How did you learn to be such a safe and capable sailor?

[Adios]

Fascinating point in another thread "A number of studies have been carried out in the past comparing "safety" in boating in a number of different countries which generally showed no correlation between level of qualifications required and a whole range of safety indicators. Rather the opposite. The UK which is the only major country in the world that has no qualification requirements for leisure boating has the best safety record."

Well done us. But how have we managed it?

I didn't have any money back when I started, first boat 13ft, cost £200, second a £1000 18ft boat, RYA courses were more than I had for these first boats and I had none of the sailing clothing I thought I'd be required to have to join in with the proper yachties (sadly before ebay!). So I was self taught gradually getting bigger boats and more ambitious with trips. I learned from second hand PBO and YM magazines from chandleries and charity shop books, I bought any with a relation to sailing and boats, Hiscocks, Slocum, Chichester etc etc and then going out and doing it. I've never called upon the RNLI, never had an accident insurance claim, no injuries on board, no one lost at sea.

I knew I was solely responsible for acquiring my education and had no illusion that someone was gifting me a set required amount of knowledge. There was no point where anyone said "right, you've earned your stripes, you're qualified" so learning feels like an endless process. I've always thought that was an ideal way to do it and while respecting the RYA greatly I wondered how many people get their certification while having little of the focused experience you get from being solo in your own boat, they might then buy quite a large boat relative to the limited experience and bite off more than they can chew? But I've no idea how common that is. In countries where it is compulsory to do courses presumably it is forbidden to learn by messing about in small boats. Or because it is compulsory they made the courses very short and cheap but still there would be that psychological end point of learning when a person is certified competent. Not saying everyone or even many take that to mean they don't ever have to learn more but I think it must have an effect.

Really curious to know how the different routes work out. You'd think that whatever the route they'd all end at roughly the same level of knowledge and experience but maybe not, what is it about how they do it abroad that makes them less safe?

 

[john_morris_uk]

Golly! A question to which there will be as many different answers as there are posters/forum members?

I started as a small child with a dinghy that was shared with two siblings. (One is now Commodore of a national sailing organisation and the other doesn't sail at all...)

We had a succession of dinghies but I was spotted by the father of a friend as a likely crew while sailing a Bembridge Scow off the beach at Amroth, S Wales. (My friend who was his son didn't enjoy sailing so he was desperate for crew!). I sailed/crewed on his Galleon 22 (which I thought was huge and luxurious) for many summers all through my teen years until university. A bit of a break and then the sailing bug came back. I eventually took a YM theory and Coastal Practical Course with Westerly Sea School. After a lot of mistakes and miles, I did my Yachtmaster with John Goode and got asked to become an Instructor. The rest is history until I joined the RN and was then asked to become an Examiner. In the meantime I've sailed with lots of well known people and learned a lot but I'm not going to start dropping names.

Lots of mistakes and self teaching along the way along with devouring books and magazines. Lots of sailing with various boats while I was serving in the RN but I'm still making. mistakes and mucking up from time to time. It's just a bit more embarrassing nowadays. Experience is a great teacher so long as you actually learn from it.

 

[penfold]

I have ticked the 1st option, except I was on keel boats rather than dinghies as there was no dinghy racing at our club when I was a rug rat, crewing for a succession of boat owners. I have an RYA VHF ticket, but that's it. I haven't felt underqualified despite sailing thousands of miles offshore. These days the kids have the opportunity to do the RYA quals as the club has an instructor.

 

[westhinder]

Do you happen to have a source for that statement you base your question on? None of the countries of which I have direct experience require any formal training to sail a boat on the sea: the Netherlands, Belgium and France. Belgium and France have requirements for power boats above certain limits, but none for sailing yachts. They all have plenty of sailing schools that offer tuition, few of which, granted, with the same curriculum and marketing power as the RYA.

But to answer your question, apart from a few days learning to sail a dinghy, I have had no practical training, but learned by crewing and gradually taking more responsibility until I felt I could take the next step and skipper a boat. Along the way I did a theory course and gained the qualification. Charters first, then I took the plunge and bought the boat on which I had crewed, then skippered and which I knew very well. I kept her for 11 years, then bought the boat I have owned for 12 years.
Safe skipper? I do hope so, I have sailed for 35 years without serious mishap, but acutely aware that the sea is a stern teacher and you never stop learning.

 

[Tranona]

As the author of the quotation my view is that in the UK we are surrounded by water of all sorts and there are so many opportunities to get involved through youth organisations, schools clubs armed forces and so on that the pool of people who take up sailing or motorboating in later life is huge. Add to that our coasts are all challenging and encourage a culture of self preservation and experiential learning (that is you make mistakes, or see them in others and learn from them). My introduction was canoeing on the Tamar on my Outward Bound followed by crewing on a Sabre from the east coast across the Thames estuary and to Holland, followed by a couple of exciting sails out of English Harbour in Antigua.

