IN in EU or OUT from EU

[Niander]

Why is the EU so obsessed with the free movement of people?
Its obvious there has to be limits or it turns to chaos as here in the UK
More poor countries are set to join soon...something had to be done and it was done by the people
to the shock of the EU...they have to think again at this obsession of "the free movement of people"
Also of course terrorists and criminals just love it!
Thank god we have the English channel!

 

[Tranona]

Yes, MJWF, that's the size of it.

Has anyone given any thought to the EU nationals that have moved to the UK, bought houses, raised families and paid their taxes over the last few decades? Will a renouncing of the principal of free movement mean they will be forcibly repatriated? - going by some of the recent racist attacks, that's exactly what some of the Leavers expect (whether they are from the EU or not). How long a residence will count? Since the formation of the EU? or earlier - how many generations do they want to go back?

What about the British living in Europe? Will they have to go back? Will they be allowed to take an EU nationality? And what about our hols? Visa requirements to sun yourselves on a Costa or charter a boat in the Ionian? Liveaboards on a 90 day visa having to sail out of the EU and back to start another 90 days?

I decided to take Irish nationality when I was shamed by Blair taking us into Iraq, just too suck up to the US. I'm glad I did, because this whole business has reinforced the idea of a substantial and increasing minority of right wing, racist xenophobes that are giving the UK a bad name the world over.

"I just want England to be like it was, for English people" "We won the war and now the Germans want to tell us what to do!" " I want to buy any shape of bananas that I want"

Give me a break

That is a real distortion of what is likely to happen. Everybody has made it clear that nobody will be "repatriated" - there are already international treaties in place covering that. Even further, Boris proposes an amnesty for illegals who have been here for 12 years. Although Farage might support what you suggest, that is not what will happen. The whole issue is about who controls the movement of people, not movement per se.

What is likely to happen is a return to the pre Blair era of the Common Market where movement of labour, not of people was the principle. That is you can come and work in the UK if you have a job and you meet all the other conditions (English speaking, educational level etc) that the UK government sets.

Requirements to go the other way (into EU) will depend on what we negotiate, but unlikely to include any of the restrictions you suggest, given none of those existed pre 1997, nor indeed many pre 1974.

You have to remember that currently 3m EU citizens live in the 60m+ UK and only 1.5m UK citizens live in the rest of the EU with its 460m population. It is this assymmetric movement of people in the last 20 years or so that underlies this issue.

 

[VO5]

What are you on? Or is it your normal? Do you wear a tinfoil hat to keep the aliens from reading your thoughts?

You....don't know me at all, just that I make posts on this website.
I...see things for what they really are.
You...believe everything you are told and all the nonsense you read in newspapers and what you see and hear on television.
I...am very different to you because I ignore all the hype in mainstream and am not satisfied until I get to the bottom of it all, the truth, with the gloves taken off.
You...have opinions.
I ....have views, and search and enquire extensively to be properly informed to hold the views I do.
You...are not properly informed, otherwise you would not post nonsense and unprovoked rudeness.
And that is enough for the moment.
If you want more, come back and I will give you more.

And, additionally, SWMBO, who has just seen this, says you are the one with the tin hat, not me... .

 

[VO5]

Why is the EU so obsessed with the free movement of people?
Its obvious there has to be limits or it turns to chaos as here in the UK
More poor countries are set to join soon...something had to be done and it was done by the people
to the shock of the EU...they have to think again at this obsession of "the free movement of people"
Also of course terrorists and criminals just love it!
Thank god we have the English channel!

The object of the exercise is hidden from the people of Europe, the citizens of the nations that compose the EU.
The plan is to progress the EU from a superstate to a gulag.
The idea is to plunder the wealth of nations, to remove the notion of patriotism, to erode individual and collective freedoms and to replace all of these with dictatorship.
The flooding of the EU with unwanted immigrants is part of the plan to subjugate and dominate and impoverish and ultimately totally control the European land mass and its peoples, not unlike what George Orwell described in his novel 1984, describing a society with neither love nor freedom.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

How sad to see the country taking many steps backwards and how many people are still referring to the war. We all live on the same planet and we all have the right to move for as long as we all contribute, adapt and respect the local cultures. Those who want to turn the clock back are kidding themselves and those who feel that England should be for them only, are disturbed. The reality is that the country has lost multi £billions and those who say that they love England are the very ones who don't give a toss about England, they just care about themselves only and are likely to contribute next to nothing towards this country.

