How much of an operation is it to get the mast up and down on the average 20 foot or so sailing boat?

Why would you pay a solicitor and not you know , listen?
Advice here is given freely and at some effort actually.
And some of it is priceless , hard earnt too.
Please pop back after you’ve racked up a few adventures and review whether everyone here really really was trying to help you , after all .
Everything is do-able in the end
 
PaulRainbow said:
I work on boats for a living.

I live on a boat full time and have done so for several years.

I have bank accounts, contract SIM and all of the other things you'd need.

But i guess you won't want to take any advice.............
Click to expand...


Yeah, I'm afraid I just find you too impressive. It's intimidating. You should feel validated.
 
Blueboatman said:
Why would you pay a solicitor and not you know , listen?
Advice here is given freely and at some effort actually.
And some of it is priceless , hard earnt too.
Please pop back after you’ve racked up a few adventures and review whether everyone here really really was trying to help you , after all .
Everything is do-able in the end
Click to expand...

Most people are trying to help. Others are playing status games.
 
NingNong247 said:
Right, so it's just a general "haha, I know more than you". Cool. Enjoy the superiority.


What tipped you off, all the times I asked beginner questions, or the times I explained that I'm beginner? My fault for not being born with full knowledge, I guess. I apologise.


I'm not interested in your suggestions because of the snarky piss taking, but I'm sure you'll make your suggestions anyway.
Click to expand...
A lot of very experienced people have tried to give you sensible and useful advice.

If you respond by insulting them in this way you are probably not going to get people trying to help in future

Your call, but you are cutting yourself off from one of the best sources of genuine experience in the UK

Out (PS That is a VHF radio term)
 
dunedin said:
A lot of very experienced people have tried to give you sensible and useful advice.

If you respond by insulting them in this way you are probably not going to get people trying to help in future

Your call, but you are cutting yourself off from one of the best sources of genuine experience in the UK

Out (PS That is a VHF radio term)
Click to expand...

I'm fine with and expressly grateful for sensible and useful advice, and have given no indication I haven't taken it onboard, or even that asking questions on forums is the only thing I am doing or will do. I'm even fine with people straying off topic and deciding to go on small rants at me that their assumption about the whole way I'm doing everything is wrong and I should do it exactly their way, rather than focusing on the narrow question I've asked.

I'm also fine with insulting people who insulted me. That's something I'm intensely okay with, even if it means they could have helped me but won't. Glad of the outcome, in fact.
 
NingNong247 said:
So where do you do all this, on land?
Click to expand...
Of course. I have a launching trailer, as well as a road trailer. I am a club member where I learned how to do these things with help from others. I found that the best way to do things. They also have the gear to swop the boat from one trailer to the other. On windy days I can just ask for assistance. Same with launching & recovery. It is a club thing & there is no substitute for a club membership. They showed me how to moor it & how to sail it. I now lay all the moorings & supply all the tackle for the others & have done for the last 14 +years. Many now come to me for that advice that I have been given over 60 years of membership
It evolves from being a member. So when others advise membership of a club, one should really consider that advice
 
Last edited:
NingNong247 said:
I'm currently looking for my first small sailing boat. Everything I'm looking at is between 19 and 22 foot. Different models. First I need to get a mooring, and the cheapest one I've found is incredibly cheap, but has an extremely low bridge to get under. Low as in you need to duck below the cabin top. You need to take your mast off before going in.

There isn't a pontoon I can tie up at - I'd have to take the mast down while at anchor or at least on a visitor mooring (at 20 quid a day). Assuming I wait for conditions, Is that realistic? Is that easy enough on a boat this size that I can do it at the beginning and end of a days sailing? If not that easy, is it still easy enough that I would do it at the beginning and the end of the season?

If not even that realistic, how sensible/legal is it to put it on a sandbank, wait for the tide to go out, and do it in a pair wellies?

Any help appreciated.
Click to expand...
What you are describing was very common in the "old days" - boats were laid up afloat, often in mud berths where they only floated at high water spring tides. So come October, masts were lowered or removed, probably boats taken upriver under bridges and left in the mud berth or on a drying swing mooring until April. This worked for 2 reasons. First there were few alternatives and second the owners would either do it themselves with mates or pay a local longshoreman ten shillings to do it for them.

Those days have gone, and while a few people still run their boats on a shoe string and look for the cheapest possible ways of keeping their boats, it is high risk and very limiting. In this months YM there is a report of 4 small boats lost having been left on swinging moorings and the mooring gear failed in the last gales.

