I now never turn on my VHF radio...

[harvey38]

As there's no requirement for a pleasure vessel to have a VHF installed, how do they enforce that?

Maybe no requirement until you operate/stray into waters where communication is mandatory. I have to call up two radio stations to gain permission to leave and enter my berth at Ramsgate, a radio is not mandatory but with out it, I can't go anywhere.

 

[Refueler]

mmmmm the comment about PMR instead of VHF and this reply :

"They’ll need to convince RYA as vhf on safety boat is required for all tidal clubs!"

RYA has no authority or jurisdiction ... they can only require such for RYA run events.

PMR is a good tool - but as a regular user of both VHF and PMR - I can say for me - PMR is not suitable for on-water as it limits just as only M1 does ...

My local harbour - we are required to call up VTS and inform of our passage through commercial areas ... but in fact now its rare to hear anyone call in ! But go back a few years and calls were made .. why the change ? Commercial traffic has reduced seriously with the loss of Russian transit trade.

 

[st599]

"They’ll need to convince RYA as vhf on safety boat is required for all tidal clubs!"

RYA has no authority or jurisdiction ... they can only require such for RYA run events.

If you want to be an RYA affiliated club, then the affiliation process requires you to lodge a copy of your safety management plan showing how you implement their requirements.

 

[Refueler]

If you want to be an RYA affiliated club, then the affiliation process requires you to lodge a copy of your safety management plan showing how you implement their requirements.

I have no argument with that ... as I said - RYA run events ... or lets expand it to RYA affiliated Clubs ...

But RYA has no authority as in Law to impose .. but of course failure to follow their GUIDELINES would result in possible loss of affiliation.

My point was the comment I pasted by another implying RYA authority.... and I actually forgot to question the words : ALL TIDAL CLUBS ? Surely there are Clubs who are not RYA affiliated or follow RYA ??

 

[st599]

I have no argument with that ... as I said - RYA run events ... or lets expand it to RYA affiliated Clubs ...

But RYA has no authority as in Law to impose .. but of course failure to follow their GUIDELINES would result in possible loss of affiliation.

My point was the comment I pasted by another implying RYA authority.... and I actually forgot to question the words : ALL TIDAL CLUBS ? Surely there are Clubs who are not RYA affiliated or follow RYA ??

Not many. A club has to be affiliated to be an organising authority according to the Racing Rules of Sailing or to offer training courses. Which are club's major selling points.

 

[Alicatt]

Here all vessels of 7.5m or longer are required to have a VHF, if your vessel is to be used on the sea then they require you to have 2 VHF, usually done by having a handheld in addition to the fixed radio.
On the inland waterways 16 is not monitored, 9 is the "calling channel" which no one uses, 10 is for commercial vessels communicating bridge to bridge and is what everyone uses for calling, the waterway people even tell you to go back to 10 after using your radio to call up the locks to get them to cycle for you.

 

[Irish Rover]

A short while ago I heard Olympia Radio on Ch 16 call a sailing yacht [didn't catch the name] and advise them of a MOB incident in the area where they were sailing and requested them to commence a search. There was no corresponding DSC alert and I didn't hear a Mayday transmission.

 

[ylop]

My point was the comment I pasted by another implying RYA authority.... and I actually forgot to question the words : ALL TIDAL CLUBS ? Surely there are Clubs who are not RYA affiliated or follow RYA ??

I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing - clearly the RYA’s scope is limited to RYA affiliated clubs, training centres and events. Are you aware of any clubs in the U.K. running dinghy racing which are not affiliated to the RYA? I’m not aware of any. Seems even less likely in the solent where the PMR “proposal” was being suggested - presumably the reasons this was “being discussed” was to make sure interoperability was possible when the boats get together, so if there is a rogue club doing its own thing they’ll not be part of that regional operation anyway.

What’s more if there are any, their insurers may well require them to follow the “best practice defined by the sport’s national governing body”. As well as convincing insurers you are not a maverick (high risk) being affiliated has some implications for coding of vessels, adventure activities licensing, competing in / organising World Sailing events, funding for training, coaching etc. Even getting local authority support without being affiliated will make you a whole heap of extra safeguarding requirements which the RYA will help you navigate.

