Hot Liquid stripped of RYA recognition
- Thread starter islandsailor
- Start date
awol
Well-known member
1st Fred the Shred, now Hot Liquid. Does this prelude an era of calling to account all those who profit from putting society at risk?
FishyInverness
New member
No-one's told their website manager yet!
http://www.hotliquid.co.uk/
http://www.hotliquid.co.uk/
jellyellie
New member
Wow.
Not a shock in the sense that they don't deserve it, but this is big news - they have a big presence in the Solent.
I wonder who will soak up their share of the market?
Not a shock in the sense that they don't deserve it, but this is big news - they have a big presence in the Solent.
I wonder who will soak up their share of the market?
Blue5
New member
Well done RYA
Flying Penguin
New member
Probably deserved and not at all unexpected, but still a shame. Had a few good trips with them.
I wonder if we will be seeing a very quick re-branding of their Gibraltar franchise?
I wonder if we will be seeing a very quick re-branding of their Gibraltar franchise?
RobbieW
Well-known member
Wonder what changed as the previous RYA statement suspended HLs licence pending the MCA investigation
flaming
Well-known member
Probably worth noting that none of the trips that had the incidents were RYA courses.
Removal of RYA recognition would not have prevented any of those trips setting sail quite legally.
penfold
Well-known member
I would surprised if there is not a swift rebranding followed by subbing actual RYA courses to individual instructors or other training firms; would anyone hazard a guess as to what the ratio was between charter/milebuilding/rya courses?
Flying Penguin
New member
@ flaming
Very true, but effective school-wide oversight to RYA standards (if that was indeed the problem) might have picked up "problem skippers" much earlier.
Then again, they might still have slipped through the net. Such is the issue for all schools, once the boat leaves the marina, you loose direct control and it only takes one error of judgement to potentially put them in harms way. You can reduce the risk, but never eliminate it.
Very true, but effective school-wide oversight to RYA standards (if that was indeed the problem) might have picked up "problem skippers" much earlier.
Then again, they might still have slipped through the net. Such is the issue for all schools, once the boat leaves the marina, you loose direct control and it only takes one error of judgement to potentially put them in harms way. You can reduce the risk, but never eliminate it.
fireball
New member
You're quite correct - but it doesn't look good on the RYA if one of their recognised schools has "serious safety issues" ... as an RYA member I am glad of their swift and decisive action.
Whilst I appreciate that there will always be a level of incidents and accidents there seems to be a degree of "wtf where they doing there?!" to at least 2 of their incidents - which just indicates a lack of experience/judgement by their skippers.
As the RYA Training manager says:
The RYA have not stopped HL from trading or even from training - although it will probably have a significant effect on both.
I don't want to see the end of HL - it has no bearing on me whatsoever - but there is one skipper who I believe should be stripped of his commercial endorsement.
I hope the good skippers can find work within the other schools in the solent - and the staff at HL manage to turn the operation around and convince the RYA that they have taken sufficient steps to warrant the RYA recognition once more.
maxi77
Active member
I suspect from the RYA release that there will need to be some changes in staff and management before they get back in the game. I suspect the loss of ticket does depend on the MCA report as that is a legal action. Whilst the passages were not formal courses would the punters have rolled up if there had not been an RYA endorsement.
I suspect all schools will be checking their safety process to make sure the are all OK.
Bosun Higgs
N/A
I wonder how this action fit in with the RYA policy, frequently expressed, that practical courses should not be stopped because of a gale. Indeed, they schedule instructor courses for the times of year when bad weather is more likely.
The PBO report of this particular incident did not read as badly as previous comments on here suggested .
The PBO report of this particular incident did not read as badly as previous comments on here suggested .
Blueboatman
Well-known member
I know many have come to the defence of the owner/manager stating that he is one of the good guys in the business. Let us hope that lessons have been learnt, three major incidents is just too many for me.
Would I take anyone-anyone- to sea in january in a forecast 9. Nope.
Would I take anyone-anyone- to sea in january in a forecast 9. Nope.
Flying Penguin
New member
Just checked the website, it seems to have been taken down and a placeholder withouth the letters "RYA" on it anywhere...
toad_oftoadhall
New member
If this is related to the last incident, what the hell did Hot Liquid do wrong?
Hot Liquid entrusted one of their charter boats to a delivery crew made up entirely of qualified RYA skippers and crew.
If anything shouldn't Hot Liquid are the victims in this and should be suing the RYA for giving these guys qualifications which Hot Liquid presumably took at face value.
Or do the RYA think the people on board were not sufficiently qualified to make a go-no go decision based on weather and needed Hot Liquid to make the call for them?
Or is the removal of "RYA recognition" nothing to do with that incident?
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
Its not just the last incident... its about their risk managment... that is clear from the RYA release.
The last incident is a sympton of the disease.....
They odviously did not have in place a robust and effective risk managment solution... (this was discussed on "The Thread") and the RYA clearly pulled their accreditation due to the lack of robust managment proceedures.
The last incident is a sympton of the disease.....
They odviously did not have in place a robust and effective risk managment solution... (this was discussed on "The Thread") and the RYA clearly pulled their accreditation due to the lack of robust managment proceedures.
awol
Well-known member
Or ......... Hot Liquid needed to get their boat to the Boat Show. To do this they used one of their skippers and crewed the boat with paying customers in the guise of mile building. There was owed a duty of care to the customers which, in my interpretation of the circumstances, was not well discharged by either the company or their employed skipper.
As to whether a RYA Day Skipper or Competent Crew course completion certificate gives sufficient authority for competent decision making on such a trip in such weather, I have my reservations.
toad_oftoadhall
New member
No dispute there.
What I'm missing is if I hire a qualified RYA crew to deliver a boat to somewhere, and they wreck it, how is it my fault?
If I hired a boat from Hot Liquid and wrecked it would it be their fault?
onesea
Well-known member
I would suggest;
If you charter out a boat you also have a responsibility to stop the clients sailing in extreme weather.
If you hired the skipper to take the crew you have even more responsibility to stop them sailing.
There should be in place a management system in place for this. Once upon a time it was called experience and common sense but these it seems have little place in a modern world..