How much of an operation is it to get the mast up and down on the average 20 foot or so sailing boat?

[Praxinoscope]

Have you raised the boom ... seems to be very high ???

No this was I think standard, thé previous owner replaced the mast after hitting a bridge with the original, it had the advantage that one rarely got clobbered by it.
I recently let another Invicta owner have an old main that I had lying around and it fitted perfectly so would guess that the high boom was normal.

 

[Capt Popeye]

Sounds like you are thinking of Cockwood on the river Exe.

Yes, it is used by small boats which can get under the railway line but clearance is poor.

The river Exe has the cheapest moorings on the south coast and it's for a reason. It's exposed from the East, it has many mudbanks and a strong tidal flow - it's not really a river for a beginners....... Just getting to the boat in a dinghy can be dangerous and entering and leaving the river against the tide can be nearly impossible - best part of 7 knots on spring tide floods.

You would be best advised, as others have suggested to delay getting "a boat of your own", join a local club (Topsham, Starcross) and get out on other folks boats for experience.

I've been sailing on the Exe for 60 years, on and off, so I have some local knowledge.

Hi edsailing , well duno how much you know about Cockwood Harbour , as you state that clearance is poor , well as I understand it , when Brunel built the railway right accross the Cockwood Harbour , the harbour was a working one , where sailing boats unloaded cargo /supplies for the Castle , plus loaded up with Agricultural supplies etc from local Farms , AS I researched it , after the Railway Line prevented large Barges and Boats from entering the Harbour such Boats used to moor up outside the harbour , on the nearly flat Mud Banks , then the cargo would be transported into the harbour by Horse n Cart (or similar) , passing under the Railway Line at either of the two Bridges ; so them bridges are when the tide goes out quite large enough to take a standing person , or a horse and cart through them ; if /when aking a boat into the Harbour after allowing for boats draft etc whats left is for a boat to float into the Harbour ; boats entering the Harbour arrive at first flood then gradually float into the Harbour ; so might suggest that Cockwood Harbour is able to accomodate much lar ger boats than first tought of , but , these boats must be ready to enter on the first flood

 

[William_H]

Hi William H
Just noticed you are obviously from WA.
I was until about 22 years ago and sailed there for 30 years commencing in the later 1960’s and through probably the heyday of trailer sailers.
I also crewed briefly on some of the big name WA yachts as a foredeck hand.
I wonder if we ran into each other or have mutual friends/contacts?
I sailed out of Nedlands, South of Perth, Royal Freshwater Bay and occasionally Royal Perth and Royal Flying Squadron.
We obviously had some of the same multiple Rottnest crossing Freo bridges experiences!

Yes quite so however I have for 39years been a member of East Fremantle YC it being close to home. Very few sorties to other clubs. Once Parmelia Night race out of PFC and once Diggers cup out of Royal Perth YC. The first in 19 85 or so we won so never returned due to handicap. The latter came last out of 100 boats due to handicap (persuit start) So no probably never met. I did do a little bit of KB instructing at South of Perth YC but that went bad with introduction of Bakewell White 8 racing baots for teaching perhaps 10 years ago. Mostly just stuck to my friends at EFYC. They made me a Life Member about 8 years ago so now no escape. Yes very familiar with mast lowering to escape river. Can't be bothered these days. Perhaps mainly because of mast lowering but need to carry an outboard motor. Left at home for last 8 years or so and even before that seldom used.

Re comments about OP living/working on 20ft boat . If he is young and alone I think it might be OK for a while. Not for us oldies but young are different especially if alternatives are difficult. ol'will

 

[Alfie168]

I raise and lower single handed on my Dehler 22. There are an additional pair of shrouds that stabilise the mast as it raises/lowers and you use a gin pole clipped to mast and forestay/roller reefing. You attach the rope to roller reefing unit and the rope passes through forestay fitting on hull and emerges through the open anchor locker then back to a winch.

The difficult bit is starting off..either lowering or raising. In theory it's a controlled lift or lower, but it can get away from you if you are not very diligent and then it's not nice. I'm not exactly frightened doing it, but I am very wary during this operation and I have taken to wearing a hard hat....simply as I've got one.

 

[[70521]]

One of these would solve all your worries:

View attachment 149009
Hunter Minstrel 23

Sadly probably now sold and out of price range anyway.

Oh I know that boat. I think it is still for sale. I'll double check when I am down on Thursday.

 

[Refueler]

I raise and lower single handed on my Dehler 22. There are an additional pair of shrouds that stabilise the mast as it raises/lowers and you use a gin pole clipped to mast and forestay/roller reefing. You attach the rope to roller reefing unit and the rope passes through forestay fitting on hull and emerges through the open anchor locker then back to a winch.

