How much chain? No windlass.

[Neeves]

In reality this is rarely an issue in the south coast of UK (and east coast USA where rope is more common) because of the depths of anchorages and the nature of the seabeds. Biggest downside is wear and rust where the rope is spliced onto chain. The 50m or so of chain with rope ready to shackle on is a common set up here.

And the second problem is that after retrieval the rope sits at the bottom of the chain locker, all salty and damp, and the chain is stored on top - and then the owners wonders why his chain corrodes.


Jonathan

 

[Cspirit]

What are the forum views of these?
Trem Chain Quick Link - Galvanised Chain Link
Work of devil or they are fine. I had one installed on a previous boat but was not concerned as chain was over sized.

@zoidberg @Tranona I Appreciate the high tensile chain at 6mm however 8mm is comfortable to grip same goes for following warp. However a trip to the chandlers is required to confirm.

@Tranona I had not mentioned Anchor sizes as I didn't want an anchor thread (9kg Knox bought on forum and it fits in locker and on bow for short hops).
I also have Fortress FX16 kedge (X Bow anchor) with similar rode amounts.

Anchor windlass is now on hold following reading comments here, electric not in budget manual to slow.

If required chain hook and jib sheet winch. I have never had problem heaving anchor even single handed, as other have said there is a knack

The reason for asking about chain connectors is cost.

Regarding weights and second anchors for me I like simplicity and a smaller swinging circle, extra complications I don't need.

Long keel boat with large cutaway on bow, roller headsail no spray dodger aft she sails around nicely.

I am leaning to 40m or 50m 8mm chain plus 50m rode.

Due to ease off handling however I need to handle some 6mm and appropriate warp for comparison then it would be 60m given the weight saving.

Here’s my two pennies worth: firstly, do go for 6mm chain. On my 10 ton boat I down sized from 10mm to 8mm - no problems anchoring most days for around twenty summers in the Med, Brittany etc. So, on my current 4 ton boat I went for 6 mm, again no problems. Secondly, don’t even think about a manual windlass. I was young and fit when I had one but even then I would be reluctant to weigh anchor if it didn’t set first time and if I had to do it again I’d need to wheel on a second athlete. If you anchor a lot an electric windlass is a safety device in my view.

 

[zoidberg]

For those who may be interested, I sourced 6mm galv G80 chain by KitoCrosby/Gunnebo. Their national rep Mister Ashley Hall pointed me towards two agents in my region - SpencerRigging in Cowes and CWS Lifting in Bath. The product is produced in conformity with industrial lifting chain standards.

SpencerRigging were exactly 50% more expensive, so I went to CWS.

The order of 100m. came on a pallet, and CWS cut it in half for me, simplifying loading. I was able to sell on 50m. at pro rata half the cost to me.
Ruth C. was extremely helpful.

 

[thinwater]

.... Biggest downside is wear and rust where the rope is spliced onto chain. The 50m or so of chain with rope ready to shackle on is a common set up here.

Once every 3-4 years you sit down with a beer and:

• Cut off 1-3 links. They get corroded.
• Cut off 1-3 meters of rope. Whatever the connection type, there will be some wear, depending on frequency, conditions, and bottom type.
• Redo the splice. That should take about 15 minutes at most. It's a very simple splice.

A splice also has the advantage of eliminating one more thing that can snag on the roller or pipe. I splice rodes that I do not run through a windlass, just because it is smoother on the roller, in the hands, and down the pipe. But that is personal choice. If for some reason (has never happened) I would want to shackle on a different rode, a knife solves the problem in seconds.

If the chain runs through a combination gypsy on the windlass a thimble and shackle will not pass. With a windlass the Irony splice is even better, but that would be another thread. More complicated, but still full strength and very smooth.

 

[Black Sheep]

The order of 100m. came on a pallet, and CWS cut it in half for me, simplifying loading. I was able to sell on 50m. at pro rata half the cost to me.

And I was the chap who gratefully bought the other half - many thanks for doing all the hard work!
The WLL of 1.1 tonnes is the same as 8mm chain of G40. But it weighs only 0.8kg per metre instead of 1.4kg. So a 50m length is 40kg rather than 70kg.
The only thing with 6mm high strength chain is getting high strength connectors that will fit. I ended up with hammerlock G80 connectors G80 & G100 Chain Connectors 6MM - 32MM | SecureFix Direct
I sleep easy at anchor - chain failure is not a worry.

If you anchor a lot an electric windlass is a safety device in my view.

Yes... not an essential safety device, but useful to encourage safe decisions. I can happily set and retrieve my anchor by hand. But with an electric windlass, I am more likely to admit to myself that I'm not happy with the way the anchor has set, and to retrieve and reset the anchor. I'm a lazy sausage, and if I had to do it by hand, I might convince myself that it wasn't necessary.

