incoming ! Solar Flare

[MASH]

So are we to believe that amongst the thousands of stupendously brilliant scientists who built the GPS constellation there was not one who thought, "Ah! Perhaps we'd better protect these things against solar flares".

Nah, I didn't think so either.

Shan't be watching the (nowhere near extinction) VORs any more than usual.

zzzzzz

 

[stuey_two]

So are we to believe that amongst the thousands of stupendously brilliant scientists who built the GPS constellation there was not one who thought, "Ah! Perhaps we'd better protect these things against solar flares".

Nah, I didn't think so either.

Shan't be watching the (nowhere near extinction) VORs any more than usual.

zzzzzz

Yes, they thought about it - but, as scientists, they knew that complete protection was not feasible - radiation shielding is very heavy!
Satellites are built to withstand a certain dosage of radiation, after which dosage they die!! Temporary rotation of satelllites helps extend life by reducing dose rate during flare activity.

 

[Pye_End]

Arn't solar flares able to knock out sensitive electronics (other than GPS & comms satellites) then?

I am no expert, but a quick trawl through the web suggests that particularly GPS satellite is considerably more susceptible than land based navigational systems.

 

[Pye_End]

So are we to believe that amongst the thousands of stupendously brilliant scientists who built the GPS constellation there was not one who thought, "Ah! Perhaps we'd better protect these things against solar flares".

Nah, I didn't think so either.

Shan't be watching the (nowhere near extinction) VORs any more than usual.

zzzzzz

Bit like town planners eliminating flooding, tsunami, hurricane damage, etc etc.?

 

[alant]

I am no expert, but a quick trawl through the web suggests that particularly GPS satellite is considerably more susceptible than land based navigational systems.

& those in aircraft @ 35000'?

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Ah, RAGNAROK, At Last
I'll get my axe and hammer, 'Trollbane'

I was of course just faffing about. Having now looked up Ragnarok and Trollbane and being firmly of a paranoid, delusional disposition with a penchant for armageddonism, (currently Zombie genre), I am beginning to wonder. Planet X anyone ..........

On a more serious note I fly a lot. With a non GPS accuracy of +/- 2 miles I may have to start drinking more on my flights.

 

[prv]

On a more serious note I fly a lot. With a non GPS accuracy of +/- 2 miles I may have to start drinking more on my flights.

Yebbut, there's no rocks up there to hit

Pete

 

[Tidewaiter2]

Sunspots, Volcanos, tsunami, Humanity seems to have been there before

I was of course just faffing about. Having now looked up Ragnarok and Trollbane and being firmly of a paranoid, delusional disposition with a penchant for armageddonism, (currently Zombie genre), I am beginning to wonder. Planet X anyone ..........

On a more serious note I fly a lot. With a non GPS accuracy of +/- 2 miles I may have to start drinking more on my flights.

Bu@@ger, didn't realise the Warcraft fantasy bunnies had used my real axe's name.
Not sure how you rename a valued steel tool? French have a method for boats. Cut down 7 trees and nick your forearm, as for unused kukri?

In the Poetic Edda poem Völuspá, references to Ragnarök begin from stanza 40 until 58, with the rest of the poem describing the aftermath. In the poem, a völva recites information to Odin. In stanza 41, the völva says:
Old Norse:
Fylliz fiǫrvi
feigra manna,
rýðr ragna siǫt
rauðom dreyra.
Svǫrt verða sólskin
of sumor eptir,
veðr ǫll válynd
Vitoð ér enn, eða hvat?[9]
English:
It sates itself on the life-blood
of fated men,
paints red the powers' homes
with crimson gore.
Black become the sun's beams
in the summers that follow,
weathers all treacherous.
Do you still seek to know? And what?[9]

The völva then describes three roosters crowing: In stanza 42, the jötunn herdsman Eggthér sits on a mound and cheerfully plays his harp while the crimson rooster Fjalar (Old Norse "hider, deceiver"[10]) crows in the forest Gálgviðr. The golden rooster Gullinkambi crows to the Æsir in Valhalla, and the third, unnamed soot-red rooster crows in the halls of the underworld location of Hel in stanza 43.[11]
After these stanzas, the völva further relates that the hound Garmr produces deep howls in front of the cave of Gnipahellir. Garmr's bindings break and he runs free. The völva describes the state of humanity:

