How much chain? No windlass.

[Tranona]

My only reason for asking about weight of anchor was for ease of handling - but you already have the appropriate size rather than overweight!. I have never felt the need for over 50m, even in the CIs, but with the option of adding rope warp if necessary. Probably not practical now, but on my old Eventide which is similar weight and size to your boat I had a 25lb CQR on 1/4" chain and the best thing I added was an SL Anchorman with drum which was like a winch. Sitting on the font of the coachroof I could haul as quickly as an electric. I had it made without the chrome plating and it was (and still is) a lovely bit of kit. lewmar.com/content/obsolete-windlass-information

The horizontal axis ratchet type like the Royal are really only good for that extra bit of grunt to unstick the anchor. Far too slow for full retrieval. There used to be some geared ones made in Taiwan which were much better but doubt you will find one now

 

[Refueler]

I have to agree with T about the Royal ... lovely bit of kit - but boy is it slow !! But believe me when I say - it literally has enough power to rip itself out of deck !

 

[oldmanofthehills]

10mm chain is about 2.3 kg/m. 20m would be 46kg. Add a 10kg anchor and you’re at 56kg, which in water would equate to about 49 kg.
How fit and strong are you feeling? Can you lift that off the bottom comfortably on a moving boat?

Even 6mm chain more than strong enough if you buy nautical chain. We have 8mm for 4.5 ton 28ft boat but would happily change to 6 or 7 if our capstan didnt cost so much to adapt. Only need capstan as Navigator has injured back

 

[TonyMS]

Even 6mm chain more than strong enough if you buy nautical chain. We have 8mm for 4.5 ton 28ft boat but would happily change to 6 or 7 if our capstan didnt cost so much to adapt. Only need capstan as Navigator has injured back

Our 3 ton approx cat has no windlass and we are a couple in our 80s cruising the Ionian. We have a 15Kg Rocna anchor and 50m chain, plus more rope. We usually anchor in <5m, but sometimes tie back to a cliff in 10 to 15m with about 40m out.
Our grade 40 7m chain is the same strength as 8m grade 40, and weighs about 2/3rds. We do have a lever and pawl giving a 3:1 advantage for difficult lifts.

 

[pmagowan]

I like your thinking. With steel at +/- 8x the density of water, that means that the chain's weight is reduced by a whole 12% or so, which must be a greater encouragement to your crew, to whom I assume you delegate such menial tasks.

Well, the anchor monkey is getting on in years so anything that brings him hope is of great importance. Of course one has to show their superior strength and technique from time to time to keep everyone on their place.

 

[thinwater]

I wouldn't be doing chain with no windlass. Been there, done that. I'd either upgrade or stay with rope and use a chain kellet.

 

[Bristolfashion]

Even 6mm chain more than strong enough if you buy nautical chain. We have 8mm for 4.5 ton 28ft boat but would happily change to 6 or 7 if our capstan didnt cost so much to adapt. Only need capstan as Navigator has injured back

Our windlass runs either 6 or 7mm chain - we bought some very swanky 7mm Italian certified chain - but we can always downsize as we age!

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Our windlass runs either 6 or 7mm chain - we bought some very swanky 7mm Italian certified chain - but we can always downsize as we age!

I manage fine by hand but needed navigator to rescue me when swept away due to dingy failure and she cant manage by hand so windlass essential kit. Our LM has windlass of unknown make but our bank balance of known limitation so it all stay as it is

 

[Bristolfashion]

I manage fine by hand but needed navigator to rescue me when swept away due to dingy failure and she cant manage by hand so windlass essential kit. Our LM has windlass of unknown make but our bank balance of known limitation so it all stay as it is

I have one of those bank accounts! You may have said, but is it an LM30?

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I wouldn't be doing chain with no windlass. Been there, done that. I'd either upgrade or stay with rope and use a chain kellet.

I find it ok, but I do keep a pair of otherwise past it sailing gloves in the anchor locker.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I have one of those bank accounts! You may have said, but is it an LM30?

LM27 so pretty straight 4 tonnes. If i had known how much it would cost to bring 40 year old boat and design up to 21 century acceptable I would have bought an LM30

 

[dunedin]

On reflection, the biggest factor in anchor chain handling without a windlass is whether generally solo or crewed. As noted further up, if 2 or more competent people plus good communication, the engine can be used to remove most of the load.

If solo, any weight of boat and the breeze gets up then much more tricky. As I discovered when the electric windlass failed a few weeks back!

But either way I personally will be sticking either all chain - even if our 87m is a little unusual and rarely used beyond 60m (which is often used)

 

[Bristolfashion]

On a small / light boat, the effect of a lot of weight, particularly at the bow, can be significant.

 

[noelex]

The main problem with rope rode is its poor abrasion resistance.

The prime motivation for considering a long length of chain rode is a concern that abrasion resistance may be inadequate with rope rode.

 

[zoidberg]

Due to ease off handling however I need to handle some 6mm and appropriate warp for comparison then it would be 60m given the weight saving.

Come here, have some coffee, handle the 6mm in a 'tray' outside. Best I can do...

 

[Bristolfashion]

The main problem with rope rode is its poor abrasion resistance.

The prime motivation for considering a long length of chain rode is a concern that abrasion resistance may be inadequate with rope rode.

It's a good point - and therefore one must consider depths one normally anchors in, type of seabed etc. In many cases, with 30m chain, I wouldn't let out enough rope to touch the sea bed even in completely calm conditions, this there'd be almost no chance of chafe.

In much more feisty conditions, the rode will be taut and, again, the rope section will be above the seabed.

I do inspect the rope section each time it comes in however.

I have thought that, if I ever had doubts about the rope section holding, I'd shackle one of our heavy, long ropes to the end of the chain section to double the rope section.

 

[Neeves]

We replaced 50m x 8mm x G30 chain with 75mx 6mm G100 chain I had galvanised. Both allowed for a 40m extension of 3 ply 12mm nylon. The 6mm has the same strength as the 8mm. I have since discovered that there is a 4mm HT chain and if I had that time again would look at the implications. 38' x 22'6" x 7t cat. Down sizing chain can save weight and frees up space in the chain locker for 'lighter' items - primarily fenders.

We use a Maxwell windlass - that retrieves seriously quickly (and better than I can ).

The motivation was weight saving and we replaced our 15kg steel Excel with an identically sized 8kg aluminium Excel. Today I'd replace with a 10kg Odin, from Viking. It has the same hold as the steel Excel but saves weight, better resists veering loads, sets quickly and saves weight by replacing mild steel with HT steels (of a thinner plate).

Jonathan

 

[doug748]

I have a similar boat and use a 10kg anchor with 40m of 8mm.

It's ok even for an old bloke, I have a manual windlass but rarely have to use it. If you are getting to the feeble stage 6mm would do though less efficient.

At 40m of chain you would only have to hank on a length of rope in the Bay of Fundy (or more likely the Bay of St Malo).

.

 

[Tranona]

The main problem with rope rode is its poor abrasion resistance.

The prime motivation for considering a long length of chain rode is a concern that abrasion resistance may be inadequate with rope rode.

In reality this is rarely an issue in the south coast of UK (and east coast USA where rope is more common) because of the depths of anchorages and the nature of the seabeds. Biggest downside is wear and rust where the rope is spliced onto chain. The 50m or so of chain with rope ready to shackle on is a common set up here.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

….
At 40m of chain you would only have to hank on a length of rope in the Bay of Fundy (or more likely the Bay of St Malo).

.

Or the Bristol Channel, and perhaps near the Channel Islands - indeed anywhere where anchorages are 20m+ deep and currents of 3 to 6kts