ashtead
Well-known member
Thanks for that - you might be asking Mr Keeling of his views as to the 2nd as he is always worth studying even if bobbing around the Solent pond pf a weekend.
Independence | Upadates & Cruising
- Thread starter londonrascal
- Start date
londonrascal
New member
Day Three:
Up early I was before 07:00 and got my things together to go off for a shower but upon leaving the boat met the owner of the Fairline moored on the next pontoon down who was fuming. You see he had come down the evening before to find we had moved alongside his boat - I noticed lights on when we came back from our meal but he had not come to comment on things then and was in no mood for negotiations with me now. Eventually I calmed him down, introduced myself as the new owner and apologised and we ended up shaking hands and agreeing the boat would be moved later.
Crew duly up and off to get breakfast, Fairline owner duly present to remind me and crew that we will be moving the boat. Dan arrives later from his digs and finds said owner now giving him the once over and eyeing up his diving gear - suffice to say we return after breakfast and move the boat over and now need to find another location to launch the Willaims RIB and see if it runs (which was why we had moved Independence over the night before) to allow us space on our port side to use the crane and launch the RIB.
In hindsight I think we had all taken our friendly 'Norfolk attitudes' down with us and had not taken onboard the reaction that some may have just at the mere fact a boat has been moved by hand alongside another - with masses of fenders - but then thinking about it, the same applies at Horning Staithe on the Norfolk Broads where double mooring is permitted - some are happy to have someone alongside, some would never allow it alongside their boat. Work was now going on once again all over, electrical, woodworking, cleaning you name it all rushing to try and get things sorted ready for a late morning lock through and into our trials. We decided not to fuel prior to departure or try to launch the RIB but just get out as soon as we could.
With as much gear stowed as we could we were 'stowed for sea' (well, sort of) and crew were briefed on use of life jackets, location of exits, fire extinguishers and so on and then given their instructions on what to do and where to go - this left Charlie and Myself up on the fly bridge. With lines let go we were off. Now something new and annoying popped up - when out of gear and you move the throttles they instantly move the actuators on the control box in engine room and thus the physical throttles on engines, but now in gear there is a pause between anything you do and it happening - over a second! This means you have to be hyper aware of what your input will do, and when to cease doing it - e.g. on port engine off port engine - the delay between you moving the arm and engine reacting and then returning arm to neutral and engine spinning down all add up. (I have since found the 258 page manual and ways you can program this delay out of the system)
Radio to Sutton Lock and permission to enter is granted, massive sea lock making Mutford Lock (Oulton Broad Norfolk Broads) seem like a Canal lock in compassion. Independence's engine tone reverberating off the lock walls and using her bow and stern hydraulic thrusters we held station so we did not have the added effort of her over sizes, heavy wet lines to haul over the cleats on the floating pontoons int he lock. The lock gates slowly open - you don't get a light or a radio message to proceed out, it is just kinda obvious "gates be open and away you go".
Simon a local, ex-navy and friend of Charlie's was on board and his local knowledge was great. Keeping us to starboard we picked up the channel and he was soon giving advice of what channel follow, when to turn and so on - straight out the lock and we were into Plymouth Sound - this is sheltered by the land but despite this the wind was gusting, and whipping up the waves to a 6 to 12 foot swell. Independence was handling this as if was nothing, a sure footed hull with no slamming - up the engine RPM her bow now going down ever deeper into the swell's troughs, but despite some confusion with the smaller waves which seemed to be coming to our starboard beam it was a safe and predictable motion and everyone was wearing a large smile. Her engines now under load and movement were performing perfectly, all within ranges so we headed through towards the shore and into ahead sea and head wind and wound the engines up more and more right up to and holding her 3,000RPM max - apart from the fact at this speed she would be drinking something like 100L per hour there was no sudden increase in her coolant temperature, oil pressures stayed stable, gearboxes were looking fine (and cool) but other areas were showing not to be working - the upper helm repeater for the fire alarm system was showing alarm (there as no fire and the low helm station was fine) the speed log was not working, the auto-helm upper helm station repeater was working but the LCD display was dead. The chart plotter though was working fine and showing our position and speed over ground with GPS and all the other gauges for the engines on the upper helm were also working.
After this we decided to head out into the rough stuff - past the breakwater things got rougher as you would expect - again a confused sea where the majority of the swell was bow on, but the wind was coming from the west so the waves were being pushed towards us that way too - this meant a rolling and pitching motion that were out of sync - up, then port, down then starboard in a sort of twist - but once again no slamming. By now we were able to get her exhausts clear of the water and bury another so you would have this growl from one as the other was muted before the roll brought the other out and vice versa - again all was going well and we pushed on.
Now sometime after this the rolling motion got far more acute and we saw how our preparation for sea was not as good as should have been (but we just did not have the time) and I stopped filming and gave Dan a hand on the sundeck and down below. I then came back up to the Sundeck and left Dan in the Saloon - we were now in 18-20 foot swells clear of the headland and with winds gusting over 35Kts. As I went to get up the ladder to the fly bridge, Charlie and Simon were about to make a turn back toward the Harbour. Simon put on masses of port wheel, Charlie then was working throttles -wooooo she went right over to starboard at a rate of list easily over 30 Degrees then a short pause, back up and over to port. You can imagine poor Dan had no idea what hit him, he went over the coffee tale backwards and ended up on his back on the settee with said table on him - toaster and kettle left the galley, bounced off the cupboards and found themselves in my aft cabin mean time that big sea was now astern of us.