Brœðr muno beriaz
ok at bǫnom verða[z]
muno systrungar
sifiom spilla.
Hart er í heimi,
hórdómr mikill
—skeggǫld, skálmǫld
—skildir ro klofnir—
vindǫld, vargǫld—
áðr verǫld steypiz.
Mun engi maðr
ǫðrom þyrma.[12]

Brothers will fight
and kill each other,
sisters' children
will defile kinship.
It is harsh in the world,
whoredom rife
—an axe age, a sword age
—shields are riven—
a wind age, a wolf age—
before the world goes headlong.
No man will have
mercy on another.[12]

In full here;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ragnarök

 

[The Dogs Pollacks Brother]

I had solar flares back in the 70's........certainly never knocked any girls out with them thats for sure

 

[rbcoomer]

& those in aircraft @ 35000'?

Still inside the Earth's magnetic shield, so them too...

 

[emandvee44]

Incoming - solar flares

I am ready

Cheers,

Michael.

 

[SimbaDog]

So am I

 

[Tidewaiter2]

So am I

Doh

 

[Trident 24]

Yebbut, there's no rocks up there to hit

Pete

I think there is one large one

 

[mikeinkwazi]

THIS is IT the BUILD up is began and will ALL BE SORRY and will laugh at YOUR DESPAIR because it was for nothing ur DOUBTS and LIES!!!!!!!! IT is as 4told the DARK of winter solstis WILL BE never ENDING!!!!!!!!

How true!

 

[AntarcticPilot]

So are we to believe that amongst the thousands of stupendously brilliant scientists who built the GPS constellation there was not one who thought, "Ah! Perhaps we'd better protect these things against solar flares".

Nah, I didn't think so either.

Shan't be watching the (nowhere near extinction) VORs any more than usual.

zzzzzz

The flares I am talking about are very rare; we know they occur on a timescale of one in 500 years or so. Of course, they are random (ish), so the fact that there was one 150 years ago doesn't mean there won't be one tomorrow.

We would get less than a day's warning of such a flare.

These are truly MASSIVE events; the one I referenced knocked out 19th century telegraphy, never mind modern communications, power transmission and elecronics! And there is little that could be done to shield spacecraft or electronics short of military grade hardening - the sort that would protect against the EMP of a nuclear weapon. This is impractical for satellites; satellites can withstand ordinary flare events, but the very rare super-flares are simply not common enough to protect against. Even a powerful "normal" flare can seriously disrupt power networks, and has done so in recent history.

One of these flares would probably render unreliable the "fly-by-wire" systems of a modern aircraft. It would probably also disrupt the Internet, as long-distance communications would be rendered unreliable.

Magnetic compasses would also be unreliable during such an event.

GPS should NEVER be used without backup in safety critical systems; it CAN fail. I would expect that in the event of a massive flare - and we would have at least a few hours warning of such an event - all flights would be grounded. But services that can't be discontinued - such as the emergency services - should have a reliable backup to GPS. For the emergency services, this probably means gyro compass and charts. You will note that the military conduct exercises where GPS is not available; we get regular NOTM reported here of areas where GPS will be jammed for military exercises.

 

[Boreades]

I was of course just faffing about. Having now looked up Ragnarok and Trollbane and being firmly of a paranoid, delusional disposition with a penchant for armageddonism, (currently Zombie genre), I am beginning to wonder. Planet X anyone ..........

" It will be preceded by Fimbulvetr, the winter of winters. Three such winters will follow each other with no summers in between."

Hang on, we've had that already haven't we?

 

[CreakyDecks]

The funny thing is that although GPS was put up by the military they don't actually rely on it. Military aircraft use inertial navigation, on the assumption that the first thing to go in a real war would be the GPS satellites.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

The funny thing is that although GPS was put up by the military they don't actually rely on it. Military aircraft use inertial navigation, on the assumption that the first thing to go in a real war would be the GPS satellites.

oh really?

 

[CreakyDecks]

oh really?

Yes really. You couldn't rely on a system that has signals so weak it is blocked by being inside your house could you? Imagine how easy it is to jam electronically. While it is there they use it but they don't need it.