On reflection, the biggest factor in anchor chain handling without a windlass is whether generally solo or crewed. As noted further up, if 2 or more competent people plus good communication, the engine can be used to remove most of the load.

If solo, any weight of boat and the breeze gets up then much more tricky.

It can be done, depending on your setup. I do all my anchor and chain handling at the stern. Anchor goes over the back, chain follows as the boat makes slow way forward, then snubs on a stern cleat. End of the chain is secured to a long rope rode, outside everything, through bow roller, then back on deck to another stern cleat. Release chain from stern cleat, boat swings to hang off the bow conventionally; I then haul most of the rope rode back aboard where the portion on deck forms a 9m snubber. To raise anchor, another rode from chain end to stern cleat; release the snubber rode and the boat swings so it's hanging off the stern. Then haul in at my leisure. When the chain anchor is straight up-and-down, I am there at the tiller, engine controls and main halyard. In practice, the two rodes are permanently attached to the chain end.

 

[Tranona]

Once every 3-4 years you sit down with a beer and:

• Cut off 1-3 links. They get corroded.
• Cut off 1-3 meters of rope. Whatever the connection type, there will be some wear, depending on frequency, conditions, and bottom type.
• Redo the splice. That should take about 15 minutes at most. It's a very simple splice.

A splice also has the advantage of eliminating one more thing that can snag on the roller or pipe. I splice rodes that I do not run through a windlass, just because it is smoother on the roller, in the hands, and down the pipe. But that is personal choice. If for some reason (has never happened) I would want to shackle on a different rode, a knife solves the problem in seconds.

If the chain runs through a combination gypsy on the windlass a thimble and shackle will not pass. With a windlass the Irony splice is even better, but that would be another thread. More complicated, but still full strength and very smooth.

I agree with all of that if you are using a mixed rode as a deliberate strategy, but I was suggesting all chain to 50m as in the area the OP sails that will cover over 90% of anchoring situations and for the odd occasions he needs extra to shackle on additional rope.

 

[NormanS]

I can see the advantage of having a mixed rode, a light chain, and a light anchor on a lightweight boat. My boat, like many others carries three tons of ballast keel, so I'm very happy to have a 10mm all chain rode and a 20kg anchor. I do have an electric windlass. When I think of the weight of fuel, water, spares, tools and stores carried aboard, a few extra kg of ground tackle isn't going to make any difference. I can also sleep soundly at night, sometimes in quite challenging conditions.

 

[thinwater]

I can see the advantage of having a mixed rode, a light chain, and a light anchor on a lightweight boat. My boat, like many others carries three tons of ballast keel, so I'm very happy to have a 10mm all chain rode and a 20kg anchor. I do have an electric windlass. When I think of the weight of fuel, water, spares, tools and stores carried aboard, a few extra kg of ground tackle isn't going to make any difference. I can also sleep soundly at night, sometimes in quite challenging conditions.

And that is the charm of anchor threads. Everyone has a one-size fits all solution! Mud or coral. 50 feet deep or 3 feet shallow. 1 ton or 20 tons. Lunch stops or all-weather.

We could just stick to the OP's situation, but where's the fun in that?

 

[Zing]

4t boats no windlass 5' draft.

Present set up 20m Chain and 50m warp. Which has always been suitable in anchorages in the Solent area (small tidal range)...

However once out into bigger tidal ranges, I find once all the chain is on the bottom and she is on warp she sails around considerably even in benign conditions.

Weight is a consideration for lifting and to some extent trim and cost.

Questions:
Main question how much chain and what size/ grade?
For UK sailing area, are there any rules of thumb?
Should I just buy extra chain and use a chain link?


Secondary question (out of budget at moment) the costs and considerations of fitting a windlass?
Separate Battery? Cables? Presently on lead acid batteries not planning on changing soon.
We have the standard triangular chain locker on bow, happy to lift anchor in and out due to home berthing setup.

I have not looked into any of this in depth, asking first to find out what others are doing / using.

You need as much chain as the length of rode you are going to put out in the worst situation less the height from the bow roller to the seabed. That is to ensure some random rock or mollusk or old tin can or whatever doesn’t cut you lose at 3am. So for example if you decide in the worst situation you can anchor safely at a scope of 4:1 and the deepest you will anchor is 6m below the bow roller then you need 18m of chain. Obviously you can push your luck here. As Dirty Harry said; ‘do you feeling lucky punk’?

Also consider getting G70 chain and downsizing. Will save maybe 20% of weight. Consider a dyneema rode section also, it’s particularly chafe resistant, especially if sleeved in dyneema.