In these cases you need have two people on the helm - one to keep the boat on as straight course as possible especially as you come down the face of a wave to the bottom, the other to back off throttles to arrest the speed - and once the bow raises out of the trough at the bottom to put a bunch of power on to get back up the next wave - all the time ensuring that the sea behind is being kept ahead of as to no broach the boat (which is where the boat may twist to port or starboard at the bottom of a wave, the large following wave then picks up the stern and 'spins' the boat broadside to and then likely into a capsize.
Well this was all being done and there I was holding on to the ladder unable to go up or now with the motion - once the turn was complete and the boat was back into her stride we then went for a following sea (and wind) power test - open up the throttles to max RPM and I decided to go live on my Facebook Page and not concentrate so much on the filming with my camera - note too my phone is waterproof but my Blog camera is no and was covered with salt water yet still working. Just as I am live, I get a phone call and at that moment we loose port engine power (only we had not). Charlie dives down "We've lost port gear box oil pressure" he says in passing and I end filming again.
With Charlie in the engine room he is thinking it is a fuel starvation issue - the engine hunting, RPM building only to loose them and return to idle but little did he know (or indeed anyone) at that time that what was actually happening is our fly-by-wire commander unit on the upper helm was doing things all by itself with the port engine. So while Simon and I thought all was fixed as the revs rose, Charlie is thinking "what the hell are they playing at up there". We of course were not touching anything.
It was decided after a few minutes to shut down the port engine. We then had to return - thankfully now in the less violent swell (since we were within the shelter of the headland) to harbour. Despite all that had happened, nobody panicked, people did not all rush up with ideas and shout to 'try this' or 'why not that' it was all calm and logical but the issue was how the hell would we fair getting this (new to us) boat we had such little time knowing how she may handle and with the delay as it was with the fly-by-wire- throttles back into the lock, out of it, spun round and berthed AND not go and ding the Fairline with her unhappy owner!
Charlie was on throttles and I on thrusters and we got her back, into the lock without anyone being the wiser that we had an issue. Into the Marina we went, turned her around and backed into her berth and unhappy Farline owner was now less unhappy and gave us a hand with our lines - little did he know we were doing it all on one engine, and when informed said what a good job we had done. It was odd as a couple of other boat owners also popped up and after we were alongside I had a chat with them and their ideas about what could be at fault were shared. It seemed they were a little taken aback that we had gone out, lost an engine come back and were so calm about it all.
Needless to say later that day and since we have not been able to replicate the issue. I have made calls to boatyards in the area who all have said 'cannot help much' but one they all said it unlikely to be software (its not a complex system it runs on serial connections) but the actuators not being used for a long period now being called upon at the limit of their travel and in rough seas coupled with the fact no manual was left on the boat from the previous owner and I only had the engineer telling me what to do at purchase to go on. You live and learn.
Up early I was before 07:00 and got my things together to go off for a shower but upon leaving the boat met the owner of the Fairline moored on the next pontoon down who was fuming. You see he had come down the evening before to find we had moved alongside his boat - I noticed lights on when we came back from our meal but he had not come to comment on things then and was in no mood for negotiations with me now. Eventually I calmed him down, introduced myself as the new owner and apologised and we ended up shaking hands and agreeing the boat would be moved later.
Crew duly up and off to get breakfast, Fairline owner duly present to remind me and crew that we will be moving the boat. Dan arrives later from his digs and finds said owner now giving him the once over and eyeing up his diving gear - suffice to say we return after breakfast and move the boat over and now need to find another location to launch the Willaims RIB and see if it runs (which was why we had moved Independence over the night before) to allow us space on our port side to use the crane and launch the RIB.
In hindsight I think we had all taken our friendly 'Norfolk attitudes' down with us and had not taken onboard the reaction that some may have just at the mere fact a boat has been moved by hand alongside another - with masses of fenders - but then thinking about it, the same applies at Horning Staithe on the Norfolk Broads where double mooring is permitted - some are happy to have someone alongside, some would never allow it alongside their boat. Work was now going on once again all over, electrical, woodworking, cleaning you name it all rushing to try and get things sorted ready for a late morning lock through and into our trials. We decided not to fuel prior to departure or try to launch the RIB but just get out as soon as we could.
With as much gear stowed as we could we were 'stowed for sea' (well, sort of) and crew were briefed on use of life jackets, location of exits, fire extinguishers and so on and then given their instructions on what to do and where to go - this left Charlie and Myself up on the fly bridge. With lines let go we were off. Now something new and annoying popped up - when out of gear and you move the throttles they instantly move the actuators on the control box in engine room and thus the physical throttles on engines, but now in gear there is a pause between anything you do and it happening - over a second! This means you have to be hyper aware of what your input will do, and when to cease doing it - e.g. on port engine off port engine - the delay between you moving the arm and engine reacting and then returning arm to neutral and engine spinning down all add up. (I have since found the 258 page manual and ways you can program this delay out of the system)
Radio to Sutton Lock and permission to enter is granted, massive sea lock making Mutford Lock (Oulton Broad Norfolk Broads) seem like a Canal lock in compassion. Independence's engine tone reverberating off the lock walls and using her bow and stern hydraulic thrusters we held station so we did not have the added effort of her over sizes, heavy wet lines to haul over the cleats on the floating pontoons int he lock. The lock gates slowly open - you don't get a light or a radio message to proceed out, it is just kinda obvious "gates be open and away you go".
