IN in EU or OUT from EU

[Tranona]

From the Guardian's comments section:

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

Hardly surprising that newspaper is taking that line - it is representative of the big "yellow" blob that is "London" and has always been out of touch with the majority of the country.

 

[interloper]

...
The object is to depower the member countries by steadily removing their rights to govern themselves and to replace that right with the imposition of centralised "dictatorship" for want of a better word, to ensure the destruction of nationhood, the eradication of national traditions, national institutions, national aspirations, national values, national interests and the individual wealth of these member nations, by stealth, by imposition of unworkeable laws and regulations, by decrees, by ultimately the overruling and overwhelming of formerly free people and condemning them to political and economic controls amounting to slavery.
...

VO5, How is the food in the psychiatric ward?

 

[VO5]

VO5, How is the food in the psychiatric ward?

And how is the food in your own part of the world ?
Your water is polluted with chemicals to keep you all docile.
Your GM food is engineered to shorten life.
Let's face it, you people are not an asset to the world, just a fist in everybody's face.

 

[interloper]

And how is the food in your own part of the world ?
Your water is polluted with chemicals to keep you all docile.
Your GM food is engineered to shorten life.
Let's face it, you people are not an asset to the world, just a fist in everybody's face.

Bravo!

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Look at the results of this table; in particular the young generation and the older generation, (over 65+, who have 16 average number of years to live)
Who is going to live for a generation, with the consequences of the decision?

 

[Bobc]

VO5, How is the food in the psychiatric ward?

Oi, don't be so rude. That's bang out of order.

 

[Capt Popeye]

View attachment 58428

Look at the results of this table; in particular the young generation and the older generation, (over 65+, who have 16 average number of years to live)
Who is going to live for a generation, with the consequences of the decision?

Humm, from your table we all know who is going to benefit from the Referendum decision, after us old uns have made the necessary sacrifices for the next few years for them !

 

[dom]

We've got to get moving here guys; whilst Juncker is insulting us the Mexicans have already worked night and day to produce a draft trade agreement and called the British ambassador to discuss it!! So that's the hols and some decent food sorted; now let's talk to Japan, Taiwan, India ...let's get seriously stuck into this and stop moaning

 

[Poignard]

We've got to get moving here guys; whilst Juncker is insulting us the Mexicans have already worked night and day to produce a draft trade agreement and called the British ambassador to discuss it!! So that's the hols and some decent food sorted; now let's talk to Japan, Taiwan, India ...let's get seriously stuck into this and stop moaning

Thank God. Our Tabasco sauce source is safe.

 

[GrahamD]

Hardly surprising that newspaper is taking that line - it is representative of the big "yellow" blob that is "London" and has always been out of touch with the majority of the country.

Maybe the Guardian is out of touch with the majority of the country, but so are the political elite, who are now in disarray. You've got to admit that this is a very interesting perspective on how events could pan out, and does not seem outside the realms of possibility, in the "real" world of politics.

Johnson and Gove have looked like the least delighted electoral victors I have ever seen. They were clearly aiming to lose the referendum, using it to advance their own political careers, and suddenly they have to deliver. I don't think that they have a clue where to start.

 

[interloper]

There may yet be a way out of this Brexit mess. The parliaments of Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Wales have authority to veto any Brexit legislation. The problem is that they are not obligated to take a position. Welsh voters supported the Brexit. Scottish voters were opposed, but the Scottish parliament might prefer to let it go forward to serve as an excuse for another independence referendum. Northern Ireland's parliament might be the best hope for a veto.

 

[robertj]

We've got to get moving here guys; whilst Juncker is insulting us the Mexicans have already worked night and day to produce a draft trade agreement and called the British ambassador to discuss it!! So that's the hols and some decent food sorted; now let's talk to Japan, Taiwan, India ...let's get seriously stuck into this and stop moaning

I totally agree Dom but it's the lazy good for nothing politicians that need to step up to the plate and start working, something totally alien to their self serving, sloth work ethic of the past.

 

[awol]

I assume the Brexiteers voted with the same grasp of reality as those who thought Boaty McBoatface was a good idea. I trust Westminster will treat this result with the same disdain.

 

[Serin]

Thank God. Our Tabasco sauce source is safe.

 

[Tranona]

There may yet be a way out of this Brexit mess. The parliaments of Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Wales have authority to veto any Brexit legislation. The problem is that they are not obligated to take a position. Welsh voters supported the Brexit. Scottish voters were opposed, but the Scottish parliament might prefer to let it go forward to serve as an excuse for another independence referendum. Northern Ireland's parliament might be the best hope for a veto.

The Scottish parliament MAY be able to veto, but as the legislation they would have to use has not been tested - that is they have never used it, there is disagreement about whether it is possible. The wording is very general (just like Article 50) and there is no precedent to use.

Just one of many imponderables surrounding the unprecedented event last friday. Just like the break up of the Labour party and the uncertain position of the EU as a whole. The landscape may well change dramatically this week given the planned meetings on tuesday/wednesday in Brussels.

 

[VO5]

I totally agree Dom but it's the lazy good for nothing politicians that need to step up to the plate and start working, something totally alien to their self serving, sloth work ethic of the past.

+1.

 

[interloper]

I assume the Brexiteers voted with the same grasp of reality as those who thought Boaty McBoatface was a good idea. I trust Westminster will treat this result with the same disdain.

The US equivalent of this is Trump getting the Republican nomination for president. Fortunately, the US electorate has a chance to get serious before the election that actually chooses the president.

 

[Capt Popeye]

I assume the Brexiteers voted with the same grasp of reality as those who thought Boaty McBoatface was a good idea. I trust Westminster will treat this result with the same disdain.

Humm not a chance the cat is amongst the pidegeons now, and the cats are out and hungry so no stupid remarks, eh ?

 

[robertj]

A total collapse of the EU within 2years if they don't alter their fascist ways. Many countries will follow now , or question its relationship.

 

[mainsail1]

There may yet be a way out of this Brexit mess. The parliaments of Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Wales have authority to veto any Brexit legislation. The problem is that they are not obligated to take a position. Welsh voters supported the Brexit. Scottish voters were opposed, but the Scottish parliament might prefer to let it go forward to serve as an excuse for another independence referendum. Northern Ireland's parliament might be the best hope for a veto.

You may think it is a mess but we call it democracy. Trying to defeat the democratic result because you know best will be the road to anarchy.
Democracy is a fragile institution but it is the only thing which keeps anarchy away from the door. Be very careful what you wish for.