IN in EU or OUT from EU

[maxi77]

If this poll is accurate looks like we are heading ffr a rerun of the Scottish referendum.

 

[Daydream believer]

Remove the incomers and you have a nation of retired people who all own buy to let houses which no longer have any tennants.
.

What planet are you on? Do you really believe that statement?

& for the record = 9M + pensioners, 4M+ buy to let with most buy to let owned by those under pension age & many owning more than one property. Still if pensioners do all own buy to let properties it bodes well for care services who can seize their hard earned possessions & use them to pay for their care. Result for the UK Gov that one

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

This thread has been more than interesting, for me at least. I would like to see a competitive UK, able to convert innovation into manufacturing products including the mass production of new yachts. I believe that we never had it so good; overall, today is better than the 70's, 80's, 90's, millennium, and even last decade (with the exception of the world recession years) and this is because of the EU. The European Union is far from perfect, but, it is our Europe and if we we leave the EU the UK will go back to good old Bad days of the British Leyland years.

 

[halcyon]

This thread has been more than interesting, for me at least. I would like to see a competitive UK, able to convert innovation into manufacturing products including the mass production of new yachts. I believe that we never had it so good; overall, today is better than the 70's, 80's, 90's, millennium, and even last decade (with the exception of the world recession years) and this is because of the EU. The European Union is far from perfect, but, it is our Europe and if we we leave the EU the UK will go back to good old Bad days of the British Leyland years.

But since the 70's we have been going down hill, back in only 2000 we had a positive balance of payments with the EU, since the it has been a steady growing deficit due to falling exports.

At least in BL days we had a manufacturing base, back then BMC / BL were making close to 1,000,000 cares a year.

Brian

Brian

 

[fergie_mac66]

Well it's a waste of time but

When are the people, or the fraud squad going to realise that the EU is a glorified pyramid selling scheme a ponzi scheme.

the EU has to keep increasing the take to keep funding the central elite /bureaucracy at the heart of the pyramid.Its sucking/sucked the life out of the periphery countries,the Pigs(we would be one but for the City) and there's no more left to suck,so they have to increase the take,(increase vat, get rid of zero rated goods etc reduce the rebate) reduce the throw back, (EU project funding cuts)and expand the Base of the pyramid,(bring in new countries, expand East, turkey, Ukraine etc) We fortunately have the city which has protected the UK. If we don't leave on the 23rd, the last chance, the city will really come under pressure to move into central EU(feed the center) it's already started London &German stock exchange merger. The money Is constantly, has been, constantly flowing into the center for 40 years a steady relentlessly and increasing cashflow.

When the money finally does run out,no financial infrastructure left to flow towards the center and no new countries to bring in to the pyramid,zero growth. It will collapse it has to. I may sound like a doom monger but it's quite obvious if you look at the whole picture and exclude,ignore the distractions, trade deals macro economics,slight of hand to confuse the eye the minutiae all over the EU.I love Europe but the EU is tearing into the member countries and when they realise there will be hell to pay. The collapse when it comes it is going to make the ERM, The banking collapse look like a knat bites and yes each , crisis is occurring in a shorter timeline

That's discounting Russia, Putin is not daft, he has advisors, why is he expanding military hardware,even though he has no cash, he has a doomed format financial experiment a politburo on his border.He has experienced it before .

It's the bankers bubble all over again but from a different direction.

When the collapse comes, I hope.we.are.out

 

[maxi77]

But since the 70's we have been going down hill, back in only 2000 we had a positive balance of payments with the EU, since the it has been a steady growing deficit due to falling exports.

At least in BL days we had a manufacturing base, back then BMC / BL were making close to 1,000,000 cares a year.

Brian

Brian

Hmmm BMC/BL etc made a very mixed quality range of cars that were serviced by rubbish dealers. Also we now make some 1500000 cars a year most of which seem to be of decent quality

 

[Jamesuk]

What are the gains of IN and the gains of OUT. So far all I can muster is what each camp would lose, lose and lose some more.

 

[halcyon]

Hmmm BMC/BL etc made a very mixed quality range of cars that were serviced by rubbish dealers. Also we now make some 1500000 cars a year most of which seem to be of decent quality

But you must add Ford, Triumph, Rootes group, Rover, Jag, Vauxhall, MG, so your 1,500,000 is lower than then, add to that the market is now at least 5 times bigger, so today we should be making 10,000,000 a year. As to build quality you need to compare BMC / BL with cars that were current, not 50 years on.

Brian

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Hmmm BMC/BL etc made a very mixed quality range of cars that were serviced by rubbish dealers. Also we now make some 1500000 cars a year most of which seem to be of decent quality

In 2015 the UK produced more car than ever before in the history of car making in this country, thanks to the EU; lets hope that we can do the same with Yachts.