Bitten hard enough to build first a plywood 14' then a 19' Sea Wych and a move to Poole. Onwards and upwards. YM Yachtmaster theory as it was in those days and lots of sailing in the Sea Wych and then a 26'followed by a 37' on Corfu and back to UK. I think a common story of self help, learning as you go with a healthy bit of risk aversion. Although along the way I owned an Osprey (mainly because it was a short cut to entry to the club) and a YW Dayboat, never really took to small boat sailing, nor saw it as an entry to cruising.

Fairly representative of the way most people progress although details vary. In my view compulsory training and regulation do not lead to safer boating. Most individuals are perfectly capable of making their own decisions about what is appropriate for them - add in a healthy bit of self preservation and you get safe boating.

 

[Tranona]

Do you happen to have a source for that statement you base your question on? None of the countries of which I have direct experience require any formal training to sail a boat on the sea: the Netherlands, Belgium and France. Belgium and France have requirements for power boats above certain limits, but none for sailing yachts. They all have plenty of sailing schools that offer tuition, few of which, granted, with the same curriculum and marketing power as the RYA.

France does however have regulations about how you equip your boat and where you can sail it. All the Mediterranean coast countries and Germany have formal qualification requirements and equipment/operational areas as do Australia NZ, US and Canada. As you know in UK we have nothing for either boat or skipper. You are right of course that Netherlands and Belgium do nit have regulations but in the world view they are small fry and have a similar safety record as in the UK according to the studies I have seen.

The point is that compulsory training and licencing does not correlate with greater safety which has been the RYA/NCA line for years. The studies I referred to were about 15 years ago when there was talk of EU wide licencing and in the UK the boating drink laws.

This youtube.com/watch?v=WNrfw2BX8fg for example might give you an idea of what is required to get insurance as a very experienced sailor but first time boat owner in the US.

 

[Tranona]

deleted duplication

 

[Wansworth]

For all your learning a certain confidence in yourself

 

[Adios]

For all your learning a certain confidence in yourself

Its no small thing is it taking a small boat a way out to sea. Putting yourself in a life or death survival situation with just your knowledge to rely on. Bound to give a useful type of self confidence

 

[Uricanejack]

None of the above.
never done RYA.
Messed about in variety of rowed or powered boats as a kid. Mostly fishing, Crewed occasionally on family motor boat. Cadet program and Worked in marine industry.
learned to sail with Ocean Youth Club.
Worked my way down in sise. To smaller sailboats. Even windsurfing
Challenged sail Canada, as part of instructor course.
Never sailed a dingy. Except for a lifeboat course. In December on the Tyne. Can’t say I was any more than minimally enthusiastic or successful.
Did a lot of rowing whale boats on the Tyne. In October November and December.
Between the two it put me right off. I though sailing was for the birds.
I enjoyed The Ocean Youth Club experience which got me interested in sailing.

 

[[2574]]

Messing in river boats, then night school Day Skipper. Then a week with (the late,, much lamented) Robert Avis on our motorboat for day skipper practical. Then a certain Mr Morris RN (see above) taught us how the flappy things work. After that just experience through pushing the boundary, though I’m conscious that I haven’t pushed it enough.....

Saddest thing I’ve seen in this regard is a lovely guy on the DS course who couldn’t do the interpolation of tidal heights, just couldn’t get it, so he dropped out. He’d been taking a fishing boat out in the Wash for years but wanted the ticket for expanded horizons,but he gave up and went back to the Wash.

 

[Blueboatman]

I am going to tick dinghy sailing as a kid , because that was where I was allowed to go off and make my own mistakes . And progress those mistakes and learning into reading more and more ( others mistakes )
And along the way putting some of that into RYA qualifications but essentially I am self taught and try to be self reliant..and the more you sail , the more CPD, sort of ?

Racing really really ups the game, whether it’s in your nature or no to be competitive
And there are so many great boat ideas that have come out of the racing including safety at sea I think

Never stop learning new and exciting ways to say ‘’now, how the f did that happen ?”

 

[V1701]

I wonder whether the fact that we have a free breakdown/rescue service has anything to do with it???

 

[ProDave]

Am I the only one here who did not sail until age 40? I never did dinghies as a boy, for some reason sailing on a small land locked reservoir in a tiny boat that often falls over did not appeal. First sail was mid 30's visiting a relative near Seattle and had 3 days on his 26ft boat sailing out of Puget sound. That sowed the seed and after we have moved to Scotland closer to the sea at age 40 we then bought our first boat, read a book or 2 and went to sea. We did join the local club which has been fantastic.

 

[Boathook]

I was taught sailing by my Dad. We have always had boats and I had my own dinghy (Cadet) on my 11th birthday and I had to still pay my parents back some money for it. I've never been a 'technical' sailor so sail trim is a hit or miss affair but just enjoy boating and visiting new and old places.
Got a few bits of 'formal' certificates otherwise taught by Dad, some of his friends (mainly all JOG members from the 1950's) and then finally self taught making mistakes ......

 

[Motor_Sailor]

I think any favourable statistics the UK might have are due to our crap weather, strong tides and often hostile looking shoreline.

