How big must a boat be before it become 'easy' to work on?

[omega2]

?

 

[annageek]

?

No good I'm afraid... wouldn't quite fit on the Drystack!

 

[Seastoke]

19 FT is easy until you get greedy and want engines, toilets ,beds ,think about raggies when they have to climb up the top of that pole,or send swimbo on a training course

 

[superheat6k]

In my experience the reverse is true for getting simpler. My own limit of size is a 400' Type 42 Destroyer, and they could be 'difficult' when they wanted to be !

 

[MapisM]

Bet it's not as easy as this though
http://www.setsail.com/the-engine-room/

Am I right in remembering to have read somewhere that the FPB e/r (at least in the 64' - or maybe even in the 83'?) is not full standing height?
That would be a rather important point, if I should draw a list of features for the ideal "easy to work on" boat.
And that's not unheard of, on 65' or so long range boats of more traditional design - this being a fantastic example:

That said, I wouldn't mind an e/r like in the FPB64 anyway, of course!

 

[alt]

I got a 23' and it seemed easy to work in.

I got a 34' and it seemed easier to work in.

I now have a 39' and it seems easier to work in. So much so, that when I go back to work on the 34' (friend has same model), I dread having to go into the engine room as it is much more cramped compared to the 37'.

It's all relative really!

 

[vas]

I think it's an age (and designer greed to cramp as much as possible on same length) thing as well.

My 40yo 43ft tub has a rather roomy e/r and I can go all around the engines with minimal effort. Hull to engine space is enough for me to get there and sit almost comfortably doing something. No standing height though. My mate's P420 (or something like that) has side tanks and V8s and there's no way in hell he'll ever remove the heat exchanger on the port engine (iirc) for cleaning. The other P45 has the batteries in a rather awkward space behind a bunk or something and it's an impossible task to remove them as they're heavy bits of kit to handle.
FE, haven't seen any other similar sized craft with such generous battery rack area, all nice and flat and a full metre free above the batteries and the engine hatch on top so that you can easily remove them (when they explode as they always do...)

What I'm saying is that e/r size is rather generous that I think no modern builder would accept (too much space "wasted")...
Detailing is also an issue, I spend an awful lot of time figuring out where to fit things so that when the whole lot is in place I can access them without having to dismantle half of them everytime...

cheers

V.

 

[prv]

Am I right in remembering to have read somewhere that the FPB e/r (at least in the 64' - or maybe even in the 83'?) is not full standing height?

I'd be surprised if that were the case, as it's the full depth of the hull in both boats. There isn't that much rocker in the keel, so if the engine room didn't have standing headroom then neither would the sleeping cabins, and I'm quite sure they do.

Is it possible you're confusing the engine room and the "basement" under the "great room"? That indeed doesn't have standing room until you get to the really big models, but it's essentially a systems bay (more space to install things neatly with room to work!) and a very large storage locker, neither of which you'd expect to walk around in on any other boat either.

Pete

 

[MapisM]

Possibly, I'm not positive on that. As I said, I had in mind to have read something along those lines somewhere.
Otoh, that's not something which would surprise me, because their whole design is focused on keeping the vessel as low as possible - in sharp contrast with the latest volume-oriented Nordhavn, for instance.
But I might be wrong on their e/r height.

 

[markspark7]

I have a 39 ft boat and access to the engines means taking up the entire floor and removing most of the fitted furniture just to be able to do weekly checks... due to the fact that some plant pot stuck a genny in the space reserved for access.
I dont think reverse engineering is a term often used in boat building, maybe if boat builders had to service and maintain the boats they sell then they may put more thought into the design.

 

[TwoHooter]

It doesn't matter how big the boat is if it has been built by people who don't think about maintenance. My boat has excellent access all round the engine but I recently had to replace the diaphragm and seals in our mechanical heads pump and a job which should have taken an hour actually took a whole day because the wretched thing had been fitted in an inaccessible place in a way that prevented it from being removed so I had to undo and then redo 8 slotted screws using a mirror to guide the screwdriver.
View attachment 51688

So you could have a beautiful engine room but if a head or a bilge pump fails and it's buried inaccessibly you're back to square one. I think the big thing about Steve Dashew's boats is that the man has always sailed, and now drives his own design of boat, so he knows it will be him trying to fix things in mid-Atlantic, not some luckless mechanic.

If boating stays in the doldrums, will it be possible to find people to work on "difficult" boats? A friend who used to do engine work on any boat will now only work on centre-consol day fishing boats with outboard motors. He says he never wants to go into the typical motorboat engine bay ever again, not for any money. I also know of someone who sold his Trader because he couldn't find anyone who was willing to work on the engines where he lived.

