ICC - not so international

[E39mad]

I did my ICC back in 2017 in Croatia - I already had Day Skipper 1989 and Yacht Master 1994 theory but thought I needed the ICC for med charters.

My ICC was done through Activity Yachting (recommended) who provided a UK MCA verified ICC through a Canadian operator.

Now my ICC has run out and I contacted the RYA who initially said they could renew my ICC so I joined only to be told upon application that they could not do this as it was not issued by them. So I contacted the MCA who threw me back to the RYA as they don't renew them. So it looks like I've got to go back to the original supplier to get the renewal. It's slightly more expensive and not an problem to get but I have complained to the RYA and asked for my membership to refunded as I purely joined to get the ICC renewed.

So if your ICC is not RYA affiliated even if it is MCA compliant don't bother them with the renewal.

 

[Momac]

I have complained to the RYA and asked for my membership to refunded as I purely joined to get the ICC renewed.

Don't see why RYA should refund you but do keep us posted .
.

 

[E39mad]

Don't see why RYA should refund you but do keep us posted .
.

I informed them that my ICC was not issued through them and over the phone they said they could renew it so I joined only to be told later that it was not possible. This thread is a heads up for others whose ICC is not issued through the RYA.

 

[Sandy]

If you have your Day Skipper then you can get an ICC. Might be worth another call as RYA Membership with the Dazed Kipper gets you an ICC.

 

[Tranona]

I did my ICC back in 2017 in Croatia - I already had Day Skipper 1989 and Yacht Master 1994 theory but thought I needed the ICC for med charters.

My ICC was done through Activity Yachting (recommended) who provided a UK MCA verified ICC through a Canadian operator.

Now my ICC has run out and I contacted the RYA who initially said they could renew my ICC so I joined only to be told upon application that they could not do this as it was not issued by them. So I contacted the MCA who threw me back to the RYA as they don't renew them. So it looks like I've got to go back to the original supplier to get the renewal. It's slightly more expensive and not an problem to get but I have complained to the RYA and asked for my membership to refunded as I purely joined to get the ICC renewed.

So if your ICC is not RYA affiliated even if it is MCA compliant don't bother them with the renewal.

You seem to misunderstand the nature of the ICC. It is issued by governments and in the UK the RYA (and BSAC) issue them on behalf of the government to qualified persons. The MCA is not involved. You need to know the government who issued the ICC (maybe Canadian?) Suspect you have been subject to a scam and sold a worthless bit of paper and you are right to warn people about your experience.

 

[Momac]

Sounds like the OP is already well qualified to obtain a new ICC (not a renewal) though the RYA ?

 

[ylop]

Sounds like the OP is already well qualified to obtain a new ICC (not a renewal) though the RYA ?

That depends how you parse the sentence: “I did my ICC back in 2017 in Croatia - I already had Day Skipper 1989 and Yacht Master 1994 theory but thought I needed the ICC for med charters.”

since the simplest way for someone with Day Skipper Practical Certificate to get an ICC in 2017 would have been an administrative exercise I read that as “I had Day Skipper Theory (1989) and YM Theory (1994)”

the fact there is mention of Canada and it’s not the RYA would make me suspect this is an ICC issued by IYT. My understanding is IYT are set up as a commercial alternative to the RYA monopoly as recreational training provider, and they CAN issue ICC’s to UK citizens.

presumably IYT have a renewal process (for a fee!) just like the RYA do?

 

[E39mad]

No scam involved and my ICC although originating in Canada is "Authorised by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency" - it even has a UK ensign flag above the MCA letters on the front of the credit card style certificate. Yes it was issued by International Yacht Training.

Yes both my RYA qualifications are theory so do not comply with the rules to automatically obtain an ICC.

I have managed to renew through IYT albeit at a much greater cost than the RYA.

 

[ylop]

I appreciate the frustration that the RYA misinformed you about their ability to renew the ICC, but it surely isn’t a surprise that the RYA can’t issue ICCs for assessment performed by a competitor?

I’m not sure what the purpose of the original post was? If it was to warn anyone else who had an IYT ICC not to waste their time or money trying the RYA path for renewal surely you’d have been clear it was an IYT certificate you held? If it was seeking help to understand who issued your certificate and how it could be renewed surely you’d have thanked me for solving the riddle for you (a redacted picture of the old ICC might have helped!)? If it was already done and you just wanted a moan about IYT fees then surely you’d have put it in post 1? So my conclusion is you are asking (or perhaps hoping that a public question will persuade them) if the RYA should refund your membership fee?

I suspect that technically they will have no obligation to do so. You can pay RYA for ICC renewal without becoming a member (which I guess might be refundable, or partially refundable, although often application fees are not), or join and then the ICC is free. Your argument is they falsely induced you to join. I suspect you probably could have had more diligence to check your eligibility so have little sympathy and you will continue to have the rest of the benefits of membership so it would be a no from me. However having difficult people as members is rarely a good use of time, so it’s probably better for them to refund/refuse your membership too!

 

[footsoldier]

I’m not sure what the purpose of the original post was? If it was to warn anyone else who had an IYT ICC not to waste their time or money trying the RYA path for renewal surely you’d have been clear it was an IYT certificate you held? If it was seeking help to understand who issued your certificate and how it could be renewed surely you’d have thanked me for solving the riddle for you (a redacted picture of the old ICC might have helped!)? If it was already done and you just wanted a moan about IYT fees then surely you’d have put it in post 1? So my conclusion is you are asking (or perhaps hoping that a public question will persuade them) if the RYA should refund your membership fee?

Could not agree more. Summarised to perfection.

 

[Tranona]

No scam involved and my ICC although originating in Canada is "Authorised by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency" - it even has a UK ensign flag above the MCA letters on the front of the credit card style certificate. Yes it was issued by International Yacht Training.