Simon a local, ex-navy and friend of Charlie's was on board and his local knowledge was great. Keeping us to starboard we picked up the channel and he was soon giving advice of what channel follow, when to turn and so on - straight out the lock and we were into Plymouth Sound - this is sheltered by the land but despite this the wind was gusting, and whipping up the waves to a 6 to 12 foot swell. Independence was handling this as if was nothing, a sure footed hull with no slamming - up the engine RPM her bow now going down ever deeper into the swell's troughs, but despite some confusion with the smaller waves which seemed to be coming to our starboard beam it was a safe and predictable motion and everyone was wearing a large smile. Her engines now under load and movement were performing perfectly, all within ranges so we headed through towards the shore and into ahead sea and head wind and wound the engines up more and more right up to and holding her 3,000RPM max - apart from the fact at this speed she would be drinking something like 100L per hour there was no sudden increase in her coolant temperature, oil pressures stayed stable, gearboxes were looking fine (and cool) but other areas were showing not to be working - the upper helm repeater for the fire alarm system was showing alarm (there as no fire and the low helm station was fine) the speed log was not working, the auto-helm upper helm station repeater was working but the LCD display was dead. The chart plotter though was working fine and showing our position and speed over ground with GPS and all the other gauges for the engines on the upper helm were also working.
After this we decided to head out into the rough stuff - past the breakwater things got rougher as you would expect - again a confused sea where the majority of the swell was bow on, but the wind was coming from the west so the waves were being pushed towards us that way too - this meant a rolling and pitching motion that were out of sync - up, then port, down then starboard in a sort of twist - but once again no slamming. By now we were able to get her exhausts clear of the water and bury another so you would have this growl from one as the other was muted before the roll brought the other out and vice versa - again all was going well and we pushed on.
Now sometime after this the rolling motion got far more acute and we saw how our preparation for sea was not as good as should have been (but we just did not have the time) and I stopped filming and gave Dan a hand on the sundeck and down below. I then came back up to the Sundeck and left Dan in the Saloon - we were now in 18-20 foot swells clear of the headland and with winds gusting over 35Kts. As I went to get up the ladder to the fly bridge, Charlie and Simon were about to make a turn back toward the Harbour. Simon put on masses of port wheel, Charlie then was working throttles -wooooo she went right over to starboard at a rate of list easily over 30 Degrees then a short pause, back up and over to port. You can imagine poor Dan had no idea what hit him, he went over the coffee tale backwards and ended up on his back on the settee with said table on him - toaster and kettle left the galley, bounced off the cupboards and found themselves in my aft cabin mean time that big sea was now astern of us.
In these cases you need have two people on the helm - one to keep the boat on as straight course as possible especially as you come down the face of a wave to the bottom, the other to back off throttles to arrest the speed - and once the bow raises out of the trough at the bottom to put a bunch of power on to get back up the next wave - all the time ensuring that the sea behind is being kept ahead of as to no broach the boat (which is where the boat may twist to port or starboard at the bottom of a wave, the large following wave then picks up the stern and 'spins' the boat broadside to and then likely into a capsize.
Well this was all being done and there I was holding on to the ladder unable to go up or now with the motion - once the turn was complete and the boat was back into her stride we then went for a following sea (and wind) power test - open up the throttles to max RPM and I decided to go live on my Facebook Page and not concentrate so much on the filming with my camera - note too my phone is waterproof but my Blog camera is no and was covered with salt water yet still working. Just as I am live, I get a phone call and at that moment we loose port engine power (only we had not). Charlie dives down "We've lost port gear box oil pressure" he says in passing and I end filming again.
With Charlie in the engine room he is thinking it is a fuel starvation issue - the engine hunting, RPM building only to loose them and return to idle but little did he know (or indeed anyone) at that time that what was actually happening is our fly-by-wire commander unit on the upper helm was doing things all by itself with the port engine. So while Simon and I thought all was fixed as the revs rose, Charlie is thinking "what the hell are they playing at up there". We of course were not touching anything.
It was decided after a few minutes to shut down the port engine. We then had to return - thankfully now in the less violent swell (since we were within the shelter of the headland) to harbour. Despite all that had happened, nobody panicked, people did not all rush up with ideas and shout to 'try this' or 'why not that' it was all calm and logical but the issue was how the hell would we fair getting this (new to us) boat we had such little time knowing how she may handle and with the delay as it was with the fly-by-wire- throttles back into the lock, out of it, spun round and berthed AND not go and ding the Fairline with her unhappy owner!
