Is this a Bargain?

[Tranona]

I can't imagine many people being prepared to pay that for a 15 year old Southerly.

Well they do - for the same reasons the small number or people who bought them new were prepared to pay nearly twice as much for one compared with a similar size mass production boat.

 

[Tranona]

Interestingly, I knew a guy with a brand new 35 that had endless teething issues.

I don't know what a 'normal' level of faults in a new boat is, though. I knew a Bav dealer a few years ago and they certainly had snags.

Both of my Bavarias bought new were essentially snag free. The first in 2001 needed 2 replacement hatches which leaked and the second in 2015 was trouble free for the 6 years I owned it apart from a few glitches with the Garmin electronics, all fixed under warranty, a recall on the electronics on the Volvo engine and a Lewmar windlass that blew its motor after only 5 years.

From what I have heard both directly and anecdotally from other new boat buyers, snagging problems are probably more common on boats from low volume builders than mass producers with more controlled production processes and better dealer commissioning.

 

[oldbloke]

From my memory of going on a Link 30 at the boat show I wouldn't have thought that there were enough bits on it for anything to go wrong.
Not that we were in the market , but Mrs spent all of 10 seconds deciding that it wasn't for her

 

[doug748]

From my memory of going on a Link 30 at the boat show I wouldn't have thought that there were enough bits on it for anything to go wrong.
Not that we were in the market , but Mrs spent all of 10 seconds deciding that it wasn't for her

I was probably at the same Southampton show, come to think of it also probably the last one I went to. Working up a new cruiser/racer fleet is a very difficult nut to crack.

 

[Mark-1]

Both of my Bavarias bought new were essentially snag free. The first in 2001 needed 2 replacement hatches which leaked and the second in 2015 was trouble free for the 6 years I owned it apart from a few glitches with the Garmin electronics, all fixed under warranty, a recall on the electronics on the Volvo engine and a Lewmar windlass that blew its motor after only 5 years.

From what I have heard both directly and anecdotally from other new boat buyers, snagging problems are probably more common on boats from low volume builders than mass producers with more controlled production processes and better dealer commissioning.

Yeah, that's why I thought Bavaria was a useful comparison, a volume producer should, in theory, have the least problems. (Mind you it's the only comparison I have.)

 

[gaylord694]

Yes, Loads of boats are better than a Twister. If it was the best boat then everybody would have one and nothing else would ever have been made. How boring.

The only reason everyone hasn't a Twister,Rustler etc is because they never made enough of them for everyone so the fortunate few who have these (proper boats some might say ) and can afford them are very lucky indeed

 

[Tranona]

The only reason everyone hasn't a Twister,Rustler etc is because they never made enough of them for everyone so the fortunate few who have these (proper boats some might say ) and can afford them are very lucky indeed

And the reason they never made many of them was because they were too expensive rather than a lack of capacity. However, they are now "cheap" and often difficult to sell. While owners may consider themselves fortunate it is maybe not a feeling shared by many.

 

[gaylord694]

Like I say I've none of but I think for a proper sail across a proper ocean I'd rather be in one of those than a rizzla thin bathtub

 

[Mark-1]

Like I say I've none of but I think for a proper sail across a proper ocean I'd rather be in one of those than a rizzla thin bathtub

I've sailed both and they're pretty cramped.

If I was was going to be stuck on a boat for weeks on end I think I'd still want more space even at the expense of upwind performance. Space can be used for "stuff" as well.

 

[gaylord694]

I've sailed both and they're pretty cramped.

If I was was going to be stuck on a boat for weeks on end I think I'd still want more space even at the expense of upwind performance. Space can be used for "stuff" as well.

And the reason they never made many of them was because they were too expensive rather than a lack of capacity. However, they are now "cheap" and often difficult to sell. While owners may consider themselves fortunate it is maybe not a feeling shared by many.

Very true, however if you happen to hit a McDonald's carton in the rizzla thin tub you'd be sunk , at least in the expensive proper built boats you would have half a chance and a bit of lettuce to nibble on to boot

 

[Tranona]

Like I say I've none of but I think for a proper sail across a proper ocean I'd rather be in one of those than a rizzla thin bathtub

Who said anything about crossing oceans and hitting things? People cross oceans in all sorts of boats and the vast majority of them do it without hitting things. If you look at the tiny number of boats that hit things you will find all sorts. Equally, I think if you carry out some serious analysis you will find modern boats are in many cases far stronger than you think. Weight and thickness is not a good indicator of impact resistance.