It could be argued that these 'hazards' should make our sailing more risky, but such overt dangers can also instil a sense of caution in everyone, including beginners.

In contrast other places I've lived like Florida, Malta, Hong Kong, etc, the sea for most of the year simply looks like a flat, benign blue play ground making sun, sea, showing off and 300hp the perfect combination for a fun day out.

 

[johnalison]

I am not in any way against certification and training, but there is a belief that many of today’s sailors do a short period of training and then buy a ‘medium-sized’ boat of around 36’ because that is the sort of thing they trained on, and then go beyond what their limited experience has prepared them for. I have no information about whether they contribute to the accident figures, only that they are sometimes a menace within harbours.

Although I answered ‘dinghy’, much of my learning occurred on the Norfolk Broads on boats of all sizes, with and without power, where a mistake meant that you hit something. I never though of it as learning; we just enjoyed ourselves.

 

[NealB]

I suspect that many will find that the OP's questionnaire doesn't really fit them.

My Dad (an ex MN Captain with RML), bought a Hurley Felicity when I was about 6.

I instantly loved sailing, and loved it even more when Dad upgraded to a converted 32 foot Royal Navy cutter (bermudian rigged) .

I got a rather beaten up old Heron for my 10th birthday, and had many adventures at the top of river Crouch.

As a teenager, I crewed on Merlin Rockets , National 12s, Squibs, Dragons and quarter tonners.

I bought a Corribee when in my mid-20's and have had a, possibly embarrassing, number of other boats since then.

I did an RYA correspondence course, with the Wheelhouse School of Navigation, for YM theory in around 1980, and got round to doing the practical assessment, on board Southern Sailing's 'Southern Rival' in December '89, watched over by a wonderfully laid-back examiner known as 'one-eyed Brian'.

I enjoyed completing the YM Ocean theory the next year, but haven't yet got round to actually doing any proper ocean sailing (maybe, when I grow up).

 

[E39mad]

My parents were members of Bala SC when I was a child so had a Topper at the age of 10. Raced it until 16 plus crewed on a Merlin Rocket and Flying 15 and then had a Laser on Budworth near Northwich.

Moved to college in Southampton at 18 and raced big boats - Sun Legende 41, Dynamic 37, First 405, 45f5, First Class Europe, Sigma 38 at the weekends and Wednesday and Thursday evenings in the summer. Some very good sailors on the bigger boats to glean knowledge from.

Did too much racing and sort of lost interest in the early 1990's and started cruising more borrowing boats from work (Northshore) or a friends Vancouver 32. Did an ARC in 1995. Moved north in 1996 and sailing all but stopped. Raced again out of Dartmouth in the 2000's in a Trapper 28, First 42s7 and Excaliber 36 and in the last decade have chartered abroad and at home plus cruised friends boats on the south coast.

The grounding from dinghies into "big" boats was great and important for me to get to grips quickly with the nuances of sailing/racing bigger boats.

 

[geem]

Fascinating point in another thread "A number of studies have been carried out in the past comparing "safety" in boating in a number of different countries which generally showed no correlation between level of qualifications required and a whole range of safety indicators. Rather the opposite. The UK which is the only major country in the world that has no qualification requirements for leisure boating has the best safety record."

Well done us. But how have we managed it?

I didn't have any money back when I started, first boat 13ft, cost £200, second a £1000 18ft boat, RYA courses were more than I had for these first boats and I had none of the sailing clothing I thought I'd be required to have to join in with the proper yachties (sadly before ebay!). So I was self taught gradually getting bigger boats and more ambitious with trips. I learned from second hand PBO and YM magazines from chandleries and charity shop books, I bought any with a relation to sailing and boats, Hiscocks, Slocum, Chichester etc etc and then going out and doing it. I've never called upon the RNLI, never had an accident insurance claim, no injuries on board, no one lost at sea.

I knew I was solely responsible for acquiring my education and had no illusion that someone was gifting me a set required amount of knowledge. There was no point where anyone said "right, you've earned your stripes, you're qualified" so learning feels like an endless process. I've always thought that was an ideal way to do it and while respecting the RYA greatly I wondered how many people get their certification while having little of the focused experience you get from being solo in your own boat, they might then buy quite a large boat relative to the limited experience and bite off more than they can chew? But I've no idea how common that is. In countries where it is compulsory to do courses presumably it is forbidden to learn by messing about in small boats. Or because it is compulsory they made the courses very short and cheap but still there would be that psychological end point of learning when a person is certified competent. Not saying everyone or even many take that to mean they don't ever have to learn more but I think it must have an effect.

Really curious to know how the different routes work out. You'd think that whatever the route they'd all end at roughly the same level of knowledge and experience but maybe not, what is it about how they do it abroad that makes them less safe?

Almost identical experience. Started sailing at about 12 years old. Dad bought an Enterprise sailing dinghy. Then a Topper then Laser then a 26ft sailing boat. A few years off windsurfing then bought my own 27ft boat then 37ft boat then the current boat at 44ft.
Organic learning over many years with lots of racing on other boats in between.