How to leave pontoon berth - specific conditions

[Sumara of Weymouth]

Always a bit hard to say when it's not your boat but I think I would do the following:
a) Rig a slip line travelling from a cleat or a winch near the helming position starboard aft going to a position on the gangway walkway mid-way between the two boats. The line will need to be as long as your boat plus the length of the boat alongside (doubled plus a bit). Use polypropylene so it floats and wont foul the prop. If you are worried about slipping a line so long, perhaps use a single polyester line with sinkers but that assumes you are returning to the same berth.
b) Undo all the other mooring lines.
c) Assuming there are two crew, have the crew walk the boat slowly down the pontoon, holding it close to, while the skipper has the helm held hard to starboard (to counter your propwash) and the engine in very slow reverse.
d) When the boat reaches near the end of the pontoon the crew gets on board. An agile crew might be able to do some jumping and assisting to swing the boat, but let's avoid that.
e) Apply a bit more reverse speed while letting the slip line gradually slide out.
f) Once the prow of the boat is well clear of the pontoon stop the rope from sliding anymore and motor moderately hard astern against the restraining line.
g) The prow should pivot and swing through the wind.
h) Once the prow is through the wind, haul in the slip line (or drop the sinking one) engage forward gear and gracefully sail away.
i) At all times keep that smile on your face, even if it all goes wrong. Most people will assume you meant to do whatever your long-keeler has decided to do and don't blame me if it all goes haywire.

 

[[70521]]

Duncan Well's book is full of good ideas.

Have you asked the marina for a more suitable berth.

The chap in the berth beside me with a long keeler built a bow thruster that he popped over the bow on leaving and entering the berth.

The pub might be the best option on those 'bad days'.

 

[dunedin]

Suggestions
- fit a bow thruster?
- if like using marinas don’t buy a long keeler (a boat designed for anchoring and mooring buoys)?
- go to the pub and depart when the weather has changed?
Even with a fin keel and a bow thruster, there are some berths and conditions where the answer is to wait, or get help with ropes

 

[steveeasy]

My last berth was narow and on a bend with strong tides, the boat was a long keeler with no steering going backwards. Id put her in reverse. then untie all the lines, and push her stearn out and at the last min jump aboard and pray. She would decide where she was going and id go with it. If she pointed in the right direction fine, if not id turn her round motoring forwards and backwards until she pointed in the right direction. Became quite amusing to watchers, which bothered me little as most never ventured out at all.
Never managed to master going astern but focused on mastering how to turn her on the spot enabling to correct the direction she was pointing. Did manage one attempt to get in to my berth going astern but took me half an hour at least.

Returning to my berth id always use a midship cleat and secure her with that. then tie her bow and stearn lines.

Steveeasy

 

[samfieldhouse]

Have you considered asking for a different berth?

Confidence in what your boat will and won’t do is a huge advantage in seamanship. As the skipper there is no shame pointing out this knowledge.

For context, my 70s, fin keel, 28ft-er pulls HARD to port in astern. This is great.
I specifically requested a finger berth with the exit between the two jetties to starboard in order that I can throw her in astern and she sucks herself out of the berth and immediately points the right direction.

A couple of times this summer, notably in Lymington and Cowes YH, I’ve refused berths on the basis that if i’m bow into a berth and the exit is to port, im not getting out again in an safe manner.

 

[penfold]

The only safe way, as I see it, would be to take a line from the other side of the alley and have the crew keep the tension on as you back out. The line could either be retrieved by someone on the other side, or released and thrown back to you, or perhaps even a double line used for self-retrieval.

Double lines never behave themselves consistently; sometimes they will slip easily, sometimes they hang up and leave me looking like a twit. Just park on a hammerhead to retrieve the line, rafted if it's a busy marina.

I agree that a line to the opposite pontoon is the only sure way of exiting, aim to secure it to a pontoon directly to windward. Slip your lines and while reversing at low power take the line in on a winch; once the bow is clear to swing throttle ahead briefly to check your way then smartly move the line to the bow and start pulling the boat around. It may be less stressful to use two lines, but watch for the aft line in the water.

 

[contessaman]

Have you got an amidships cleat?

A slip line from this to the last cleat on the end of the finger will enable you to pull up to windward and off the adjacent boat until the last possible minute.

A little confused by what you call prop wash but if you mean the stern kicks to starboard in reverse then this should help you reverse into the cul de sac and nose out west.

For what it's worth , I'm 38 foot and a long keel with cut away forefoot and separate skeg and rudder, or in other words far more bite on the water at the back than the front so I am all too familiar with the bow dropping off in the wind that you describe.

Ultimately, the boats we sail come from a different era to the marina's we berth in. A bit like parking a big modern SUV in a parking space made for a classic mini.

I sail almost always single handededly, and the solution to all this worry and lost sailing, some call it cheating , but I fitted a powerful bow thruster and it transformed things.

Ironically, knowing it's there if I need it, I go out much more, attempt the docking manoeuvres with out it and I've got much better at handling my boat without one.

Worth every penny buddy

 

[Stemar]

There were several occasions when I've looked at the tide, the wind and the other boats on the club pontoon, and decided we're going nowhere for a few hours on my old boat, not a long keeler, but still unpredictable going astern. Having a cat with twin engines has been a revelation!

 

[oldbloke]

If the marina is not too far from home, I would take advantage of times with little or no wind and tide to turn her round so that when you want to go out you can.

 

[Little Dorrit]

I have a long keel and faced with a similar scenario. Depending on the fetch and the availability of a downwind safety berth I would aim to go out boldly astern and expect to be able turn my bow to starboard with short sharp bursts of forward with the helm pushed almost fully to port, followed by a light touch of astern as required. Obviously with all available fenders on the starboard bow initially. The worst case scenario is that you can't swing the bow round but as long as there is another berth you can dive into I would try that.