 

[prv]

I think the big thing about Steve Dashew's boats is that the man has always sailed, and now drives his own design of boat, so he knows it will be him trying to fix things in mid-Atlantic

Or one of his customers. Hence standard equipment when you buy the boat includes an amazingly comprehensive set of spares - right up to a complete duplicate of all the engine sensors and electronics carefully boxed up and stowed in the basement. You get two or three sets of rebuild parts for each pump on board - plus a whole spare pump so that you can swap in a new one and then rebuild the old at your leisure. In the case of the freshwater system, the spare pump is already plumbed in so that you just have to turn a valve to engage it - as he says, nobody wants to be installing a new pump with their hair full of shampoo .

There's a series of emails posted on the site where a customer had a problem with the stabilisers. As part of diagnosing the problem, they wanted to swap the sensor connections to the left and right sides, but found that the controller deliberately used keyed plugs to ensure everything was in the correct socket. They improvised a connection, but the spares inventory on all the boats now includes a set of adaptor cables to let things be plugged in different combinations for troubleshooting. That's attention to detail!

Pete

 

[jfm]

Having tried out, and self maintained a bit, 20, 40, 60 +80 feet, I think 80 or so is where is starts getting easy. Standing e/room, and 3 corridors wide enough to walk between the 4 engines. Bilges you climb down into and crawl around in with enough height. A rudder compartment you can crawl across. Oil changes done by driving a remote pumping station, and so on. BUT, there is loads more to go wrong. I have 22 float switches submerged in sea or grey water, and there seems to be no such thing as a good quality one, so I'm 22x as likely to have to change one in any given year (I've done 5 so far, and boat has done 2 seasons). I love the Steve Dashew approach to all this

 

[TwoHooter]

Seriously though, this is driven by the market. Up to now customers have not really cared much about maintenance, either because they don't really intend to use their boats much or they expect to just make a phone call when something goes wrong. Steve Dashew is targeting a very specific market consisting of (a) people who intend to make long bluewater passages, and (b) wannabes who don't but like to think they could if they ever get round to it. Most people fall into category (b) which is the principal market for ocean trawler yachts. It's really only the (a) segment of the market where customers genuinely care about easy access for maintenance, and that's tiny.

But could a time come when the average customer looks at a boat she likes but turns and walks away simply because she can see that the maintenance is going to be a nightmare - and the boatbuilders start noticing this and do something about it? Personally I doubt it, but it would be nice if it happened.

 

[annageek]

Bilges you climb down into and crawl around in with enough height.

The fun thing about this is that the way you describe your bilges is the way I would describe our 'accommodation'! Hehe! Hasn't stopped us spending many a night on board though!

 

[David2452]

Recently have been doing a refit on a 38m boat, whilst many jobs are so much easier there are still ill conceived areas that were made more difficult to do than they need be, also just been trying to replace an immersion element on a 25m boat which was impossible with the calorifier in the position it had been installed (side entry up against the hull) so it's not all about size but equally about design. At the other end our little Antares 9 is a doddle, I reckon I could get the fuel tank out in about an hour with no damage to anything, engine room is a bit cramped for checking the usual stuff but even that would have been made easy by using the factory dipstick conversion package to place it on the stb side instead of port, design again.

 

[annageek]

Seriously though, this is driven by the market. Up to now customers have not really cared much about maintenance, either because they don't really intend to use their boats much or they expect to just make a phone call when something goes wrong. Steve Dashew is targeting a very specific market consisting of (a) people who intend to make long bluewater passages, and (b) wannabes who don't but like to think they could if they ever get round to it. Most people fall into category (b) which is the principal market for ocean trawler yachts. It's really only the (a) segment of the market where customers genuinely care about easy access for maintenance, and that's tiny.

But could a time come when the average customer looks at a boat she likes but turns and walks away simply because she can see that the maintenance is going to be a nightmare - and the boat builders start noticing this and do something about it? Personally I doubt it, but it would be nice if it happened.

It makes a lot of sense. Especially when people are looking to get maximum boat for their buck. We're tentatively in the market for the next boat (who isn't?), and I must admit, I am going to be (as sad as it may sound) thinking about things like access to service items and such. However, I don't know if it will really sway our decision at the end of the day, as we'd probably still go for a boat that's a PITA to service but a joy to use over anything else. Chances are, because we're looking at smaller that much of what has been described in this thread (Sealine S23 / Merry Fisher 755 are what we're trying to figure out which would suit us best) neither will truly be a breeze to work on all aspects of.

Still, if I change my mind and decide I do want something that's easy to service, I could always go for one of these

 

[thecommander]

I can see why people buy ribs.

 

[TwoHooter]

I can see why people buy ribs.

or these
View attachment 51703

 

[prv]

or these
View attachment 51703

A pedal-jetski

Pete