Charlie was on throttles and I on thrusters and we got her back, into the lock without anyone being the wiser that we had an issue. Into the Marina we went, turned her around and backed into her berth and unhappy Farline owner was now less unhappy and gave us a hand with our lines - little did he know we were doing it all on one engine, and when informed said what a good job we had done. It was odd as a couple of other boat owners also popped up and after we were alongside I had a chat with them and their ideas about what could be at fault were shared. It seemed they were a little taken aback that we had gone out, lost an engine come back and were so calm about it all.
Needless to say later that day and since we have not been able to replicate the issue. I have made calls to boatyards in the area who all have said 'cannot help much' but one they all said it unlikely to be software (its not a complex system it runs on serial connections) but the actuators not being used for a long period now being called upon at the limit of their travel and in rough seas coupled with the fact no manual was left on the boat from the previous owner and I only had the engineer telling me what to do at purchase to go on. You live and learn.
petem
Well-known member
I'm not convinced you made some great decisions there but I'm glad you got back in one piece! Hopefully the next voyage will be less eventful.
Nigelpickin
Active member
LR I’m confused, why was the FL owner Pi**ed with you, you weren’t rafted to him were you?
A bit bonkers going out in that beyond the breakwater but you lived and hopefully learned.... going out in f6-7 beyond the Sound is not a fantastic idea, I think that I made the point many thousands of words back that the boat rolling will not, most likely, directly result in serious loss but that it does cause secondary problems, mostly relating to stowage, stress on systems, difficult conditions for on the fly fixes and high likelihood of poor decision making.
There’s plenty of room to play inside the breakwater and you can always head right, behind Drakes Island and up river if need be.
Haven’t had time to watch the videos yet, I might wait for the Directors cut box set
A bit bonkers going out in that beyond the breakwater but you lived and hopefully learned.... going out in f6-7 beyond the Sound is not a fantastic idea, I think that I made the point many thousands of words back that the boat rolling will not, most likely, directly result in serious loss but that it does cause secondary problems, mostly relating to stowage, stress on systems, difficult conditions for on the fly fixes and high likelihood of poor decision making.
There’s plenty of room to play inside the breakwater and you can always head right, behind Drakes Island and up river if need be.
Haven’t had time to watch the videos yet, I might wait for the Directors cut box set
Last edited:
petem
Well-known member
I was confused too about the Fairline owner being pissed off. It wasn't clear but I assumed the same as you that they were rafted alongside on the berth. I'd be pissed off too if someone did that without asking, particularly if there was any wind.
Nigelpickin
Active member
Just wanted to check rather than jump to conclusions...but rafting in Sutton would be a strange thing to do...
MrB
Well-known member
I skim watched the video, most of it should have been left on the editing floor because the wind noise and erratic camera work made it unwatchable, sorry just a little constructive criticism. It appeared to me the op rafted his boat to the Fairline leaving a gap to the pontoon to his port side so he could launch the tender?
londonrascal
New member
A bit bonkers going out in that beyond the breakwater but you lived and hopefully learned.... going out in f6-7 beyond the Sound is not a fantastic idea, I think that I made the point many thousands of words back that the boat rolling will not, most likely, directly result in serious loss but that it does cause secondary problems, mostly relating to stowage, stress on systems, difficult conditions for on the fly fixes and high likelihood of poor decision making.
There’s plenty of room to play inside the breakwater and you can always head right, behind Drakes Island and up river if need be.
We all have our thoughts on this one - I was awaiting comments to come in about this here. Prior to departure we went through the weather conditions, knew what was out there and knew it was worsening forecast. I am sorry that so little this was filmed, but suffice to say a lot of time was had in the relative calm within the breakwater area back and forth and all was fine this was the build up period, gaining confidence and doing a bit more here and there and to most that would have been just fine, but this goes back to my per-purchase comments on 'Sea Trials'.
Too much of the time it is a run to see how things perform - do the engines reach full RPM? Are the oil pressures within ranges? Are there any overheating issues? How does she turn and deal with rapid steering inputs? What systems are installed and do they all work as should? and so on and so forth. Whenever I have seen such conducted very little stress is put on the boat, after all it is owned by someone else and usually they do not want too much being done - what if someone pushed her to her limits (or beyond) and walked away from the purchase?
I decided not to have any sea trial and was only after purchase I even started the engines. Therefore this sea trial needed to be hard on her and push her and hopefully if something was going to break to push it to then so we wanted as heavy sea state as we could to know what she did and how she reacted especially as my Trader has all that added weight up top with the up-rated Crane, heavy Williams RIB and a full compliment on the fly bridge.
All that actually happened down below was some spilt Rum, and a can of John Smiths exploding - no actual breakages as it later turned out but if it had so what one could call that ‘collateral damage’. What the point to me was is to go close to the line as one can yet remain safe and see what she did and how she perfomed - this means if I am ever between locations and things change before one can reach a safe port for example I know what she will do, I know how she is going to handle those types of swells and not be in a situation where things are going on and I am having the added worry of ‘is the boat going to handle this’.
It also took me back to the talk about stabilizers being needed on these boats and me asking 'is it for comfort or safety.' I can now tell they are just fine without. Yes she rolls, and mine especially so, but it is to my mind what boats tend to do but what was so nice was the predicable nature of her movement, soft entry, slow rolls, and yet when asked to turn suddenly really ‘gripped’ and changed course rapidly. The engines too have all their torque coming in midrange in the rev band so you can use that to your advantage and not having the engines running at silly high RPMs to get the most of the grunt out of them.