I welcome anyone from anywhere who can contribute towards the success of the UK and lets hope that we can start making Yachts again, by introducing new innovative technologies, robotics and mass production techniques.

 

[Euphonyx]

You....don't know me at all, just that I make posts on this website.
I...see things for what they really are.
You...believe everything you are told and all the nonsense you read in newspapers and what you see and hear on television.
I...am very different to you because I ignore all the hype in mainstream and am not satisfied until I get to the bottom of it all, the truth, with the gloves taken off.
You...have opinions.
I ....have views, and search and enquire extensively to be properly informed to hold the views I do.
You...are not properly informed, otherwise you would not post nonsense and unprovoked rudeness.
And that is enough for the moment.
If you want more, come back and I will give you more.

And, additionally, SWMBO, who has just seen this, says you are the one with the tin hat, not me... .

Brexit = Hubris

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

The object of the exercise is hidden from the people of Europe, the citizens of the nations that compose the EU.
The plan is to progress the EU from a superstate to a gulag.
The idea is to plunder the wealth of nations, to remove the notion of patriotism, to erode individual and collective freedoms and to replace all of these with dictatorship.
The flooding of the EU with unwanted immigrants is part of the plan to subjugate and dominate and impoverish and ultimately totally control the European land mass and its peoples, not unlike what George Orwell described in his novel 1984, describing a society with neither love nor freedom.

Your way of thinking is very concerning and bizarre.

 

[Oldfellah]

I see that the most pro Brexit tabloids have published the reality of what leaving the EU will mean to the great British public. It would seem that a great many of the Leave voters are already regretting their decision. What a blxxxy mess we are in !!

 

[maxi77]

I see that the most pro Brexit tabloids have published the reality of what leaving the EU will mean to the great British public. It would seem that a great many of the Leave voters are already regretting their decision. What a blxxxy mess we are in !!

And we haven't started yet

 

[maxi77]

The object of the exercise is hidden from the people of Europe, the citizens of the nations that compose the EU.
The plan is to progress the EU from a superstate to a gulag.
The idea is to plunder the wealth of nations, to remove the notion of patriotism, to erode individual and collective freedoms and to replace all of these with dictatorship.
The flooding of the EU with unwanted immigrants is part of the plan to subjugate and dominate and impoverish and ultimately totally control the European land mass and its peoples, not unlike what George Orwell described in his novel 1984, describing a society with neither love nor freedom.

I would put on the tin foil helmet again things will get better

 

[VO5]

Your way of thinking is very concerning and bizarre.

No, it is just that you are not considering consequences.
For starters, in a democracy the electorate goes to the polls and votes, and elects by a majority of their votes who is elected and who gets to govern, and then for a fixed period of time followed by another election in which if the electorate is dissatisfied the party is voted out.
This is not the case in the EU.
The people who govern the EU are not elected by the electorate across countries that the EU is supposed to serve.
They are faceless beaurocrats who are not accountable to the people upon who they impose their will.
Furthermore there is no appeal.
There is no possibility of getting rid of them however displeased the people that they govern might be.
Then these beaurocrats have the power to overrule any laws the peoples of different countries may have, in the case of the UK passed by the Commons and then by the Lords.
It means the whole system of government and law is subject to the decrees imposed by these faceless beaurocrats who are unaccountable, faceless, unassailable and unsackable.
It is beaurocratic tyranny pure and simple.
If those consequences are not grave enough then there is the question of their idea to form a European Army and a European Police Force, again with superpowers to overrule the British Army and the UK Police.
But it gets even worse than this...
NATO is responsible for the external defence of NATO countries, and has no authority to act inernally.
But the proposed European Army will have the sole role of inward imposition.
Once that happens, with the police to follow, then you have a POLICE STATE, like the East Germans had the STASI and the NAZIS had the GESTAPO, by default, and people just succumb like sheep, so my thinking is not bizarre.
We have already experienced this in recent European history and it is foolish to disregard the lessons of modern history.

