How much of an operation is it to get the mast up and down on the average 20 foot or so sailing boat?

Daydream believer said:
Safe? It might be safe in coastal waters near home in F4 but ????? :unsure:
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I find it interesting that the size criteria for boats has increased steadily over the years for activities ...

I can remember Silhouettes / Jaguars / Alacrity's etc. going cross channel ..... now if anyone mentions such a boat - people look at you as though you want to commit suicide !!

Years ago - a very famous boater ... one regarded as an expert and guru of boating actually used to sail a Wayfarer across channel with Scouts !!

I was with my Father in the Round Isle of Wight Race with his Snapdragon 23 Lift Keel ..... watching Caprice / Silhouettes in the race as well as a CLASS !! Now I understand that there is a minimum boat size of over 25ft ??

Friends sailed Seanaster 23 ... Snapdragon 21 .... 24 .... Pageants .... to Channel Isles ... even across N.Sea .....

My 25ftr cruises Baltic ....... here's one cruise I did :

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As regards the Mirror Offshore .... it got its Offshore term because it was capable .... have you watched Keep Turning Left ??
 
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Re #4, Refueler has a point, in our early cruising days we used to regularly sail Christchurch to Cherbourg and later on sailed a Foxterrier 22 around Brittany and the Channel Islands, our dream then was a boat of about 25/26’, now no one seems to think less than 29’ is safe to do any passage making.
 
I think someone sailed a custom built junk rig Mirror Offshore round the world, or at least across several oceans. But it was very heavily modified.
 
Gixer said:
Once again sold but a Mirror Offshore might be an option. Inboard engine and stubby little mast.
Mirror Offshore MK1 Sturdy And Honest For Sale, 5.75m, unknown year
A guy had one next to me when I had my Nimrod and it took to the ground well. He said he took it to the channel islands and back one summer.
My Nimrod would run rings around it but the mirror was a solid safe boat.
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Yes, like the Hunter, easy take down singlehanded. If trying a pole, the trick is to steady it with lines forward and hitched to the pivot point. Used to do this with a high aspect, fractional 26 footer but I would say this is the limit.
Though I suspect in this thread we may be talking to ourselves.. ?

.
 
Praxinoscope said:
Re #4, Refueler has a point, in our early cruising days we used to regularly sail Christchurch to Cherbourg and later on sailed a Foxterrier 22 around Brittany and the Channel Islands, our dream then was a boat of about 25/26’, now no one seems to think less than 29’ is safe to do any passage making.
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I remember at Fareham Sailing and Motor Boat Club ..... there was a party organised because a member had bought a Centaur ... all shiny new !! It was put alongside the old army pontoon we had and people invited to look her over ... while a BBQ was held ......

In those days 26ft was a reasonable sized boat and many clubs in fact had that as a max ......
 
Ahoy might mention that here on the EXE we have a safe Harbour that a realboon for Boaters wanting to lay up afloat (or dried out) , its relatively a safe Drying Harbour , but there is a Rail Bridge running accross the entrance (Mr Brunnel I recon ?) so motor boats can access quite easily , even big craft ; what is not perhaps apparent is that the entrance channel is tidal , so at low water Harbour Time , the clearance height under the Rail Bridge is usually enough for Large Motor Boats and Sailing Boats with their mast lowered ; The annual Harbour cost which is Club Membertship , is really peanuts compared with paying for a lift out or winter storage ashore , plus the Insurance Compans like it .

So from personal experience this Harbour can be a godsend to enable Boating on the cheap side

The Flat Mud exposed at drying out is ok to beach a boat without a keel , for the lowering of a mast etc ; also boats of the smaller size , around 4 to 5 m loa do not appear to have any real issues ; suppose though the A frame will really help in lowring and raising any mast
 
MisterBaxter said:
I think someone sailed a custom built junk rig Mirror Offshore round the world, or at least across several oceans. But it was very heavily modified.
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Just checked this and I wasn't quite right - he crossed the Atlantic in a Mirror Offshore then built a custom junk rig boat on a 19'6" Colvic hull and sailed it round the world.
 
Sounds like you are thinking of Cockwood on the river Exe.

Yes, it is used by small boats which can get under the railway line but clearance is poor.

The river Exe has the cheapest moorings on the south coast and it's for a reason. It's exposed from the East, it has many mudbanks and a strong tidal flow - it's not really a river for a beginners....... Just getting to the boat in a dinghy can be dangerous and entering and leaving the river against the tide can be nearly impossible - best part of 7 knots on spring tide floods.

You would be best advised, as others have suggested to delay getting "a boat of your own", join a local club (Topsham, Starcross) and get out on other folks boats for experience.

I've been sailing on the Exe for 60 years, on and off, so I have some local knowledge.
 
NingNong247 said:
I'm currently looking for my first small sailing boat. Everything I'm looking at is between 19 and 22 foot. Different models. First I need to get a mooring, and the cheapest one I've found is incredibly cheap, but has an extremely low bridge to get under. Low as in you need to duck below the cabin top. You need to take your mast off before going in.

There isn't a pontoon I can tie up at - I'd have to take the mast down while at anchor or at least on a visitor mooring (at 20 quid a day). Assuming I wait for conditions, Is that realistic? Is that easy enough on a boat this size that I can do it at the beginning and end of a days sailing? If not that easy, is it still easy enough that I would do it at the beginning and the end of the season?

If not even that realistic, how sensible/legal is it to put it on a sandbank, wait for the tide to go out, and do it in a pair wellies?

Any help appreciated.
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Not sure where the boat is kept in the sailing season but there are of course boats designed perhaps for trailer sailing that don't have long high aspect masts such as the Sun 2k ( incidentally there is a hoisting kit ) and which if not daily could easily be stripped down for a winter journey when if not left ashore the rig could be laid low extending over the gunwhales. People overcome all sorts of difficulties in order to get afloat and we are all different.Suggest that having narrowed down candidate boats you have a trial sail in one via this forum or a club in order to check all the issues .