So I’m pretty certain that if there are sailing clubs in the U.K. who have chosen not to affiliate to the RYA - they probably don’t include organised dinghy racing, and most likely have no under 18s if the do.

A dinghy sailing club in the U.K. would need a really good reason not to be affiliated. “We don’t want to have VHF radios on our safety boats” would not be a good reason.

Of course that doesn’t mean they can’t use PMRs, WhatsApp or any other tool for organising the racing etc - but the expectation that they have VHF is a safety one, not a quality of organisation one.

 

[Irish Rover]

I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing -

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone

 

[nortada]

Constant listening watch on handheld (I have 2). Not switched main VHF on in 3 years.

Don’t really need to in the Walton Backwaters.

 

[PaulRainbow]

As there's no requirement for a pleasure vessel to have a VHF installed, how do they enforce that?

Torpedo boats

 

[B27]

I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing - clearly the RYA’s scope is limited to RYA affiliated clubs, training centres and events. Are you aware of any clubs in the U.K. running dinghy racing which are not affiliated to the RYA? I’m not aware of any. Seems even less likely in the solent where the PMR “proposal” was being suggested - presumably the reasons this was “being discussed” was to make sure interoperability was possible when the boats get together, so if there is a rogue club doing its own thing they’ll not be part of that regional operation anyway.

What’s more if there are any, their insurers may well require them to follow the “best practice defined by the sport’s national governing body”. As well as convincing insurers you are not a maverick (high risk) being affiliated has some implications for coding of vessels, adventure activities licensing, competing in / organising World Sailing events, funding for training, coaching etc. Even getting local authority support without being affiliated will make you a whole heap of extra safeguarding requirements which the RYA will help you navigate.

So I’m pretty certain that if there are sailing clubs in the U.K. who have chosen not to affiliate to the RYA - they probably don’t include organised dinghy racing, and most likely have no under 18s if the do.

A dinghy sailing club in the U.K. would need a really good reason not to be affiliated. “We don’t want to have VHF radios on our safety boats” would not be a good reason.

Of course that doesn’t mean they can’t use PMRs, WhatsApp or any other tool for organising the racing etc - but the expectation that they have VHF is a safety one, not a quality of organisation one.

Meanwhile, out on the water, race teams will be on Ch M, and very likely not listening on 16.

And many vessels operating in Portsmouth will be on 11.
Sometimes Ch11 in Portsmouth can be full on, you wait several minutes to get an opportunity to speak.
Simply not practical to be listening to any drivel on 16 as well.

That is the reality of what is actually happening in the real world.

 

[rooi]

Isn't that why we have Dual Watch? So Ch16 can continue to be monitored while we are on 11 or 12 for VTS / Harbour master

 

[PaulRainbow]

Meanwhile, out on the water, race teams will be on Ch M, and very likely not listening on 16.

And many vessels operating in Portsmouth will be on 11.
Sometimes Ch11 in Portsmouth can be full on, you wait several minutes to get an opportunity to speak.
Simply not practical to be listening to any drivel on 16 as well.

That is the reality of what is actually happening in the real world.

In your World, maybe.

Meanwhile, in the real World, people use dual or triple watch to monitor required channels. I have to monitor 68 when i leave my berth and change to 71 further along the river. In reality it makes more sense to monitor both, as shipping can be coming/going in both directions, to either/both ports. Monitoring 68 and 71 are bye laws, so technically it's a requirement to have a VHF and the relevant documentation to fit it and use it.

It's not to difficult to comply and makes sense to do so, i would listen in even if not required to do so, i get an early warning of any ship movements, well before the ships even let go their lines.

 

[Mister E]

Those of us who are fortunate not to sail the South Coast and even worse the Solent areas for radio traffic purposes have no real idea of how crowded it is.
With all the Dfls and Romford lot if everyone used 16 to communicate it would be impossible to get a word in.
So clubs use m channels that they are licensed for. They have probably not done the radio course to learn how to say help we are sinking.

In my area the radio traffic is more likely to be stay out of the shooting area or the weather.
The chances of a yacht being close enough to help in a mayday or similar is very small.

 

[capnsensible]

Meanwhile, out on the water, race teams will be on Ch M, and very likely not listening on 16.