 

[fergie_mac66]

What the EU got too doo with it did they give us some cash back

 

[chanelyacht]

At least in BL days we had a manufacturing base, back then BMC / BL were making close to 1,000,000 cares a year.

Brian

Brian

Which nobody wanted.

Last year we manufactured 1.6 million.

Plus, the turnaround of car manufacturing was led by that well know EU country, Japan, with Honda and Nissan the first investors.

Once again, our best option came from outside the EU.

 

[chanelyacht]

What are the gains of IN and the gains of OUT. So far all I can muster is what each camp would lose, lose and lose some more.

Gains (some) :
£350m a week liability
Territorial waters
Decision making returned to Westminster
Not forced into TTIP
Our decisions not compromised by 27 other states
Control over borders
Removal of regulations for the 95% of businesses that do not export to Europe

for a start

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

What the EU got too doo with it did they give us some cash back

We sell them within EU with good profit margins and in China at competitive prices because of agreements between EU and China. The Yachting Industry should be next.

 

[nortada]

Why Here?

After 133 posts possibly a bit late to ask but why is this thread here? Thought this topic was very much Lounge territory?

I for one am heartily sick of the referendum topic and increasingly seek sanctuary away from it - so where to go?

 

[halcyon]

In 2015 the UK produced more car than ever before in the history of car making in this country, thanks to the EU; lets hope that we can do the same with Yachts.

Are these EU generated ?

UK motor vehicle production volume

1960 ..... 1,811,000
1970 ..... 2.098,000
1996 - 1999 .... 1,900,000 + max 1,976,00.

Think VW in the 60's made 1,500,000 units now around 11,000,000, BMW in the 60's made Isetta's bubble cars now make 1,700,000 high end cars, Audi did not exist then.

Yet we are proud to have at the most optimistic stood still, in fact gone backwards, they were in the main UK owned in 1960.

In or out we have the same problem, lack of ambition.

Brian

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Re: Why Here?

After 133 posts possibly a bit late to ask but why is this thread here? Thought this topic was very much Lounge territory?

I for one am heartily sick of the referendum topic and increasingly seek sanctuary away from it - so where to go?

The aim is to have the views from those who work in the Yachting industry, either in the UK or within the EU. Can we regenerate the UK Yacht manufacturing industry in the same way we did with the car industry.

 

[nortada]

Re: Why Here?

The aim is to have the views from those who work in the Yachting industry, either in the UK or within the EU. Can we regenerate the UK Yacht manufacturing industry in the same way we did with the car industry.

A reasonable aim but your original post doesn't reflect this objective.

Moreover, as often happens, your thread appears to have suffered total thread drift with the current debate anything but.

Out of interest there is a convention not to discus boatie topics in The Lounge, does the converse apply?

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Gains (some) :
£350m a week liability
Territorial waters
Decision making returned to Westminster
Not forced into TTIP
Our decisions not compromised by 27 other states
Control over borders
Removal of regulations for the 95% of businesses that do not export to Europe

for a start

I was in London whole day today discussing issues with the Engineering Council community. Those who were skeptical about the net benefits of being in the EU were the older generation (65 and above), however, those in their 20's, 30's and 40's want to remain in the EU. We need to bring engineering, production and manufacturing back in Europe and subsequently in the UK.

You never know, we may see a new generation of Moody's and Westerly's , competing with the Bavarias and others and selling them throughout the world, using modern progressive technology supported by R&D funded by the EU.

 

[halcyon]

I was in London whole day today discussing issues with the Engineering Council community. Those who were skeptical about the net benefits of being in the EU were the older generation (65 and above), however, those in their 20's, 30's and 40's want to remain in the EU. We need to bring engineering, production and manufacturing back in Europe and subsequently in the UK.

You never know, we may see a new generation of Moody's and Westerly's , competing with the Bavarias and others and selling them throughout the world, using modern progressive technology supported by R&D funded by the EU.

But engineering and production are in the EU, it's just that they are not in this country.

The over 60's have seen it go, and may understand why, We hear motor vehicle is all time high, well just about 1970 level with 2017 prediction, but the market has grown 5 fold or more, so we have a greatly reduced figure based on available market.

We do not invest in manufacturing, this goes back to the 1950's, Germany did, to-day they still do, look at this site http://www.gtai.de/GTAI/Navigation/EN/Invest/Investment-guide/Incentive-programs/R-and-d-incentives/r-and-d-grants-in-germany.html .............. then try to find a UK site offering the same finance to UK manufacturing.

Yacht building, Poland not that many years ago had nothing, now they make 15,000 yachts a year, it's big figures, production is the easy bit, it's the money and will that the problem.

Brian

 

[chanelyacht]

Re: Why Here?

I for one am heartily sick of the referendum topic and increasingly seek sanctuary away from it - so where to go?

You could just not open the thread....