the latter then he will collect the money. If yourself then I assume you have already opened an executor account and this is where the broker will transfer the final proceeds.

The broker will ask you for evidence that you have good title to the boat - hopefully the deceased has kept documentation. The key document is evidence s/he owned the boat normally a formal Bill of Sale from the previous owner. When the broker sells the boat he will first get a deposit which he will hold in a client account. It normally takes a few weeks for the process which will ,probably include a survey. On completion he will prepare a Bill of Sale in favour of the buyer which transfers title from you as executor to him. The broker collects the money, adds it to the deposit, deducts his commission and transfers the balance to your executor account for you to distribute to the beneficiaries.

If the broker is a professional he will know how the process works.

 

[Momac]

Something I also can't find an answer to is what happens re taxation - I understand there's no VAT to pay on the boat as its considered a used good. But presumably the beneficiaries will have Capital Gains Tax or something in that order when they get the money? Or do we just collect the money and declare (?) it all when doing probate?

The brokers have asked me for bank account for the sold boat funds to go into but it doesn't sit right with me that that would be the 'end' of the story.

You need to understand your responsibilities as executor.
You need to value the estate of the deceased including all money and property
If the value of all property and money after funeral costs is less than £325k there is no inheritance tax.
If the deceased was married and was widowed their former spouses allowance would be passed on.
Inheritance Tax | Income and Tax | Age UK.

So yes sell the boat and declare the sum as part of the estate on the probate form.
Basically you are trusted on your word by the probate service . But if you get it wrong you could be held liable.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Hello

I have inherited a family member's boat (it's a barge sort). I know absolutely nothing about boats, but I do know that when its plugged into the electrics at the marina it's at, it's shorting out the rest of the marina.

Sadly as executors, we have to not only learn how to sell a boat, but also work out what the issue might be with the electronics. People, understandably, are less keen to buy a boat that can't be seen to connect to electricity

I'm not expecting anyone to be able to diagnose the issue for me (though would be great if you could!) but what sorts of things can I ask about, or check myself? We have people who are hands on and comfortable with electronics, but we just don't have the boat basics.

Thank you

Hi PJ , might ask that , in your interests , post a photo of the craft in question , it will explain a lot to us boaters , which will help you a lot .
might also ask , are you intent upon raising the assets /value of deceased , ( by improoving the assets) or just being helpfull , to their estate , or just wanting to be helpfull ?
My guess if you know nothing of Craft /boats then its best for all concerned if you use a broker to handle the sale , or a good boatyard , who should know whats what for you

 

[William_H]

As said it is unlikely the whole marina electrics shut down. OP may be confused with shut down of individual supply unit for this boat. (this is what should protect the rest of the marina or collection of supplies) This will contain an over current sensor and an earth leakage sensor. Suggestions about disconnecting all plugged in devices is good. However as said water heater is often wired in not plugged in. Heater elements have a habit of corroding where they get hot and shorting to the earthed body. This will operate the earth leakage sensor and also possibly the over current sensor. But also could be as said battery charger hard wired into mains. ol'will

 

[PaulRainbow]

Ref "whole marina electrics shut down " and assertions that it is unlikely to happen.

It might not be common, but i've certainly seen it happen. Faults that cause an RCD to trip can have slightly random results, i've seen them trip something that shuts down a whole section of big marinas, could easily shut down an entire small one, whilst the RCD on the boat and on the pontoon connection have not tripped.

I'd suggest this particular issue is best left to someone qualified.

 

[Refueler]

Both - I'm a beneficiary in the will, and now have to sell a boat I cannot use (nothing against them, we just don't sail ourselves)




Yes it is and we have a specialist broker in place.

Something I also can't find an answer to is what happens re taxation - I understand there's no VAT to pay on the boat as its considered a used good. But presumably the beneficiaries will have Capital Gains Tax or something in that order when they get the money? Or do we just collect the money and declare (?) it all when doing probate?

The brokers have asked me for bank account for the sold boat funds to go into but it doesn't sit right with me that that would be the 'end' of the story.

Have you no Solicitor appointed advising ?? Its a slippery road and each time I was Executor / Beneficiary - there was a Solicitor overseeing all to ensure compliance. Not cheap - but makes sure all goes correctly.

When I was Excecutor for my Mothers estate ... one of my brothers passed away - we three sons were beneficiarys. The mess that then ensued when his eldest daughter took on as Next of Kin - I was so glad to have that Solicitor ...... terrible to say this about 'family' - but she was a scheming selfish little brat who didn't care about anything except the money. She even refused my Brothers wishes to have Ashes spread where Mothers ..... I had to fight via Solicitors to have his Ashes divided so I could carry out his wishes.
She and her Mother (Brothers separated wife) had thrown him out of the house a year earlier - disowned him. Till of course the cash bells rang.

Sorry to tell this - but Executor job is not always so easy.

 

[Stemar]

I'm normally all in favour of having a go, but the OP's questions suggest a limited understanding of mains electricity, especially on boats. I'm going to guess that a "barge type boat" is steel construction, which adds a further layer of care needed. By all means borrow a known good lead to try, and unplug anything that can be unplugged, but I can't help thinking that anything much beyond that would be better left to someone who knows what they're doing.

 

[Boater Sam]

First stop is the lead to the shore point. They are often full of water in the plugs. Especially if they have been left connected a long time.