Back to your original observation, people did not buy boats like Twisters because they thought they could survive collisions in the middle of an ocean. They bought them because they were the best at the time and collected a lot of silverware from racing. As soon as better boats were available sales fell off a cliff. Even though they staggered on for many years with several attempts to update, less than 200 were built.

 

[Mark-1]

Very true, however if you happen to hit a McDonald's carton in the rizzla thin tub you'd be sunk , at least in the expensive proper built boats you would have half a chance and a bit of lettuce to nibble on to boot

Well if safety in a collision was your priority you go with steel.

I've seen a steel boat completely bent into a banana shape and still floating. And for lesser incidents repairable with a welder, even on a third world beach.

 

[gaylord694]

Well if safety in a collision was your priority you go with steel.

I've seen a steel boat completely bent into a banana shape and still floating. And for lesser incidents repairable with a welder, even on a third world beach.

Perhaps it hit a banana

 

[gaylord694]

Who said anything about crossing oceans and hitting things? People cross oceans in all sorts of boats and the vast majority of them do it without hitting things. If you look at the tiny number of boats that hit things you will find all sorts. Equally, I think if you carry out some serious analysis you will find modern boats are in many cases far stronger than you think. Weight and thickness is not a good indicator of impact resistance.

Back to your original observation, people did not buy boats like Twisters because they thought they could survive collisions in the middle of an ocean. They bought them because they were the best at the time and collected a lot of silverware from racing. As soon as better boats were available sales fell off a cliff. Even though they staggered on for many years with several attempts to update, less than 200 were built.

Well if safety in a collision was your priority you go with steel.

I've seen a steel boat completely bent into a banana shape and still floating. And for lesser incidents repairable with a welder, even on a third world beach.

Well let's be honest like someone posted everyone can't have beautifully built solid boats with looks to die for otherwise it would be very boring marinas/ moorings to looks at ... I'll leave the plastic rizzla thin bathtubs to other poor souls

 

[Tranona]

Well let's be honest like someone posted everyone can't have beautifully built solid boats with looks to die for otherwise it would be very boring marinas/ moorings to looks at ... I'll leave the plastic rizzla thin bathtubs to other poor souls

Well they can - loads of them sitting around looking for new owners - just people choose not to buy them. Two Twisters for sale on club site, four on Apollo Duck, most expensive less than £20k. !0 Contessa 32 and 5 26 on Apollo Duck. Look on the Woodenships site for plenty of choice of boats that fit your description - many have been for sale for literally years.

So for those who want such things there is no real barrier.

 

[gaylord694]

Your missing the point in the fact that if marinas were full of the same old type of boat there wouldn't be any variation.......My point being it's nice to look at different boats especially the older designs with classic lines irrespective of what you think ,the Contessa,s ,old swans, rustlers S&S designs,Twisters they all have a look of class about them and are very easy on the eye

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Who said anything about crossing oceans and hitting things? People cross oceans in all sorts of boats and the vast majority of them do it without hitting things. If you look at the tiny number of boats that hit things you will find all sorts. Equally, I think if you carry out some serious analysis you will find modern boats are in many cases far stronger than you think. Weight and thickness is not a good indicator of impact resistance.

Back to your original observation, people did not buy boats like Twisters because they thought they could survive collisions in the middle of an ocean. They bought them because they were the best at the time and collected a lot of silverware from racing. As soon as better boats were available sales fell off a cliff. Even though they staggered on for many years with several attempts to update, less than 200 were built.

something over 250 actually. 230 built between 63 and 73.
Not sure how that compares to other 60-70s boats.

 

[doug748]

Like I say I've none of but I think for a proper sail across a proper ocean I'd rather be in one of those than a rizzla thin bathtub

A fair point but you can cross an ocean in most things, depending on your attitude to risk. It's just that in your Twister you stand a better chance of getting to the other side.