We took no water over the deck, we had no leaks anywhere and the only issue that has come to light is with the ZF Commander for the port engine going 'wonky' on us on the upper helm and putting inputs in that we were not wanting. Now having read up on the 258 page manual – mad - I am going to return the system to default and re-program it since I have been unable to replicate what happened again despite having the commander unit off, it is corrosion free and water tight. What surprised me is system is so basic, I was expecting it to be high end gear with a fast modern network but nope it is just slow baud serial connection you can program with dip switches basically.
In conclusion, I don’t think it was bonkers because I now know the boat far better, and am far more confident in her abilities – at no point did I (or anyone else for that matter onboard) during or after say they felt unsafe and with the experience of a local helmsman who knew the local conditions, currents depths etc helped a great deal on the day.
The ‘grumpy Fairline owner’
So I should explain that where Independence is berthed is in a mooring that is ‘double sized’ there are a few of these dotted about the Marina, so you have a bunch of room between boats, making mooring easier. We decided that if we moved the boat over we could have enough room on our port side to launch the RIB to see if the Crane worked and indeed the RIB. Having done just this light faded and we could not carry out the plan as intended. The guy who owned the boat then came down with some guests that evening (nothing was said to us) the following morning before 07:00 it most certainly was said to me in a very aggressive manner. All was explained, dealt with, forgiven, moved on and sorted but as with everything I share it in video and in write-ups so now everyone can debate that as they are.
I skim watched the video, most of it should have been left on the editing floor because the wind noise and erratic camera work made it unwatchable, sorry just a little constructive criticism.
What you have to understand is these are Blogs. There meant to be ‘as it happens’ and share as much as I can, in as ‘live to tape’ format as possible – so minimal edited goes on. There not meant to be polished, not meant to be correct at all times it is just a case of grab the camera hit record and film then put it down again.
However, some have asked for certain areas to be addressed so far as sound and camera and today this lot arrived:
Which I think might go some way to address things especially when doing more ‘set piece’ shorts. I do not want to go too far into a polished feel mind you, because that would just turn the Blog into anything but. The wind noise, the motion etc I felt anyway brought you there as it was happening – because if you had a smooth feel and muffled audio it would not be as raw and real but that is just my opinion it is also why the channel is and always will b self supported – no Patreon hand outs, advert sharing nonsense here because the moment you do that you raise expectations.
There’s plenty of room to play inside the breakwater and you can always head right, behind Drakes Island and up river if need be.
We all have our thoughts on this one - I was awaiting comments to come in about this here. Prior to departure we went through the weather conditions, knew what was out there and knew it was worsening forecast. I am sorry that so little this was filmed, but suffice to say a lot of time was had in the relative calm within the breakwater area back and forth and all was fine this was the build up period, gaining confidence and doing a bit more here and there and to most that would have been just fine, but this goes back to my per-purchase comments on 'Sea Trials'.
Too much of the time it is a run to see how things perform - do the engines reach full RPM? Are the oil pressures within ranges? Are there any overheating issues? How does she turn and deal with rapid steering inputs? What systems are installed and do they all work as should? and so on and so forth. Whenever I have seen such conducted very little stress is put on the boat, after all it is owned by someone else and usually they do not want too much being done - what if someone pushed her to her limits (or beyond) and walked away from the purchase?
I decided not to have any sea trial and was only after purchase I even started the engines. Therefore this sea trial needed to be hard on her and push her and hopefully if something was going to break to push it to then so we wanted as heavy sea state as we could to know what she did and how she reacted especially as my Trader has all that added weight up top with the up-rated Crane, heavy Williams RIB and a full compliment on the fly bridge.
All that actually happened down below was some spilt Rum, and a can of John Smiths exploding - no actual breakages as it later turned out but if it had so what one could call that ‘collateral damage’. What the point to me was is to go close to the line as one can yet remain safe and see what she did and how she perfomed - this means if I am ever between locations and things change before one can reach a safe port for example I know what she will do, I know how she is going to handle those types of swells and not be in a situation where things are going on and I am having the added worry of ‘is the boat going to handle this’.
It also took me back to the talk about stabilizers being needed on these boats and me asking 'is it for comfort or safety.' I can now tell they are just fine without. Yes she rolls, and mine especially so, but it is to my mind what boats tend to do but what was so nice was the predicable nature of her movement, soft entry, slow rolls, and yet when asked to turn suddenly really ‘gripped’ and changed course rapidly. The engines too have all their torque coming in midrange in the rev band so you can use that to your advantage and not having the engines running at silly high RPMs to get the most of the grunt out of them.
We took no water over the deck, we had no leaks anywhere and the only issue that has come to light is with the ZF Commander for the port engine going 'wonky' on us on the upper helm and putting inputs in that we were not wanting. Now having read up on the 258 page manual – mad - I am going to return the system to default and re-program it since I have been unable to replicate what happened again despite having the commander unit off, it is corrosion free and water tight. What surprised me is system is so basic, I was expecting it to be high end gear with a fast modern network but nope it is just slow baud serial connection you can program with dip switches basically.
