I now never turn on my VHF radio...

[PaulRainbow]

Can't say about the UK, but monitoring is only required aboard commercial vessels in the US.

See #59 and some others.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Please don’t go off on your hobby horse again - leave this thread to be about VHF / DSC not your personal fixation

If you don't like my posts, you are not compelled to read then

All I am doing is asking questions and expressing my opinion.

If the rules of the forum don't allow anyone to express, their personal opinion please tell me where that rule is stated

 

[wonkywinch]

Interesting discussion... I've learnt a few things I didn't previously know.

Back to the theme of being really unseamanlike, I've now discovered a way to turn off the multitude of alarms on my VHF (Standard Horizon GX2100E DSC Class D transceiver with AIS fitted in 2014).

I think this covers the whole list! (However I'd be interested to know which DSC alarm I might keep - "Individual"? - so that I can selfishly ensure that at the minimum myself and my crew are kept safe from peril at sea?)

Of course once all these nuisance-calls are silenced, I'll once again leave the ship's VHF radio on Ch16 all the time as I used to... and thereby be aware of and able to respond to assist in a local rescue if I can, or assist with a Mayday relay if that situation arises, etc.

View attachment 183391

Well done for digging deeper and looking at the manual. Just turn off the beep for the "all ships" one, that is the most common from CG and probably the one that irritates you. You will of course potentially miss an all ships distress call from another vessel by DSC, but generally these would be followed up by voice on CH16 so you would hear the call or follow up chatter.

 

[boomerangben]

The whole radio thing is interesting. I have a hand held plus a spare battery but no electrics on board so a weeks voyage in isolated anchorages means a dilemma on how I use the radio. I need it for my home port. The Solent traffic level is thankfully not an issue where I sail.

With increasing access to boating and radios, it is all the more important that discipline is impressed upon and exercised by users. Ch 16 is the one and only distress channel so its use should be respected by all. Same with DSC

Should club safety boats monitor 16? I don’t think so. They have responsibility to the dinghy’s in their charge. If they responded to external calls, they leave many vulnerable in small boats. Should they keep better tabs on their charges? Of course and no doubt the incident above of a broken Topaz left a very red faced safety boat crew

Should we monitor 16? Probably. Should we be compelled to? Probably not. but radios are not the only means of attracting attention when in distress and we are required as crews to maintain a lookout AT ALL TIMES. So a visual look out will pick up visual distress signals and these are probably more effective in gaining help from a nearby vessel than a radio call, especially in a high density traffic and radio call area. In an age where we default to (because is goochy tech and affordable) radios etc, we turn our backs on other means of communication which might well be much better suited to the situation than the radio.

As for the CG only using lat and long…….. having been on the receiving end of the red telephone for over 10 years, distance and bearing from a land mark is almost useless in certain parts of the coastline and given that most vessels now that are capable of responding and offering assistance have the numbers on the screen in front of them, it is not unreasonable to expect skippers capable of navigation to have a means of making note of and plotting a position. Years ago on paper charts, you might have been excused, but in this day and age, if you expect people to monitor ch16, you must hold your end of the bargain and be prepared and able to plot a position in whatever means it is given

 

[mrming]

As for the CG only using lat and long…….. having been on the receiving end of the red telephone for over 10 years, distance and bearing from a land mark is almost useless in certain parts of the coastline and given that most vessels now that are capable of responding and offering assistance have the numbers on the screen in front of them, it is not unreasonable to expect skippers capable of navigation to have a means of making note of and plotting a position. Years ago on paper charts, you might have been excused, but in this day and age, if you expect people to monitor ch16, you must hold your end of the bargain and be prepared and able to plot a position in whatever means it is given

It makes sense except that clearly communicating a long string of numbers over an unclear radio conversation or phone call can be difficult. A system like “what three words” would be much more likely to be communicated and understood clearly.

 

[boomerangben]

It makes sense except that clearly communicating a long string of numbers over an unclear radio conversation or phone call can be difficult. A system like “what three words” would be much more likely to be communicated and understood clearly.

I agree, none of the means of passing a position is without risk of a miscommunication. I’ve ended up 120nm out when using a lat and long. So a combinations of different means in the same message might be a good idea

 

[ylop]

As for the CG only using lat and long…….. having been on the receiving end of the red telephone for over 10 years, distance and bearing from a land mark is almost useless in certain parts of the coastline and given that most vessels now that are capable of responding and offering assistance have the numbers on the screen in front of them, it is not unreasonable to expect skippers capable of navigation to have a means of making note of and plotting a position. Years ago on paper charts, you might have been excused, but in this day and age, if you expect people to monitor ch16, you must hold your end of the bargain and be prepared and able to plot a position in whatever means it is given

Eh, they aren’t mutually exclusive. Description is a useful sense check for a lat lon read/hear/transcribe error as well as providing an immediate “that’s not far from me - I should ask to repeat the details I missed over the wind/engine or failed to write down as I was still going down the companionway steps to get a pen.

It makes sense except that clearly communicating a long string of numbers over an unclear radio conversation or phone call can be difficult. A system like “what three words” would be much more likely to be communicated and understood clearly.

You’ve obviously never heard a foreign vessel try to describe their position with W3W - a string of numbers is actually much clearer and more universal than unusual words in a funny accent* over the radio. They switched to 999 in the end so I never actually found out if they were close - but it sounded like a small boat with a handheld, probably French?, no GPS and CG asked them to use W3W. There was no way for me to infer from the words I could make out if they were close - even with a partial lat/lon you can read between the lines.

*and that was just the CG operator in Belfast!

 

[Bristolfashion]

The whole radio thing is interesting. I have a hand held plus a spare battery but no electrics on board so a weeks voyage in isolated anchorages means a dilemma on how I use the radio. I need it for my home port. The Solent traffic level is thankfully not an issue where I sail.