And many vessels operating in Portsmouth will be on 11.
Sometimes Ch11 in Portsmouth can be full on, you wait several minutes to get an opportunity to speak.
Simply not practical to be listening to any drivel on 16 as well.

That is the reality of what is actually happening in the real world.

When racing in the Solent, simply use the dual watch facility on your radio.

Ch 16 is far more important than 11.....

 

[Refueler]

I think you are arguing for the sake of arguing - clearly the RYA’s scope is limited to RYA affiliated clubs, training centres and events. Are you aware of any clubs in the U.K. running dinghy racing which are not affiliated to the RYA? I’m not aware of any. Seems even less likely in the solent where the PMR “proposal” was being suggested - presumably the reasons this was “being discussed” was to make sure interoperability was possible when the boats get together, so if there is a rogue club doing its own thing they’ll not be part of that regional operation anyway.

What’s more if there are any, their insurers may well require them to follow the “best practice defined by the sport’s national governing body”. As well as convincing insurers you are not a maverick (high risk) being affiliated has some implications for coding of vessels, adventure activities licensing, competing in / organising World Sailing events, funding for training, coaching etc. Even getting local authority support without being affiliated will make you a whole heap of extra safeguarding requirements which the RYA will help you navigate.

So I’m pretty certain that if there are sailing clubs in the U.K. who have chosen not to affiliate to the RYA - they probably don’t include organised dinghy racing, and most likely have no under 18s if the do.

A dinghy sailing club in the U.K. would need a really good reason not to be affiliated. “We don’t want to have VHF radios on our safety boats” would not be a good reason.

Of course that doesn’t mean they can’t use PMRs, WhatsApp or any other tool for organising the racing etc - but the expectation that they have VHF is a safety one, not a quality of organisation one.

No I am not arguing for sake of arguing ... but it sure looks like you are.

My point was the original statement was a sweeping in error comment .....

I agree that Insurers may look badly on a non affiliated club - but again ... I suggest that is not 100% universal ...

Your tone and you are not only one who makes the error of thinking I am too distant / disconnected from UK sailing ... that is far from fact .. I am still an RYA member ... I am involved in discussion groups ... have many close friends sailing Solent and other areas of UK / Ireland ... and make it a point to keep up reasonably with info as it evolves ... I agree that sometimes like EVERYONE else - I step of the rail occasionally ... fair enough.

 

[ylop]

No I am not arguing for sake of arguing ... but it sure looks like you are.

My point was the original statement was a sweeping in error comment .....

I agree that Insurers may look badly on a non affiliated club - but again ... I suggest that is not 100% universal ...

Your tone and you are not only one who makes the error of thinking I am too distant / disconnected from UK sailing ... that is far from fact .. I am still an RYA member ... I am involved in discussion groups ... have many close friends sailing Solent and other areas of UK / Ireland ... and make it a point to keep up reasonably with info as it evolves ... I agree that sometimes like EVERYONE else - I step of the rail occasionally ... fair enough.

Go on then name me a singe Dinghy Racing Club or Training Centre doing dinghy training/racing on the Solent (which is what was being discussed) which is not affiliated to the RYA. For each one you find I’ll send a £10 donation to one of the Solent independent lifeboat stations. You may have considered my post inaccurate, but it was at best imprecise by not highlighting the obvious theoretical exception. Hopefully my comment was at least slightly useful to any RYA affiliated club considering ditching VHF.

 

[B27]

Isn't that why we have Dual Watch? So Ch16 can continue to be monitored while we are on 11 or 12 for VTS / Harbour master

You could in theory use DW when working on ChM, but I don't think many people do.
As observed by others, clubs are often not listening on 16.
Dual watch is not generally two receivers, it flicks between channels and locks to one it finds is busy, so you can miss traffic if there's anything happening on both at once.

If you're ever near Portsmouth on a foggy day, 16 won't get a look-in on dual watch.
If you're serious about listening to two channels, fit two radios. A lot of boats do!

 

[st599]

You could in theory use DW when working on ChM, but I don't think many people do.
As observed by others, clubs are often not listening on 16.

If they're operating on a club licence, they legally can't listen on Ch. 16. It covers M1, M2 and 80, but 80 required volunteers to have SRC and patrol boats to have ships licences, so most don't.