Hypothetical question

[Ohdrat]

Re: The question is irrelevant

oooo so Jimi's posted the question to test us mere mortals ...

so as a mere mortal my answer is:-

dunno but generally makes me v glad I have transome hung rudder.. very easy to check simplifies any necessary jury rigged rudder..

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[claymore]

Re: No matter what...........

Your pic - that will be the Superstition will it not?

<hr width=100% size=1>regards
Claymore
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[claymore]

Phone Mr McColl at Kilmelford, apologise and then ask if he could send Bruce and Ken doon wi a spare.

<hr width=100% size=1>regards
Claymore
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[Jeremy_W]

Or Gerry Rafferty:-

Clowns to the left of me
Jokers to the right
Here I am
Stuck in the middle with you!


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[Bejasus]

Re: No matter what...........

an here's me thinkin' tha' ah didnae need tae teach a lecherur like yersel' how tae recognize a bottle o' ra cratur when ye saw yin.

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[windandwave]

Why not practise for this eventuality next time you're on the water? Lash the tiller/wheel amidships & try steering with sails alone. Main in to luff up, jib in to bear away. Reef either or both as necessary until a balanced & stable course is reached. Most boats (depending on the rig) should manage enough control to at least get you out of trouble. Admittedly, the fact that the rudder is still in the water means that this exercise isn't fully realistic, but it should still indicate whether sailing by the sails alone is feasible. If not, you can try supplementing the sails with a drogue. Agree with others about the difficulty of fitting a jury rudder: unless well thought through in advance a makeshift rudder is going to present the problems of buoyancy & huge loads on the improvised tiller. I suspect that the jury rudder will be a supplement to steering by the sails rather than a subsitute.

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[jimi]

Think arranging the convenient F8 and consequent seastate is the problem! Agree that in moderate sea conditions and wind that steering by balancing the rig is possible. But in F8 do'nt think that is a realistic option.

<hr width=100% size=1>.. whit way roon should it be again ..

 

[MainlySteam]

Just goes to show the necessity of having an eclectic music collection on board, as has been discussed on another thread, for use in the case of severe trouble /forums/images/icons/smile.gif.

John

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[Gunfleet]

I think he needs a bucket as well to pull that one off.

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[Gunfleet]

As I remember sailing without a rudder is taught as part of Dinghy level 2 - but Jimi knew that

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[jimi]

dinghies different from yachts.. you can steer a dinghy by weight redistribution .. bit different in a yacht!

<hr width=100% size=1>.. whit way roon should it be again ..

 

[BrendanS]

Suggest then that if sailing in potential F8 conditions that you take Bigmart along. Weight redistribution then no longer a problem

(I await the ritual abuse at the Mercury forum meet)

<hr width=100% size=1>Utinam logica falsa tuam philisophiam totam suffodiant

 

[bigmart]

Re: I shall take steps

to ensure that I become Even Bigger Mart & step on the gunwhale of that dinghy you potter around in. Maybe I'll sink it maybe won't.

Martin

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[jimi]

Re: Funnily enough

understand that ..what you are saying is that you used the outboard as a tiller. However in a larger boat you don't have that option .. what would you d hen?

<hr width=100% size=1>.. got a spare rudder, mate?

 

[AndrewB]

Similar ... we carry a ladder with a wooden blade that can be lashed to it. Tested up to F6, heavy but workable.

It would be interesting to see how all those who plan to start thinking about a solution when they get in that situation make out. A tested workable jury rudder arrangement would seem quite an important safety precaution, as a mid-channel F8 is not the ideal conditions to start experimenting. But today's philosophy is different. As one S-butt contributer recently remarked, "an EPIRB is the most important piece of safety equipment to have aboard". Just press the big red button and let the authorities do the worrying.

 

[BrendanS]

Re: I shall take steps

Strewth, what with the scots sinking Iditarod with liquid and you turning it over, I stand no chance ---- I'm not going!

<hr width=100% size=1>Utinam logica falsa tuam philisophiam totam suffodiant

 

[Gunfleet]

Re: I shall take steps

We will sit on the gunwhale together Mart. Everyone else can look worried.
John

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[MainlySteam]

I think what those who have tried a solution, and claim it is successful for the circumstances you have asked about, may be omitting is if they have a vessel with the rudder separate from the keel (and to some extent even if it isn't) then they have in fact tried their experiment only with a rudder on the vessel.

I would strongly suspect that a boat will behave much differently, especially in a F8, with the missing rudder than it will in a trial with the rudder still there (albeit not being used for steering).

So, just to be a well practiced sailor, I am going to head out into the seas next storm and drop the rudder out of the bottom of the boat to get some practice and sort out a solution for the case it ever drops out accidently /forums/images/icons/smile.gif.

As an aside, how many have non transom hung rudder stocks made so that they cannot fall through the bottom of the boat if the tiller arm or quadrant comes loose?

John


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[Little_Russel]

Consider buying a boat where this was not possible.

<hr width=100% size=1>Sail the Se7en seas...

 

[bigmart]

Re: Sorry, No!

I didn't explain myself fully. You are right that a larger boat would have been more difficult but we didn't use the outboard. If we had the directional stability of the boat wold have been so bad that we would not have had enough fuel to get us home. Luckily the Fox Terrier has a transom hung rudder. We lashed a bunk board to the cage around the rudder. The rudder slides up & down in the cage, its a lifting keel design. Although the jury rudder was far from efficient, it was enough to get us home.

Martin

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