In conclusion, I don’t think it was bonkers because I now know the boat far better, and am far more confident in her abilities – at no point did I (or anyone else for that matter onboard) during or after say they felt unsafe and with the experience of a local helmsman who knew the local conditions, currents depths etc helped a great deal on the day.
The ‘grumpy Fairline owner’
So I should explain that where Independence is berthed is in a mooring that is ‘double sized’ there are a few of these dotted about the Marina, so you have a bunch of room between boats, making mooring easier. We decided that if we moved the boat over we could have enough room on our port side to launch the RIB to see if the Crane worked and indeed the RIB. Having done just this light faded and we could not carry out the plan as intended. The guy who owned the boat then came down with some guests that evening (nothing was said to us) the following morning before 07:00 it most certainly was said to me in a very aggressive manner. All was explained, dealt with, forgiven, moved on and sorted but as with everything I share it in video and in write-ups so now everyone can debate that as they are.
I skim watched the video, most of it should have been left on the editing floor because the wind noise and erratic camera work made it unwatchable, sorry just a little constructive criticism.
What you have to understand is these are Blogs. There meant to be ‘as it happens’ and share as much as I can, in as ‘live to tape’ format as possible – so minimal edited goes on. There not meant to be polished, not meant to be correct at all times it is just a case of grab the camera hit record and film then put it down again.
However, some have asked for certain areas to be addressed so far as sound and camera and today this lot arrived:
Which I think might go some way to address things especially when doing more ‘set piece’ shorts. I do not want to go too far into a polished feel mind you, because that would just turn the Blog into anything but. The wind noise, the motion etc I felt anyway brought you there as it was happening – because if you had a smooth feel and muffled audio it would not be as raw and real but that is just my opinion it is also why the channel is and always will b self supported – no Patreon hand outs, advert sharing nonsense here because the moment you do that you raise expectations.
wellf100
Member
I'm quite enjoying these longer videos. Makes a change to have more detail and explanation than you see on many 10min vids on youtube. This is more like a TV series! Watchers can always choose to fast forward if they want. As it happens, you're quite eloquent and explain things well so i find it quite easy watching.
londonrascal
New member
Thanks Wellf. The Captain’s Blog began in 2011 to document my holidays spent on the Norfolk Broads.
Indeed when it first began it had no name, I had no editing program and it was done at the end of the day and uploaded from the boat that evening. I also long before live streaming on Facebook. You Tube etc produced several live streams on Ustream.tv – they still exist including where we have taken Broad Ambition to Southwold and back: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/norfolk-broads-live
However, I rather like this one leaving Southwold: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/32480139
Over the years, this format caught on so far as boating videos on You Tube go now there are many who posts their adventures – be it here in the UK or further afield – how many of those existed in 2011? How many have taken the ‘talking to camera Vlog’ on and now can make a living from sharing these videos – plenty – but for me it still has the roots firmly as being an average guy documenting his travels, mistakes and all so it might not be everyone’s cup of tea, but for those who seem to enjoy watching I enjoy creating.
Indeed when it first began it had no name, I had no editing program and it was done at the end of the day and uploaded from the boat that evening. I also long before live streaming on Facebook. You Tube etc produced several live streams on Ustream.tv – they still exist including where we have taken Broad Ambition to Southwold and back: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/norfolk-broads-live
However, I rather like this one leaving Southwold: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/32480139
Over the years, this format caught on so far as boating videos on You Tube go now there are many who posts their adventures – be it here in the UK or further afield – how many of those existed in 2011? How many have taken the ‘talking to camera Vlog’ on and now can make a living from sharing these videos – plenty – but for me it still has the roots firmly as being an average guy documenting his travels, mistakes and all so it might not be everyone’s cup of tea, but for those who seem to enjoy watching I enjoy creating.
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Nigelpickin
Active member
Well it take all sorts, and each to their own but imvho a sea trial in Gale Force conditions is not such a great idea. I mean if the major problems that you encountered were poor seamanship and a problem with the Port transmission that you are unable to reproduce, I’d say the the risk to return ratio was poor.
Not wanting to be negative or preachy, however the ‘without anyone being the wiser that we had an issue’ is probably the most telling part of the story; if you had an any issue that might have resulted in reduced close quarters maneuverability then it would have been prudent to let SH lock/marina know on channel 12. Nothing bad happened this time and that’s great but next time it would be good use the radio to communicate to those around you, try to keep you coms brief and to the point tho’ lol.
It’s really good to hear that you are not uncomfortable with the rolling - 30 degrees is huge and no wonder things that were not secure went flying! Out of interest, did you have full fuel and water and do you think it would make a difference to the roll?
I’d also say that it would be politer to refer to the ‘understandably grumpy Fairline owner’ although he is a Fairline owner and they can be a bit funny
Not wanting to be negative or preachy, however the ‘without anyone being the wiser that we had an issue’ is probably the most telling part of the story; if you had an any issue that might have resulted in reduced close quarters maneuverability then it would have been prudent to let SH lock/marina know on channel 12. Nothing bad happened this time and that’s great but next time it would be good use the radio to communicate to those around you, try to keep you coms brief and to the point tho’
lol.It’s really good to hear that you are not uncomfortable with the rolling - 30 degrees is huge and no wonder things that were not secure went flying! Out of interest, did you have full fuel and water and do you think it would make a difference to the roll?