Those compact Li Ion "jump starter" batteries are handy for charging up stuff - and provide a spare torch. You can even attach a small solar panel to keep it topped up.

 

[B27]

It makes sense except that clearly communicating a long string of numbers over an unclear radio conversation or phone call can be difficult. A system like “what three words” would be much more likely to be communicated and understood clearly.

w3w is even worse.
If you say 4 degrees west, I know that's somewhere between Plymouth and Salcombe.
If you tell me a w3w 'address' it could be 250 metres from mine or it could be in South America and I'd be none the wiser.

 

[B27]

I agree, none of the means of passing a position is without risk of a miscommunication. I’ve ended up 120nm out when using a lat and long. So a combinations of different means in the same message might be a good idea

Personally I would use the lat and long, with what ever I could back it up with, even if it's 'a mile or two off the cost between the River Yealm and Burgh Island'.

 

[Irish Rover]

As I said earlier in the thread I don't hear too many Mayday, Pan Pan or DSC alerts. When I do, it's impossible to get the coordinates, so I've stopped trying. I'm always generally aware of my position so I just listen for the big numbers and if they don't correspond to my general location, or are close, I ignore. Right now I'm on the boat and my big numbers are 37N 27E. I'd be interested in those, or a 37/26 or 38/27.

 

[B27]

We have similar on the Humber, expected to report entering river and monitoring VTS channels. I recall being told this is on local port / river bylaws

That's about typical, you've heard it's a requirement, but you haven't actually read the byelaws or NTMs?

Even in the Port of London, there's no requirement to carry a VHF on a boat below about 48ft.
IF you read the actual rules from the harbour websites etc, there are often alternatives,
I don't think anyone is suggesting using VHF for harbour control is a bad thing though?
VHF radios are cheap, but the world doesn't come to an end if yours goes flat or a seagull eats the aerial or whatever.

 

[Boathook]

As for the CG only using lat and long…….. having been on the receiving end of the red telephone for over 10 years, distance and bearing from a land mark is almost useless in certain parts of the coastline and given that most vessels now that are capable of responding and offering assistance have the numbers on the screen in front of them, it is not unreasonable to expect skippers capable of navigation to have a means of making note of and plotting a position. Years ago on paper charts, you might have been excused, but in this day and age, if you expect people to monitor ch16, you must hold your end of the bargain and be prepared and able to plot a position in whatever means it is given

I can hear Solent cg whilst at Weymouth when they are doing a call for Brighton.
If I know the general location well before they rattle of the lat and long I might have a chance at writing it down. My helm area doesn't have room for pen and paper to be always ready.
I appreciate that some names are generic such as mew stone for Devon and Cornwall but most headlands have different names, especially on the south coast.

 

[capnsensible]

It makes sense except that clearly communicating a long string of numbers over an unclear radio conversation or phone call can be difficult. A system like “what three words” would be much more likely to be communicated and understood clearly.

It's a long string of letters when you have to spell it phonetically.....

 

[capnsensible]

I agree, none of the means of passing a position is without risk of a miscommunication. I’ve ended up 120nm out when using a lat and long. So a combinations of different means in the same message might be a good idea

Or totally confusing to every other seafaring nation.....

Why not simply practice?

I suppose these days everyone wants a gadget to do it for them?

 

[mrming]

Or totally confusing to every other seafaring nation.....

Why not simply practice?

I suppose these days everyone wants a gadget to do it for them?

In my case it was the CG agent who couldn’t manage to take down the lat long reliably despite multiple attempts. So me practicing isn’t going to help. I know my phonetic alphabet etc.

 

[doug748]

I can hear Solent cg whilst at Weymouth when they are doing a call for Brighton.
If I know the general location well before they rattle of the lat and long I might have a chance at writing it down. My helm area doesn't have room for pen and paper to be always ready.

Yes, a short descriptor must focus attention and you do sometimes hear it. It surely helps mobilise people who are in a position to actually assist?

 

[st599]

Why are people writing down the Lat and Long? Can't you just look at it on the Chartplotter?

NMEA DSC and DSE sentences have been fired out of VHF radios for 20+ years. Even free Charplotters like OpenCPN will show you the exact reported location, type of urgency etc. Quite a few will even allow you to initiate a call with an AIS target by clicking on it.

 

[ylop]

Why are people writing down the Lat and Long? Can't you just look at it on the Chartplotter?

1. Not everyone has such technology

NMEA DSC and DSE sentences have been fired out of VHF radios for 20+ years.

2. But - only for DSC messages? My experience is most CG calls are not DSC messages - they are lat / lon read by the caller or related by CG following a call / 999 etc.

In my case it was the CG agent who couldn’t manage to take down the lat long reliably despite multiple attempts. So me practicing isn’t going to help. I know my phonetic alphabet etc.

Or, a professional who listens to location data every day struggled to understand the content and the person reading the numbers was not speaking slowly and clearly enough for the communication method? Most people I have heard make a distress call have been asked to repeat the location because it’s thrown out so quickly.

 

[mrming]

1. Not everyone has such technology


2. But - only for DSC messages? My experience is most CG calls are not DSC messages - they are lat / lon read by the caller or related by CG following a call / 999 etc.

Or, a professional who listens to location data every day struggled to understand the content and the person reading the numbers was not speaking slowly and clearly enough for the communication method? Most people I have heard make a distress call have been asked to repeat the location because it’s thrown out so quickly.

Given it was me on the phone with the CG, describing my location, to assist with locating a nearby kayaker, and I repeated myself slowly several times, I’d say it was the quality of the phone call. He soon looked me up on AIS and that solved the problem. See my earlier post about installing improved radio equipment this winter following this experience.