The difficult bit is starting off..either lowering or raising. In theory it's a controlled lift or lower, but it can get away from you if you are not very diligent and then it's not nice. I'm not exactly frightened doing it, but I am very wary during this operation and I have taken to wearing a hard hat....simply as I've got one.

I tried a single 'gyn pole' .... but as the mast lowered the pole decided to swing to the side despite the fwd led control line. Its main reason I then went for A Frame ...

All I need now is to sort the temp stays to be same height as mast pivot.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I tried a single 'gyn pole' .... but as the mast lowered the pole decided to swing to the side despite the fwd led control line. Its main reason I then went for A Frame ...

All I need now is to sort the temp stays to be same height as mast pivot.

The pole needs guys to the side too, that’s how Dragonfly do it. Maintaining tension is an issue if the pole does not fix at the mast foit of course.

 

[Refueler]

The pole needs guys to the side too, that’s how Dragonfly do it. Maintaining tension is an issue if the pole does not fix at the mast foit of course.

Far easier to have A frame .....

My pole was clipped to the spinnaker pole fitting. Spinnaker halyard from mast head. Mainsail sheet tackle from anchor winch to pole.
Luckily I had two guys with me who caught the mast ...

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Far easier to have A frame .....

My pole was clipped to the spinnaker pole fitting. Spinnaker halyard from mast head. Mainsail sheet tackle from anchor winch to pole.
Luckily I had two guys with me who caught the mast ...

Doing it with solid is clearly better, except for lugging the now pointless gear around with you. The good ship Super Anne might not notice the weight, we would. The boom is our mast raising strut.

 

[Refueler]

Doing it with solid is clearly better, except for lugging the now pointless gear around with you. The good ship Super Anne might not notice the weight, we would. The boom is our mast raising strut.

The gear I have ?

Two metal poles with wood 'feet' to avoid marking the deck. The 'feet' have long coach bolts through that pass through the U stay fixings to keep in position. Light wood battens in an X as aft crutch lashed to pushpit.

Here you can see that its not possible to use the forestay connected to a frame ..... pity as it means having to take care to handle the furler / stay as mast lowers / raises.

Mainsheet tackle in place before setting a frame as low as possible

A frame lowered ..

This was my original idea with my 'handy billy' but then found Mainsheet tackle better with its jamming cleat etc.

Rest of gear is what is already on boat - mainsail sheet tackle ... spinnaker halyard ... anchor winch. Usual is for me to use the system to lower mast ..... carry all gear - it sits OK on side deck when uncoupled and moved aft ... pass the bridges ... stop at Town Quay .. raise mast ... pass all gear to my 'Gardener' who has my van to take gear back home.
When I return - reverse procedure.

My need to add side steadys to mast - is because Town Quay is opposite working ships and tugboats etc. ply back and forth.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

That looks a good working setup. Our boat is very different, our mast is 13 metres long, but the factory, as it’s theoretically a trailer sailer, have designed a system for self raising. It uses gear from the boat’s sailing setup entirely, and is, unl8ke sime trailer boats, independent of the car and trailer. You use a genoa winch, it’s a little nervy obviously, but it works. If you’re sufficiently interested it’s all on youtube, but it’s not necessarily relevant to the thread to have the exact method. suffice to say it’s possible using the boat gear only. But an A frame has got to be easier if you’ve got the capacity to carry one, and the need to regularly raise and lower the mast.

 

[andsarkit]

The river Exe has the cheapest moorings on the south coast and it's for a reason. It's exposed from the East, it has many mudbanks and a strong tidal flow - it's not really a river for a beginners....... Just getting to the boat in a dinghy can be dangerous and entering and leaving the river against the tide can be nearly impossible - best part of 7 knots on spring tide floods.

You would be best advised, as others have suggested to delay getting "a boat of your own", join a local club (Topsham, Starcross) and get out on other folks boats for experience.

I've been sailing on the Exe for 60 years, on and off, so I have some local knowledge.

I had a mooring off Starcross for 12 years and had 3 years sailing dinghies from Starcross taking out dozens of beginners. In many ways it is ideal for learning because it is fairly open with steady winds and has no rocks to hit. You will quickly learn a lot about tides and how to work with them and about going aground and the delights of smelly mud. If the embarassment of sitting on a sandbar doesn't put you off you will soon become a better sailer.
I have stayed afloat over winter but it is very exposed and I doubt the insurance company would now cover the risk.

 

[Alfie168]

I tried a single 'gyn pole' .... but as the mast lowered the pole decided to swing to the side despite the fwd led control line. Its main reason I then went for A Frame ...

All I need now is to sort the temp stays to be same height as mast pivot.