Yes firm sandbanks can be very useful in calm conditions .
 
Gixer said:
If we are talking to ourselves :)

I miss my 23f Snapdragon, things were much simpler in those days......
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There was an article in YM years ago about "Small Boats Go Further" ............... author spent time going round clubs and marinas asking about how often owners took their boats out ... where did they go ... how far / how long etc.

The 19 to 26ft 'rs put all to shame as they were out so often .... the trips often further than larger boats ...

Some of the large boats had literally become floating Cocktail Cockpits hardly ever leaving berth.

My Snap 23 ... it was usual for me to go for 2 - 3 even 4 days at a time .... cruised all Solent AND round as far as Brighton. I only sold and bought the SR25 as I wanted to have standing headroom .....
 
An anecdote to highlight the potential dangers of lowering a mast.

More than 60 years ago, my Dad bought a converted wooden lifeboat with a gaff cutter rig. The mast was in a tabernacle, and being a gaff rig, was relatively short. However, it was quite a substantial wooden mast. Mum and Dad set out to lower it. Dad undid the forestay and started to lower the mast down while Mum was in the cockpit waiting to guide it into the crutches waiting to receive it. My brother and I were supposed to be helping by watching the shrouds to keep it straight, but I doubt we were actually much use - I was about 9! No doubt everyone experienced will be able to see what happened - as the mast was lowered, the forestay became more nearly parallel to the mast, and Dad could no longer hold it. The mast fell from about 45° and fortunately landed in the crutches! Mum, by a miracle, wasn't hit by the mast, but she got some nasty scrapes where the standing rigging (galvanized wire!) had caught her. Dad then had an A-frame made that doubled as a pulpit for mast lowering and raising operations after that!

Obviously, we learnt lessons from that - and were very fortunate that no one was injured or even killed, and that the mast survived the ordeal - I doubt that an alloy mast would have. (the mast, in keeping with everything else on the boat, was VERY solidly built). Also, we were tied up alongside a jetty in a drainage canal (South Ferriby) , so the water was dead flat. The boat was very stable.

With that memory, I wouldn't consider lowering a mast on a light boat unless she was either ashore or safely moored alongside in a sheltered harbour or marina. I'd also want to be sure that there was a proper A-frame, and if it was to be done regularly the mast should be in a tabernacle (not simply stepped on deck, as most modern yachts are).
 
The change to 'Blade mast step' is in my mind bad. I have such blade step and it snapped last year .....

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Now repaired ...

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If it had been the older Tabernacle - that would not have happened.

The mast fell from about 30deg from horizontal onto the pushpit ... I've checked the luff groove and all seems OK .... (due to spine injury - I could not go sailing 2022 to confirm) ..... but it certainly 'woke me up' !!
 
While lowering a tabernacle mounted mast with an A frame the mast will stay on the centre line if the cap shrouds have chain plates constructed so that the shrouds will pivot on the same axis as the mast pivot. This modification removes a lot of the problems mentioned above as the shrouds and spreaders will support the mast laterally all the way down (and back up) making mast lowering a practical possibility with the boat afloat.
As others have pointed out lowering the mast without lateral support all the way down can be fraught with difficulties due to wind and movement of the boat.
 
srm said:
While lowering a tabernacle mounted mast with an A frame the mast will stay on the centre line if the cap shrouds have chain plates constructed so that the shrouds will pivot on the same axis as the mast pivot. This modification removes a lot of the problems mentioned above as the shrouds and spreaders will support the mast laterally all the way down (and back up) making mast lowering a practical possibility with the boat afloat.
As others have pointed out lowering the mast without lateral support all the way down can be fraught with difficulties due to wind and movement of the boat.
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One person who stays in position guiding mast is sufficient ... even with large heavy masts .... the problem comes as I showed in my video when guy decides to 'reposition' ....
The amount of 'force' needed by that person guiding is very light in fact ... and they should stay where they are through whole operation.

I do not have stays / shrouds or preventers - but I can do the job single handed if boat is steady. I am asking on another thread about adding extra stay's points level with mast pivot - but that's because I don't always do the job in calm waters or have an extra guy to help.
 
Me and a few friends dropped and raised my aluminium mast on my kestrel 22. We used a long ladder at the front held by two guys, and we lowered the mast down forward onto the ladder with a winch if this makes sense. On ours we had a tabernacle and the bolt needed to be taken out of the foot of the mast, this is where you have to be careful as it can become unwieldy.
Getting it back up was the reverse, it helped having some strong guys around.
This was around 35 years ago when we were fit?
 
Boaters on places like the Norfolk Broads shoot bridges all the time in sailing boats, some of them much larger than 20’. The well practiced and prepared can do it short handed and without stopping. So is it possible?. Yes very. But your choice of boat will revolve around the simplicity of lowering and raising the mast. Then you have to practice it.
If it is a winter, off season mooring, do you have parking space for a trailer?
 
The OP reported looking at several different boats. Some trailerable boats are built to have the mast raised or lowered on each sail, while others are more difficult and are really meant to have the boat rigged and the mast stepped and unstepped once per year. The former may have the mast raised and lowered single handedly in some cases, no A-frame required. However, if the boat is on a trailer, there are better options than a mud drying mooring for the whole winter; there may be hard standing for the yacht and trailer in a yard nearby, for example.

There are a few examples up to 20ft, though often less, of trailerable dinghy/yachts that maybe a good starting base, with dingy cruising with a boom tent an attractive option for many.

My old Character Boats Whammel at 17ft was such though my new Bayraider Expedition would likely be on the expensive side for the OP
 
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