 

[VO5]

I would put on the tin foil helmet again things will get better

No, not the tin hat.
The ostrich.
The ostrich buries its head in the sand believing it cannot see therefore it is immune from being seen.
We live in perilous times.
Why do you think the EU is trying to rope in other countries, some arguably that are Asian, and not strictly European ?
Why ?
It is very simple.
As the economies of European members get successively trashed as a cunning plot to make them subservient prisoners to the whims of the EU, which is a profligate criminal enterprise masquerading as a superstate, so new sources of funds are required to keep the monster going, until such day as everybody is reduced to penury and they are able to impose their brutal rule on defenceless nation states who have lost their currencies (and hence the ability to print and administer their own currencies and their own individual wealth), who have lost the right to govern themselves, whose laws and statutes are reduced to loo rolls,
whose ability to defend themselves and their interests will be taken away from them, whose right to sack politicians to hold them to account and to get rid of them in elections if necessary, who will lose the right and the ability to control the armed forces and the police, who will lose control of freedom of the press, the right to remain innocent until proven guilty, and other horrors looming. So putting on your tin foil hat will not help get things better, because, in case you have not noticed not only are things bad, they will get worse. And they will get worse before they get better because in their relentless obsessed drive and determination to treat us all like sheep to the slaughter all these dire events you fear are engineered, because everything is known in advance because everything is decided in advance. You, like a lot of people, are conditioned to panic easily. Not me...

 

[MJWF]

The object of the exercise is hidden from the people of Europe, the citizens of the nations that compose the EU.
The plan is to progress the EU from a superstate to a gulag.
The idea is to plunder the wealth of nations, to remove the notion of patriotism, to erode individual and collective freedoms and to replace all of these with dictatorship.
The flooding of the EU with unwanted immigrants is part of the plan to subjugate and dominate and impoverish and ultimately totally control the European land mass and its peoples, not unlike what George Orwell described in his novel 1984, describing a society with neither love nor freedom.

Evidence for these statements?

Seems like project fear to me unless you can prove it then i think you have an agenda of your own.

Btw your posts are very frequent and long compared to others. My tiny brain and i am sure others would rather you could be more succinct.

 

[Kelpie]

@VO5
As such a champion of democratic rule, I presume you are also opposed to the monarchy and the unelected upper chamber?

 

[VO5]

Evidence for these statements?

Seems like project fear to me unless you can prove it then i think you have an agenda of your own.

Btw your posts are very frequent and long compared to others. My tiny brain and i am sure others would rather you could be more succinct.

I regret to learn you have a tiny brain and admit that as a consequence you are unable to cope.
If that is the case you ought to desist from entering discussions that stress your intellectual capabilities.
The more difficult strategy for you to follow would be to develop an enquiring mind.
But you admit that to do so is beyond your remit and expect others to do your homework for you.
There are many sources of information on this pernicious topic.
The easiest course for you to follow is to access the excellent discussions on the subject by very well informed individuals (who have done extensive research) who explain in simple language that anyone can understand in videos posted on YouTube, for example..

 

[VO5]

@VO5
As such a champion of democratic rule, I presume you are also opposed to the monarchy and the unelected upper chamber?

I am not opposed to the Monarchy nor to the House Of Lords, if that is your implication, in fact I am a supporter of our system of democracy via Parliament together with the checks and balances the Lords are able to provide, which, in our political model in the English Speaking World, is the model for other nations to emulate and aspire to and admire.

This political system, which is the envy of other nations not so fortunate to have been able to develop equivalents, is the fair and decent system that obsessed tyrannical beaurocrats are progressively doing their best to destroy by abusing the complacency and ignorance of a confused electorate. The result of the Brexit vote in the United Kingdom is a wake up call from a proud and independent people determined not to be subjugated by unelected, faceless, unaccountable representatives and executors of a planned global tyranny.

 

[Kelpie]

Yep that's wot I thought you'd say.
You must count yourself exceptionally lucky to have had the great fortune to be in the one nation on Earth whose system of administration is worthy of consideration. And nothing whatsoever to do with blindly, unthinkingly, defending the system out of sheer dumb loyalty.

 

[Niander]

I fear the establishment fears this rebellion and is working to subtly undermine it.

 

[VO5]

Yep that's wot I thought you'd say.
You must count yourself exceptionally lucky to have had the great fortune to be in the one nation on Earth whose system of administration is worthy of consideration. And nothing whatsoever to do with blindly, unthinkingly, defending the system out of sheer dumb loyalty.

Since you mention it, I will tell you what is really dumb...
It is to ignore the warning signs and to submit without a struggle against an agenda whose ultimate objective is to enslave you by depriving you of your legitimate rights under democratic principles.
By contrast, Niander , who follows your post, has clocked it, whereas you haven't. Not a clue have you got of what is in store.

 

[MJWF]

@vo5 - Such humility. But still no references to back your claims. You are a bore.