The system is Dehlers own system and the stability provided by the additions shrouds is effectively an A frame geometrically. When I first bought the boat I was told it had the " Dehler mast raising system ". Well to cut it short...it didn't and after various adventures in mast lowering I checked in Germany and found I could still get the optional kit..at a price...so I bought and fitted the kit and it has made all the difference and the gin pole has.....to date...behaved itself since. I used a Compass mast crane derrick in A frame format previously, and sold that to a yacht club who needed one. The purpose made system is far easier and elegant...if that's the right word.

 

[coveman]

The system is Dehlers own system and the stability provided by the additions shrouds is effectively an A frame geometrically. When I first bought the boat I was told it had the " Dehler mast raising system ". Well to cut it short...it didn't and after various adventures in mast lowering I checked in Germany and found I could still get the optional kit..at a price...so I bought and fitted the kit and it has made all the difference and the gin pole has.....to date...behaved itself since. I used a Compass mast crane derrick in A frame format previously, and sold that to a yacht club who needed one. The purpose made system is far easier and elegant...if that's the right word.

Sounds a similar system to that used on Etaps - the additional "dummy" shrouds mean there is is little lateral movement of the mast when raising and lowering and it can be done in a controlled manner.

 

[Refueler]

The system is Dehlers own system and the stability provided by the additions shrouds is effectively an A frame geometrically. When I first bought the boat I was told it had the " Dehler mast raising system ". Well to cut it short...it didn't and after various adventures in mast lowering I checked in Germany and found I could still get the optional kit..at a price...so I bought and fitted the kit and it has made all the difference and the gin pole has.....to date...behaved itself since. I used a Compass mast crane derrick in A frame format previously, and sold that to a yacht club who needed one. The purpose made system is far easier and elegant...if that's the right word.

The Compass24 alloy pole vertical lift system - I tried to buy years ago - but they refused to ship to Latvia, Its ok - but relies on all being vertical lift and then rotate mast - which I am sure you found out. Its load bearing is limited and with my mast is actually at max or just over the specs.
I would not like to let that system get away from vertical ..... the allow tubes are not man enough I reckon.

The Dehler system I know ... I am CA rep here and one guy in particular had it and used for his layup here..... I looked after his boat gear till new season.

 

[Grith]

The secret is permanently affixed a frame that unobtrusively remains in place and a pair of side stays that line up with the mast base maintaining sideways tension keeping the mast straight. Combine this with an inbuilt multi purchase block system built into the apex of the a frame and the bow and a line running back from this to a cabin mounted sheet winch and my slight then teenage daughter could raise and lower my reasonably heavy 30 foot mast singlehanded including both pre launching and whilst underway.
So many people hate trailer sailers because of the mast rigging nightmare but it doesn’t have to be that way.

 

[Alfie168]

The Compass24 alloy pole vertical lift system - I tried to buy years ago - but they refused to ship to Latvia, Its ok - but relies on all being vertical lift and then rotate mast - which I am sure you found out. Its load bearing is limited and with my mast is actually at max or just over the specs.
I would not like to let that system get away from vertical ..... the allow tubes are not man enough I reckon.

The Dehler system I know ... I am CA rep here and one guy in particular had it and used for his layup here..... I looked after his boat gear till new season.

I didn't use the Compass crane in lifting mode ever. I just used it as an A frame with the feet either side of the mast tied onto stanchions to stop them sliding away.

 

[Refueler]

I didn't use the Compass crane in lifting mode ever. I just used it as an A frame with the feet either side of the mast tied onto stanchions to stop them sliding away.

Blimey !! What weight was your mast ?? When I spoke to Compass and said my mast was similar to a Centaur - they were adamant that it had to be vertical to avoid poles buckling ...

Given my poles were 'free' from local sport hall .... I'm glad !!

 

[Alfie168]

Blimey !! What weight was your mast ?? When I spoke to Compass and said my mast was similar to a Centaur - they were adamant that it had to be vertical to avoid poles buckling ...

Given my poles were 'free' from local sport hall .... I'm glad !!

They were an awful lot meatier than the gin/whisker pole currently used which is part of the official kit. I've never had a problem with either on a 7m high alloy mast.

 

[Refueler]

They were an awful lot meatier than the gin/whisker pole currently used which is part of the official kit. I've never had a problem with either on a 7m high alloy mast.

7m ... ok - that's less than mine( 8.2m) ... and I know mine is a heavier extrusion than most in that size.

The way Compass24 show it in their old catalogue ... raising mast vertical and then rotating horizontal would suit me nicely actually ... as my A Frame is too short to do that and I need to be able to single hand lift and move mast along boat for storage.
Only way I can do with existing - is to reposition A frame to lift mast in a bridle ... basically a PITA !!

I keep turning over ideas in mind to solve this .....