As many replies to your queries have said, the cheapest and most effective way to get onto small cruiser sailing is to join a small self run club - not the big posh ones like I belong to, but the ones up small rivers and creeks of which there are plenty in the west country where members do everything including running moorings. Takes a while to get into them and on the list for a mooring, but again as people have said, members will help you get into the swing of things. Another report in YM this month is of the Cargreen club which is just like this owning its own equipment for laying and maintaining moorings for members' use.

However, even with this type of low cost club you will still be looking at annual costs of club membership, moorings and basic maintenance that will dwarf the sort of purchase cost you are hinting at. Boating is an expensive activity, and the most expensive variety is buying a boat that is not fully functioning as the cost of storage while you fix it plus materials will exceed your most generous estimates - even worse for a beginner as you start without any experience of what is involved.

The reason why there are so many older boats in various states of decay for sale for peanuts is because the owners have come to the conclusion that the cost of running a boat far outweighs the use and pleasure they get out of it. So why would anyone else, particularly a beginner think that they could do it better - after all the boat only cost £1000? Ignorance (not in a nasty way) and rose tinted spectacles. That does not mean you cannot get value for money at the lower end and run a boat for modest annual sums. It means getting to know where you can moor and store a boat in such a way that you can actually use it when you want and keep it safe in the winter, then look for a solid, functioning boat like those I linked to in one of your other threads, get a bit of tuition and go sailing.

There is a wide range of posters here, many who have done just that and are still running modest boats on a budget and others like myself who started off at the "bottom" (although I actually built my first 2 boats because that is what you had to do 40+ years ago!) and have worked up the ladder to eventually own big offshore cruising boats. Of course their advice is not always consistent as there are many ways of going boating, but for a beginner the general advice is fairly consistent - get some training, join a club and buy a modest functioning boat. That gives you a good chance of getting hooked in the activity and growing with it.
 
Back to the original question, lowering and raising the mast on a frequent basis is not something to be undertaken lightly. You need a boat with a Tabernacle in the shape of an open box, which locates and supports a deck-stepped mast and provide a hinge point, also an A frame structure to hold the mast straight along the centre line and give control and leverage and a sheltered place to do the job.
When I went around the French canals on a 22 footer I lowered and raised my mast single handed when I had to but roped in some assistance when I could. The job is far from easy and very time consuming slacking and re tensioning the rigging.
1673396564912.jpg
 
To answer the original question. (in case others are interested.) Yes it is easy to lower a mast to traverse under a bridge. Even while under way with a helper. (unless you are well practiced and organised). However this comment is predicated on the bridge having clearance of perhaps 3 metres or more. Plus you must have all the right gear and be practiced. If as you describe you have very little clearance above the cabin top you will possibly have to disconnect the mast from the base and move the mast forward (as if you were towing it on a trailer.
Typically a hinged mast with mast in hinge will hit the main sliding hatch so leaving the top of the mast perhaps 80cms higher than the cabin top. In any case you will need a crutch at the transom to carry the mast. The height of this crutch will dictate height above water of the mast top. So selection of crutch height is critical. The higher the better ie up to the max height you can reach to lift mast from cockpit to aid complete removal.
So rough answer to OP question for 20fter if there is 3metres of clearance under bridge no problem. If there is 1.8m clearance much more difficult. ol'will
 
LadyInBed said:
Back to the original question, lowering and raising the mast on a frequent basis is not something to be undertaken lightly. You need a boat with a Tabernacle in the shape of an open box, which locates and supports a deck-stepped mast and provide a hinge point, also an A frame structure to hold the mast straight along the centre line and give control and leverage and a sheltered place to do the job.
When I went around the French canals on a 22 footer I lowered and raised my mast single handed when I had to but roped in some assistance when I could. The job is far from easy and very time consuming slacking and re tensioning the rigging.
View attachment 149022
Click to expand...
Just be careful an A frame structure will aid lowering the mast (in fact that or a gin pole is essential) But an A frame will not keep the mast central as it goes down. if the boat leans to one side the mast will swing sideways exacerbating lean and destroying your hinge base. You must have for a larger boat shrouds or stays to keep tension on mast sideways even at 45 and more degrees from horizontal until mast drops in to crutch. Smaller boat, flat water you can get away with a helper on cabin top holding mast central. ol'will
 
My first boat was a Westerly Nimrod and I used to be able to drop the mast on my own while afloat. Ok it’s just under 18f but boy was it fun to sail.
Raising the mast before sailing would get old fast and having to do it before getting to my mooring could be problematic if not dangerous In anything but calm conditions.
I used to keep it on a drying mud birth in a river and maintaining the boat was difficult, I used to take the outboard home which could be interesting.
in the early stages of sailing you want to get out as much as you cam getting the right tides, weather, free time to coincide can be difficult.
 