I’d also say that it would be politer to refer to the ‘understandably grumpy Fairline owner’ although he is a Fairline owner and they can be a bit funny
East Cardinal
Member
LR, glad you achieved a successful sea trial.
The passage outside the breakwater probably taught you more about the boat than in the relative calm inside.
With all your preps and safety gear, I don’t see any problem in testing in the more demanding conditions south of the B/W.
Proper rope splicing as well!
Good luck with your passage “East”
Are you following the TSS. or inshore?
EC
The passage outside the breakwater probably taught you more about the boat than in the relative calm inside.
With all your preps and safety gear, I don’t see any problem in testing in the more demanding conditions south of the B/W.
Proper rope splicing as well!
Good luck with your passage “East”
Are you following the TSS. or inshore?
EC
petem
Well-known member
Well it take all sorts, and each to their own but imvho a sea trial in Gale Force conditions is not such a great idea. I mean if the major problems that you encountered were poor seamanship and a problem with the Port transmission that you are unable to reproduce, I’d say the the risk to return ratio was poor.
Not wanting to be negative or preachy, however the ‘without anyone being the wiser that we had an issue’ is probably the most telling part of the story; if you had an any issue that might have resulted in reduced close quarters maneuverability then it would have been prudent to let SH lock/marina know on channel 12. Nothing bad happened this time and that’s great but next time it would be good use the radio to communicate to those around you, try to keep you coms brief and to the point tho’
It’s really good to hear that you are not uncomfortable with the rolling - 30 degrees is huge and no wonder things that were not secure went flying! Out of interest, did you have full fuel and water and do you think it would make a difference to the roll?
I’d also say that it would be politer to refer to the ‘understandably grumpy Fairline owner’ although he is a Fairline owner and they can be a bit funny
We tend to be proud of our boats and are rather peeved when some oik rafts alongside (increasing the stress on our cleats) without asking!
londonrascal
New member
Well it take all sorts, and each to their own but imvho a sea trial in Gale Force conditions is not such a great idea. I mean if the major problems that you encountered were poor seamanship and a problem with the Port transmission that you are unable to reproduce, I’d say the the risk to return ratio was poor.
We had no issue with the port transmission – we did have issue with the upper helm ‘fly by wire’ ZF Micro Commander no longer being ‘in control’ of the port engine.
That is to say inputs to the throttle arm on the upper helm station (for the port engine) were ignored by the ‘control box’ in the engine room. As a result, the port engine returned to idle, and then increased RPM for a short while and then back to idle and then back to an increase – all without any input from the actual station on the upper helm. This is why the decision was taken to shut down the port engine and return to harbour on our starboard engine.
I have tried to replicate this issue three times and have not been able. I have talked to local boatyards who have wanted nothing to do with it. After consulting with the manual, I am going to do a full system restore and re-program and see how we get on here. Long term I want to rip the whole thing out and get some good old fashion Morse controls and cables direct between helm and engine and loose the electronic bit between.
Not wanting to be negative or preachy, however the ‘without anyone being the wiser that we had an issue’ is probably the most telling part of the story; if you had an any issue that might have resulted in reduced close quarters maneuverability then it would have been prudent to let SH lock/marina know on channel 12.
Nothing bad happened this time and that’s great but next time it would be good use the radio to communicate to those around you, try to keep you coms brief and to the point tho'.
Point taken, but with one engine, two rudders and two 20HP thrusters at our disposal I am not sure we were suffering from ‘reduced maneuverabilty’ which is why I and nobody else felt the need to share this with the Lock as we entered and departed. It would have been different if we had to shut down our starboard engine as then we would loose hydraulics for the thrusters.
Despite the conditions and returning ‘home’ on one engine the mood on the boat was not of worry or panic but ‘oh bugger’ and me thinking ‘that’s more invoices to come’
It’s really good to hear that you are not uncomfortable with the rolling - 30 degrees is huge and no wonder things that were not secure went flying! Out of interest, did you have full fuel and water and do you think it would make a difference to the roll?
We had a full water tank but not full fuel tanks – I mean, they were as good as makes no difference full – when we ‘topped off’ the tanks the following day it was 360L we had used in our trials.
To be honest it does not take an expert to work out the fuel and water on the Trader does a lot to ballast her – and in my case I am approaching a tonne of weight on the upper sundeck some 15 odd foot up. It sure does not help the stability and I suspect you could get into a heap of trouble if you had low levels in the tanks, but I would not expect to ever let them get low since even on our passage to Norfolk we will re-fill at each stop over.
I’d also say that it would be politer to refer to the ‘understandably grumpy Fairline owner’ although he is a Fairline owner and they can be a bit funny
I (crew included) have learnt a lesson there, we are used to boating in Norfolk where doing that is an everyday sort of thing and people are more accommodating. They pack them in far more like sardines on berths there so in our case in Stalham we are fender to fender to our two neighbors, as they are to theirs and so on.
We had no issue with the port transmission – we did have issue with the upper helm ‘fly by wire’ ZF Micro Commander no longer being ‘in control’ of the port engine.