 

[johnalison]

Double lines never behave themselves consistently; sometimes they will slip easily, sometimes they hang up and leave me looking like a twit. Just park on a hammerhead to retrieve the line, rafted if it's a busy marina.

I agree that double lines can be a problem, though not always. You could pull as best you can but be prepared to chuck the line ashore if it doesn't work out.

 

[westernman]

I agree that double lines can be a problem, though not always. You could pull as best you can but be prepared to chuck the line ashore if it doesn't work out.

I always found the 34 tonnes of boat pulling was enough to get it sorted.

 

[roaringgirl]

Have you got an amidships cleat?

A slip line from this to the last cleat on the end of the finger will enable you to pull up to windward and off the adjacent boat until the last possible minute.

A little confused by what you call prop wash but if you mean the stern kicks to starboard in reverse then this should help you reverse into the cul de sac and nose out west.

For what it's worth , I'm 38 foot and a long keel with cut away forefoot and separate skeg and rudder, or in other words far more bite on the water at the back than the front so I am all too familiar with the bow dropping off in the wind that you describe.

Ultimately, the boats we sail come from a different era to the marina's we berth in. A bit like parking a big modern SUV in a parking space made for a classic mini.

I sail almost always single handededly, and the solution to all this worry and lost sailing, some call it cheating , but I fitted a powerful bow thruster and it transformed things.

Ironically, knowing it's there if I need it, I go out much more, attempt the docking manoeuvres with out it and I've got much better at handling my boat without one.

Worth every penny buddy

Our underwater profile is exactly the same. When I bought the boat 8.5 years ago, a bow thruster was on the list of things to add. Having sailed half way around the world and entered and exited numerous new (to me) marinas all with their own quirks, prevailing winds and currents, I've taken it off the list. In fact I have seen more people run in to difficulties due to reliance on bow thrusters that fail at the least opportune moments than I have boats without bow thrusters cause damage entering or exiting tight spots.

I spent a lot of time playing an android 'game' called 'Dock Your Boat' which helped enormously with learning how to handle an unruly boat in tight situations.

 

[contessaman]

each to their own. i’ll take my bow thruster over a dock your boat video game thanks very much.

back to the origin poster I wouldn’t let people talk you out of any equipment that helps.

you could put hank on sails on the boat and remove the windlass too, and throw your chart plotter over the side that’s cheating as well.

any Gear that takes the stress out of sailing and gets me out sailing more in the first place is welcome aboard my ship

 

[roaringgirl]

A bow thruster isn't a zero-consequence option. It will increase the drag of the hull and require an upgrade of battery and wiring on-board, possibly even of power-generation too.

I'm not suggesting that people make things deliberately harder for themselves (ironically, isn't that sailing as opposed to motoring?!); I relaxed a lot about manoeuvring in marinas when I was experienced enough to be able to adapt to the situation when it didn't go the way I expected (it never does). I've frequently seen bow thrusters fail, leaving the helm lacking the skills to deal with the situation that had been planned around bow-thrusting. Had the bow thruster not been there, a more robust plan would have been made.

I genuinely had 'fit bow thruster' on my list when I bought the boat and I was surprised as it slipped down the list as I gained experience, and now it has fallen so far down that I think we're better off without, despite the challenges of manoeuvring our long-keeled ketch.

 

[westernman]

each to their own. i’ll take my bow thruster over a dock your boat video game thanks very much.

back to the origin poster I wouldn’t let people talk you out of any equipment that helps.

you could put hank on sails on the boat and remove the windlass too, and throw your chart plotter over the side that’s cheating as well.

any Gear that takes the stress out of sailing and gets me out sailing more in the first place is welcome aboard my ship

My jib is hanked on and it is very useful that it is hanked on. When lowering it does not fall over the side, like the jib does. Which is not hanked on.

 

[Rhylsailer99]

if there is 2 onboard, I would send the other person out in the dinghy with an outboard to manoeuvre the boat.

 

[Tranona]

A bow thruster isn't a zero-consequence option. It will increase the drag of the hull and require an upgrade of battery and wiring on-board, possibly even of power-generation too.

That is precisely why each individual has to weigh up the pros and cons based on their own individual circumstances. In my case I simply would not be able to sail the boats I would like to own without one. If one is unable to reliably get in and out of ones berth in a range of conditions then a boat is a static caravan eating up money. My last boat was a new Bavaria 33 and I was well into my 8th decade when I bought it so specified everything that a lifetime sailing suggested was useful for ease of sailing singlehanded and that of course included a bow thruster. Not always necessary nor used, but there when needed. Can't say I noticed any significant loss of performance, but if there was, so what? Not difficult to to provide the power for it if the electrics system was designed properly.

Change of tack now and Bavaria has been replaced by a boat with the same characteristics as the OP and others here. Could not have considered owning such a boat without a bow thruster. While the Bavaria turned well and steered well in reverse it had huge windage and the main use for thruster was keeping the bow under control in a crosswind and from blowing off the pontoon while getting lines on board, the new boat turns slowly and steers unreliably astern, but with a long deep keel and lowish freeboard does not get blown around so thruster is used mainly to make a tighter turn (I reverse into the berth) and get the boat straight for reversing.

Its great of you do a lot of sailing and have a reliable crew a you can work up your techniques to deal with all sorts of situations, but for people like me who want to be able to sail without relying on anybody else you look for anything that makes things easier, or indeed makes owning a boat possible.

 

[zoidberg]

The late John Goode had all the answers, and they're all in here......

You won't need me to tell you why I didn't simply scan the relevant page.....

 

[Poignard]

The late John Goode had all the answers, and they're all in here......

You won't need me to tell you why I didn't simply scan the relevant page.....

Excellent series of booklets.