There's a river in Australia which lots of quite large yachts sail from with a low bridge before the sea. They routinely raise and lower their masts while motoring out. To do this they are fitted with an a-frame and a pair of shrouds that are attached to the deck level with the pivot point of the tabernacle so that they stay tight as the mast moves. It would require a fair bit of work to install - custom welded fittings attached to the deck, work on the mast, the a-frame etc. All this would clutter and degrade the boat in normal use. But it's totally possible.
I once jury-rigged something similar and used it to raise the mast of a Sonata on my own. It was just about ok.
 
Lets assume as with many smaller boats - mast is deck stepped .........................

My Alacrity 19 ...

fL1zP3a.jpg


I could lower and raise mast on my own due to having a decent tabernacle for mast to pivot in. But I would do on a calm day so mast was not subjected to boat moving about too much. Usually though I would have a second person with me to steady mast while I did the stays.

Next boat Snapdragon 23 ...

3wrvl0Tl.jpg


I used to lower and raise mast on my swinging mooring .... even did it with my son who was 9yr old at the time .... again a decent Tabernacle for mast to pivot ...

My present boat Sunrider 25 ...

kL6iJxkl.jpg


Iced in for winter ...

gxCM824l.jpg


mast is too heavy and needs either 3 people or an A frame due to the small Blade mast fitting ...
The A-frame actually allows me to lower / raise mast by myself as long as I am in quiet area and boat unlikely to move about too much ...
I have 3 bridges to negotiate from my Home Mooring and the A frame is 'heavens solution' .....


The use of A frame - means I can lower mast as seen in the video ... leave all rigged as is ... proceed to harbour, raise mast and then remove A frame ready to go sailing !! I can lay A frame parts on side deck if only a short sail. Longer - usually I will have my Gardener collect A frame with the van and take back home.
 
Local friend trailer sails his small gaff cutter. The mast is in a tabernacle and the mainsail stays on the boom and gaff, both foresails are on rollers. The spars rest in a scissor crutch on the transom.
So, he arrives at the slip, takes off the straps and number board, launches her, gives the rig a heft on his shoulder, then pulls on the two tackles that pull the forestay and inner stay. Cleat off and go sailing.
Takes longer to park the trailer and car...
So, it can be done, as long as the preparation is sound. His boat is a bit smaller that 20ft and the mast on a gaff rig is shorter, so doesn't over hang the transom too far. But that is a problem for towing, not shooting bridges.

I am prepping a 20ft for the next season, standard bermudan rig, so mast is 27ft or so. Not expecting to be dropping the mast too often, but no crane or other help at the mooring.
So, two poles hinged by the rail, with the apex having a fitting to slide in the mast track. This takes away the problem of keeping it vertical on the way up. Gin pole and tackle/winch to the bow fitting, expect no problem single handing it up.
 
Honest comment .... ....

Stay away from single Gin Pole setups ..... I tried it one time and the Gin Pole did not stay aligned - as soon as mast started to lower - it shot of to the side .... luckily I had 3 guys there who stopped mast falling to side.

A frame is the way to go .... I am considering adding an extra chainplate each side of cabin (removable) that aligns with mast pivot ... basically all my stays connect lower down on toerail. I can then use the storms'l halyard I have to set two rope stays ... The other way is to have a line led forward from each cap shroud - made fast to shroud in line with mast pivot ... so as mast lowers / raises - the 'pivot point' of the cap shrouds is same as that of mast pivot.
 
Gixer said:
Once again sold but a Mirror Offshore might be an option. Inboard engine and stubby little mast.
Mirror Offshore MK1 Sturdy And Honest For Sale, 5.75m, unknown year
A guy had one next to me when I had my Nimrod and it took to the ground well. He said he took it to the channel islands and back one summer.
My Nimrod would run rings around it but the mirror was a solid safe boat.
Click to expand...
Safe? It might be safe in coastal waters near home in F4 but ????? :unsure:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top