That is to say inputs to the throttle arm on the upper helm station (for the port engine) were ignored by the ‘control box’ in the engine room. As a result, the port engine returned to idle, and then increased RPM for a short while and then back to idle and then back to an increase – all without any input from the actual station on the upper helm. This is why the decision was taken to shut down the port engine and return to harbour on our starboard engine.
I have tried to replicate this issue three times and have not been able. I have talked to local boatyards who have wanted nothing to do with it. After consulting with the manual, I am going to do a full system restore and re-program and see how we get on here. Long term I want to rip the whole thing out and get some good old fashion Morse controls and cables direct between helm and engine and loose the electronic bit between.
Not wanting to be negative or preachy, however the ‘without anyone being the wiser that we had an issue’ is probably the most telling part of the story; if you had an any issue that might have resulted in reduced close quarters maneuverability then it would have been prudent to let SH lock/marina know on channel 12.
Nothing bad happened this time and that’s great but next time it would be good use the radio to communicate to those around you, try to keep you coms brief and to the point tho'.
Point taken, but with one engine, two rudders and two 20HP thrusters at our disposal I am not sure we were suffering from ‘reduced maneuverabilty’ which is why I and nobody else felt the need to share this with the Lock as we entered and departed. It would have been different if we had to shut down our starboard engine as then we would loose hydraulics for the thrusters.
Despite the conditions and returning ‘home’ on one engine the mood on the boat was not of worry or panic but ‘oh bugger’ and me thinking ‘that’s more invoices to come’
It’s really good to hear that you are not uncomfortable with the rolling - 30 degrees is huge and no wonder things that were not secure went flying! Out of interest, did you have full fuel and water and do you think it would make a difference to the roll?
We had a full water tank but not full fuel tanks – I mean, they were as good as makes no difference full – when we ‘topped off’ the tanks the following day it was 360L we had used in our trials.
To be honest it does not take an expert to work out the fuel and water on the Trader does a lot to ballast her – and in my case I am approaching a tonne of weight on the upper sundeck some 15 odd foot up. It sure does not help the stability and I suspect you could get into a heap of trouble if you had low levels in the tanks, but I would not expect to ever let them get low since even on our passage to Norfolk we will re-fill at each stop over.
I’d also say that it would be politer to refer to the ‘understandably grumpy Fairline owner’ although he is a Fairline owner and they can be a bit funny
I (crew included) have learnt a lesson there, we are used to boating in Norfolk where doing that is an everyday sort of thing and people are more accommodating. They pack them in far more like sardines on berths there so in our case in Stalham we are fender to fender to our two neighbors, as they are to theirs and so on.
Sticky Fingers
Well-known member
Are you saying you rafted a 55 foot 30 ton boat alongside another one without asking its owner, then left?
KevB
Active member
Not sure that I saw anything but a slight swell in the video, certainly nothing like 10'
Piers
Well-known member
You may have read on other posts that I have an inerrant mistrust of electronic engine controls. If they're going to fail, it seems always to happen at the worst time. Play d'eau has Hynautic hyfdralic conmtrols for throttles and gears, and they are brilliant.
http://www.seastarsolutions.com/products/controls-and-cables/hydraulic-controls/
All the best when changing - you won't regret it.
londonrascal
New member
Not sure that I saw anything but a slight swell in the video, certainly nothing like 10'
Yep - and the note in the video and here also explained why you did not see the other increased swell. I knew I needed more evidence, even took a screen grab of the weather on the day from Windy App and Weather File which has a wind meter at Plymouth Yacht Haven.
Goodness the tings one has to think about when you share 90% of stuff that 10% missing evidence eh? Bummer. Now I know what it is like for Anglers who talk of this big catch. In future I will chant the 'Three E's' Evidence. Evidence. Evidence.
Yep - and the note in the video and here also explained why you did not see the other increased swell. I knew I needed more evidence, even took a screen grab of the weather on the day from Windy App and Weather File which has a wind meter at Plymouth Yacht Haven.
Goodness the tings one has to think about when you share 90% of stuff that 10% missing evidence eh? Bummer. Now I know what it is like for Anglers who talk of this big catch. In future I will chant the 'Three E's' Evidence. Evidence. Evidence.
londonrascal
New member
Are you saying you rafted a 55 foot 30 ton boat alongside another one without asking its owner, then left?
Yes I am saying that, indeed here is the evidence:
However, it is closer to 23 tonnes and nobody left it and vanished. The owner was about with guests onboard but said nothing until the following morning which is what I found strange especially to be confronted on the pontoon before 7:00am. But, as I also said all was explained, sorted and forgiven.
Normally nobody bur myself and he would know - but when you're sharing all as I am, all has to be debated - as it is being done here
Yes I am saying that, indeed here is the evidence:
However, it is closer to 23 tonnes and nobody left it and vanished. The owner was about with guests onboard but said nothing until the following morning which is what I found strange especially to be confronted on the pontoon before 7:00am. But, as I also said all was explained, sorted and forgiven.
Normally nobody bur myself and he would know - but when you're sharing all as I am, all has to be debated - as it is being done here
bluetooth
Active member
Couldn't u have just spun the boat round bow in and done your rib launch test that way? Climbing into pontoon wouldn't have been that harder.