Yes both my RYA qualifications are theory so do not comply with the rules to automatically obtain an ICC.

I have managed to renew through IYT albeit at a much greater cost than the RYA.

So why are you complaining? They issued it (on behalf of the Canadian government) so they are the only body that can renew it. As I suggested the MCA has nothing to do with the ICC so I am not sure what their claim of "recognised by the MCA" actually means.

If you want a UK issued ICC then you can be assessed by an RYA examiner and get one issued by the RYA and renewed free to members.

 

[finestgreen]

So why are you complaining? They issued it (on behalf of the Canadian government) so they are the only body that can renew it. As I suggested the MCA has nothing to do with the ICC so I am not sure what their claim of "recognised by the MCA" actually means.

If you want a UK issued ICC then you can be assessed by an RYA examiner and get one issued by the RYA and renewed free to members.

The RYA ICC does say "Issued by RYA on the authority of the UK Maritime and Coastguard Agency"

 

[Black Sheep]

I appreciate the frustration that the RYA misinformed you about their ability to renew the ICC, but it surely isn’t a surprise that the RYA can’t issue ICCs for assessment performed by a competitor?

I’m not sure what the purpose of the original post was? If it was to warn anyone else who had an IYT ICC not to waste their time or money trying the RYA path for renewal surely you’d have been clear it was an IYT certificate you held? If it was seeking help to understand who issued your certificate and how it could be renewed surely you’d have thanked me for solving the riddle for you (a redacted picture of the old ICC might have helped!)? If it was already done and you just wanted a moan about IYT fees then surely you’d have put it in post 1? So my conclusion is you are asking (or perhaps hoping that a public question will persuade them) if the RYA should refund your membership fee?

I suspect that technically they will have no obligation to do so. You can pay RYA for ICC renewal without becoming a member (which I guess might be refundable, or partially refundable, although often application fees are not), or join and then the ICC is free. Your argument is they falsely induced you to join. I suspect you probably could have had more diligence to check your eligibility so have little sympathy and you will continue to have the rest of the benefits of membership so it would be a no from me. However having difficult people as members is rarely a good use of time, so it’s probably better for them to refund/refuse your membership too!

And there, ladies and gentlemen, is a good example of why people avoid posting on these forums!

There's no need to try guessing the motives for the original post. The OP said quite clearly in Post 1: "So if your ICC is not RYA affiliated even if it is MCA compliant don't bother them with the renewal. " and again in Post 3: "This thread is a heads up for others whose ICC is not issued through the RYA. ". Very useful input to the forum, I should think.

I don't know why you're getting hung up on who the provider was - that doesn't matter; what matters is who the provider wasn't. It wasn't the RYA. E39mad said so quite clearly in Post 1.

It might be a surprise to you if the RYA could renew a third party certificate. But it's also plausible (to an outsider) that they could - it's all in the MCA scheme, after all. You say "you probably could have had more diligence to check your eligibility" - but the OP did exactly that. S/He called them up and asked them. What else do you think s/he could have done?

I am left wondering what your own motivations were to post that attack on another forum member, who's aim seems to have been to advise others who might be in the same position.

 

[Tranona]

The RYA ICC does say "Issued by RYA on the authority of the UK Maritime and Coastguard Agency"

That is because it is the government department that has the authority and delegates to the RYA. However the ICC is a UN certificate and MCA has no say in it, unlike the RYA qualifications that might meet the ICC requirements. So what is it about a Canadian authorised ICC that needs MCA recognition?

 

[Tranona]

And there, ladies and gentlemen, is a good example of why people avoid posting on these forums!

It might be a surprise to you if the RYA could renew a third party certificate. But it's also plausible (to an outsider) that they could - it's all in the MCA scheme, after all. You say "you probably could have had more diligence to check your eligibility" - but the OP did exactly that. S/He called them up and asked them. What else do you think s/he could have done?

The point is that the ICC is NOT on the "MCA scheme" if by that you mean the RYA qualifications that meet the MCA requirements. The ICC is UN and issued by governments to qualified persons. In this case it was Canadian based on completion of a third party (IYT) course and assessment. The RYA has a similar assessment for the ICC that is not part of the MCA scheme. That is the route I took for the ICC because like the OP I had only the theory certificate, not the practical so I don't have a Day Skipper, just an ICC

 

[finestgreen]

That is because it is the government department that has the authority and delegates to the RYA. However the ICC is a UN certificate and MCA has no say in it, unlike the RYA qualifications that might meet the ICC requirements. So what is it about a Canadian authorised ICC that needs MCA recognition?

It's not a UN certificate, it's a certificate from someone authorised by a signatory government to certify the holder has met the requirements set by the UN.

IYT couldn't issue an ICC to a UK citizen resident in the UK unless it was authorised to do so by the UK government

 

[Laysula]

Why is the ICC only valid for five years? I did my Day skipper 25 years ago and it's valid for life, same with my VHF Licence. It's just a moneymaking exercise in my opinion.

 

[bill bligh]

Do you need an ICC? As long as you have your original certificates from any recognised authority you should be OK. I have heard of people going round the world without any formal certification or training with out any bureaucratic problems.

 

[Sandy]

Why is the ICC only valid for five years? I did my Day skipper 25 years ago and it's valid for life, same with my VHF Licence. It's just a moneymaking exercise in my opinion.

Money making? I can't see any organisation making any money issuing certificates.

I get mine 'free'* as a member of the RYA and holder of a Day Skipper course completion certificate.

*Annual membership times five.

 

[Sandy]

Do you need an ICC as long as you have your original certificates from any recognised authority. I have heard of people going round the world without any formal certification or training.

Try chartering a boat overseas.