Wansworth
Well-known member
Looking at a Puma 32 which apparently has a sandwich deck and reports indicate there could be delamination in the type of deck,any pointers,thanks
How to investigate a sandwich deck for delamination
- Thread starter Wansworth
- Start date
Fr J Hackett
Well-known member
Soft spots, look around any deck fittings and chainplates for water ingress, you may be able to detect it by sound difference when tapping with a small hammer. However if it's extensive then you should see deflection as you walk across the deck.
LittleSister
Well-known member
I'd add to Fr. Hackett's advice listen out for creaking as you walk around the deck, coachroof, etc..
Zillions of boats have laminated decks. Most of them are fine. Quite a few have minor delamination that you can live with. A few have extensive delamination, and are (for your purposes) best passed over and look for something else - repair is simple in principle, but very messy and time consuming in practice.
The main issue to avoid, as far as I'm aware, is not so much simple delamination, but boats with balsa cores to the laminate, where water ingress (usually the result of improper methods of 'through-deck' bolts/fittings) has resulted in the balsa rotting, leaving two layers of GRP with little between them.
Zillions of boats have laminated decks. Most of them are fine. Quite a few have minor delamination that you can live with. A few have extensive delamination, and are (for your purposes) best passed over and look for something else - repair is simple in principle, but very messy and time consuming in practice.
The main issue to avoid, as far as I'm aware, is not so much simple delamination, but boats with balsa cores to the laminate, where water ingress (usually the result of improper methods of 'through-deck' bolts/fittings) has resulted in the balsa rotting, leaving two layers of GRP with little between them.
Wansworth
Well-known member
Yes,thanks……saw this Puma32 in Ferrol and checked up on a Spanish forum ….yes the class can have deckproblems..so no rush to visit Ferrol
LittleSister
Well-known member
Any boat with a laminated deck (and that's quite likely most of the ones you have been looking at) can have deck problems. Few do, so I don't think it's a reason to not go and look at a boat. (Later boats tend to have plastic foam cores, which aren't immune to water ingress, but don't rot away, though you can get separation and and hence movement between core and outer layers.)
It may be that class has a particular problem, but I doubt it. More likely, I suspect, one has had extensive problems that have been illustrated online/book/magazine, so people have gained an impression it is something that that class is prone to, rather than something that can, but probably won't, happen to any boat with that construction.
The problem is typically that (in older boats especially) the original builders, or subsequent owners' modifications, did not properly install through deck fittings to suit the laminated construction, and eventually normal (or abnormal) movement or the deterioration of the sealant has enabled water to enter between the laminate.
The proper way to install fittings through such decks is to drill a slightly oversized hole, clear away the core for maybe 1/2" all round beyond the hole, fill with filled epoxy such that it seals internally against the upper and lower GRP laminates, then once set drill the correct sized hole through the epoxy and insert the bolt/fitting, using sealant as you would expect. (Books and internet vids show in more detail how to do this.) In this way any leak of water will pass through to inside the boat, where it will be spotted and dealt with promptly, instead of spending years seeping into the core of the laminate, where it will not be noticed until it is too late and has become a major challenge to remedy.
It may be that class has a particular problem, but I doubt it. More likely, I suspect, one has had extensive problems that have been illustrated online/book/magazine, so people have gained an impression it is something that that class is prone to, rather than something that can, but probably won't, happen to any boat with that construction.
The problem is typically that (in older boats especially) the original builders, or subsequent owners' modifications, did not properly install through deck fittings to suit the laminated construction, and eventually normal (or abnormal) movement or the deterioration of the sealant has enabled water to enter between the laminate.
The proper way to install fittings through such decks is to drill a slightly oversized hole, clear away the core for maybe 1/2" all round beyond the hole, fill with filled epoxy such that it seals internally against the upper and lower GRP laminates, then once set drill the correct sized hole through the epoxy and insert the bolt/fitting, using sealant as you would expect. (Books and internet vids show in more detail how to do this.) In this way any leak of water will pass through to inside the boat, where it will be spotted and dealt with promptly, instead of spending years seeping into the core of the laminate, where it will not be noticed until it is too late and has become a major challenge to remedy.
Barton Seagoon
Member
When we bought our boat last year, the broker told us before we viewed it that the roof was soft, due to the balsa core getting wet and rotting away. The area affected was between the hatch garage and the mast base (thankfully the actual mast base is sound and unaffected). Because of that, we got the boat at a very reduced price, and we have booked in a repair this autumn - the boat is fully safe for us to sail on this summer while we wait for the repair date. We considered options for cutting through the upper layer of GRP (the surface that you stand on) or the lower layer (hidden above the ceiling boards) and have settled on the upper layer since that makes the repair easier to do. Our guy is going to cut away a large section, fill with new structural foam core, then re-lay the upper layer and bond it to the remaining original. When he cut into the top surface to inspect the core, it was very soggy indeed. I will update again on the work when it is in progress, for the edification of anyone interested.
My advice would be to make an offer that feels stupidly below the asking price, as the seller may well accept it. If you can get the right price, then you can afford a professional repair.
My advice would be to make an offer that feels stupidly below the asking price, as the seller may well accept it. If you can get the right price, then you can afford a professional repair.
LittleSister
Well-known member
That might suit some, but my advice to Wansworth in particular is to avoid a boat needing such significant work. (They all need some work.) He's put off going sailing again too long as it is and, comfortable as his sofa may be, it puts him in the way of Mrs. W. tasking him with domestic DIY. He has 'projects' enough to be getting on with. He needs to get out and on the water. Nice as it may be to have a valance to hide the pipework under the sink, or be responsible for giving a boat with some significant defect a new lease of life, it's not life enhancing in the way that wafting about a ria, or just sitting in the cockpit watching the world go by, can be. That doesn't require the perfect boat, but I'd suggest it is most likely to be achieved by a boat that's more or less up together.
I feel I can speak with some authority, as one who's own boat is ashore demanding significant boat maintenance drudgery, rather than skipping over the waves in the sunshine.
Wansworth
Well-known member
Thanks,good info
Wansworth
Well-known member
Wise words…….oh that I could live with a spongy deck
bill bligh
Active member
One way is to walk all over the superstructure on the balls of your feet bouncing up and down, not jumping. If you hear any squeaking or feel excessive / see movement, that is a possible sign of a wet core and need further investigation.
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