If you think you're Tough because you Sail in WInter

We had a Norwegian Scout Troup visit us in the West Highlands when I was 12. They complained bitterly about how cold the Scottish summer was. Apparently, there is quite a difference between a maritime and continental cold.
 
Sandy said:
We had a Norwegian Scout Troup visit us in the West Highlands when I was 12. They complained bitterly about how cold the Scottish summer was. Apparently, there is quite a difference between a maritime and continental cold.
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It was a few years ago, but I remember being near Grenoble in late autumn. There was fresh snow on the mountains, and a good frost overnight, but I was comfortable in a T shirt because it was dry. The same temperature in damp old England would have me wrapped up with thick coat, gloves and scarf.

Mind you, I imagine the relative humidity in a Fjord in Greenland, must be pretty high.
 
There is also acclimatization. For various reasons, I spend significant amounts of time in Hong Kong, usually in the winter. I find UK summers uncomfortably warm, so you can imagine what I think about Hong Kong Summer temperatures! But in Hong Kong winter, I am usually quite comfortable in a t-shirt, while all the natives are shivering in puffer jackets and the like. When the temperature dips below 10°C I may need a pullover. But the point is that I am acclimatized to cooler temperatures.

I note that a boat that is frozen in but still in contact with unfrozen sea will actually be considerably warmer than the same boat out of the water, as liquid sea water cannot be colder than about -2°C, whereas air temperatures can easily drop far lower.
 
When in central Canada one winter the police were called.
Because I was outside on morning and it was minus 40c and only wearing pyjamas and snow boots.
I told the police that the house was like an oven and I needed to enjoy the milder temperature.
They had a good laugh and got back into their head car.
 
I don’t mean this in an admonishing ‘elfin safety’ sort of way, but if one of them had gone through the ice, what then? I’ve always assumed it’s no mean feat to pull a person out of a hole in ice, especially as you’re at risk of going through yourself if you go near to help.
 
fredrussell said:
I don’t mean this in an admonishing ‘elfin safety’ sort of way, but if one of them had gone through the ice, what then? I’ve always assumed it’s no mean feat to pull a person out of a hole in ice, especially as you’re at risk of going through yourself if you go near to help.
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Not going to happen. That ice is thick enough to land aircraft on it!
 
Stemar said:
They're both experienced in arctic conditions, and well aware of the risks - that's why they were using the ice spear. They were also wearing drysuits, so would stay functional long enough to sort themselves out.
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Yep - obviously. Hence my “not admonishing etc” comment. I was more interested in what the MO might be for getting a person out of a hole in the ice.
 
The previous series on completing the North West passage across the polar circle was a particularly striking series.Two additional cheerful Finns for crew contributed to the mix.
And it was all made worthwhile when they found another remote sauna.
Passage to Greenland
 
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fredrussell said:
Yep - obviously. Hence my “not admonishing etc” comment. I was more interested in what the MO might be for getting a person out of a hole in the ice.
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As with any person in water incident, the first step is prevention, hence the poking with the ice spear. What they do if it happens, I don't know.

First thoughts are a rope to secure the person and pull them out if possible. If that doesn't work, push the dinghy over the thin ice, maybe? It doesn't matter if that breaks through, but by the time you've done that, you must be getting close to the limit of survivability in that sort of temperature.

I'm curious too. Antarctic Pilot? Any other experts?
 
Stemar said:
As with any person in water incident, the first step is prevention, hence the poking with the ice spear. What they do if it happens, I don't know.

First thoughts are a rope to secure the person and pull them out if possible. If that doesn't work, push the dinghy over the thin ice, maybe? It doesn't matter if that breaks through, but by the time you've done that, you must be getting close to the limit of survivability in that sort of temperature.

I'm curious too. Antarctic Pilot? Any other experts?
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H&S in Antarctica rules are that you don't go on sea ice until it is thick enough to be safe. These days, most Antarctic travel happens in summer using aircraft, so sea ice travel isn't part of the mix as it was before air transport became prevalent. I am not aware of any standard recovery procedures, I am afraid, but I am sure they would centre around prevention.
 
Stemar said:
As with any person in water incident, the first step is prevention, hence the poking with the ice spear. What they do if it happens, I don't know.

First thoughts are a rope to secure the person and pull them out if possible. If that doesn't work, push the dinghy over the thin ice, maybe? It doesn't matter if that breaks through, but by the time you've done that, you must be getting close to the limit of survivability in that sort of temperature.

I'm curious too. Antarctic Pilot? Any other experts?
Click to expand...
H&S in Antarctica rules are that you don't go on sea ice until it is thick enough to be safe. These days, most Antarctic travel happens in summer using aircraft, so sea ice travel isn't part of the mix as it was before air transport became prevalent. I am not aware of any standard recovery procedures, I am afraid, but I am sure they would centre around prevention. Sea ice travel is dangerous at the start and end of winter, when the sea ice starts to break up; within my association with Antarctic matters, there have been fatalities as a result of people making ill-advised decisions to risk travelling across deteriorating sea ice.

To get back to the original video, of course, I can't tell from the video BUT a not uncommon scenario is that there is melt on the surface of sea ice which then freezes over, giving a thin skin of ice over a few inches of water and then solid ice. Given the general appearance of the ice in the video, I wouldn't be surprised if that's the situation. But that is speculation; the only way to be sure is probing, as the video shows.
 
westernman said:
I have rowed at on the Thames when it has been snowing.
And I went for a swim as well. Not intentionally of course.

Until the swim I was comfortable in shorts and singlet.
No so much afterwards.
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Me too, as bow in the colts eight, I had to look ahead every few seconds to see if there were bits of ice big enough to damage us.
Our coach; Mr Holford, wore a wonderful full length fur coat in the winter. Apparently, a few years previously, the boat foundered at the Heads of the River meet. He managed to swim ashore without ditching it.
Drove a nice Riley 1.5, with another kept for spares.
 
Mister E said:
The Royal Marines get out of a hole in the ice using 2 ski poles.
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Finns like Juho & Sohvi all know that when walking on unreliable ice you carry a pair of ice spikes ('jäänaskalit') around your neck. Here's a video showing how to use them:
Each is basically a handle with a short steel spike. I haven't noticed if Juho & Sohvi have these, but they'll certainly know about them.
 
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