Horizontal or Vertical?

[penberth3]

Must admit I’ve always thought it the wrong way round. To me it’s more intuitive to think of the gypsy’s orientation as the descriptor.

Fair enough. You have three parts, motor, gearbox and drum. Not necessarily co-axial, some parts can be 90 degrees to others on various combinations of X, Y, or Z axis. Simply saying horizontal or vertical is not clear.

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

Cable lifter? Disgraceful uncouth newfangled Americanism. What's wrong with capstan? Nelson, Drake and Bligh never ordered 'More men to the cable lifter'!

Tell that to Clarke Chapman It's what they called it and they don't come much more "British" than them
A capstan has a drum for winding a "Rope" round a cable lifter has a similar device as that fitted to a Gypsy. But the other way round!
PS New fangled is two words

 

[webcraft]

Not sure why you are asking such a basic question. "horizontal" means the axis is horizontal - at least that is the convention all the makers use as Poingard illustrates in his 2 posts.. Really surprised you cannot work that out for yourself.

Not everyone knows everything, so your comment was unnecessarily patronisong and rude, no?

— W

 

[dunedin]

Not sure why you are asking such a basic question. "horizontal" means the axis is horizontal - at least that is the convention all the makers use as Poingard illustrates in his 2 posts.. Really surprised you cannot work that out for yourself.

Like the OP I have always found this convention confusing, and as almost all windlasses have horizontal and vertical components, it is just a convention as to which aspect is treated as primary for naming purposes.
Consequently I need to look it up every time to be sure I have the right term.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

PS New fangled is two words

Oh dear, oh dear! No it isn't...

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words



I spotted that mistake on a packet of crisps a while ago, reported it to the manufacturer who sent me a full box in compensation. My nieces got to the box before me, and ate the lot!

 

[AngusMcDoon]

My original Maxwell windlass was vertical by their description. When we found ourselves permanently berthed in a Greek marina equipped with lazy lines we often needed to haul the line in with some strength. We then sold the windlass and bought another, with a chain gypsy and a rope capstan above. Again, their description

The language has changed, which I accept, as it's what languages do. My definition above is archaic, and just a bit of fun. Quick call these items with a rope drum but no gypsy a capstan, and then list vertical and horizontal axis windlasses...

Quick SpA - Products and Accessories for the Boating Industry - made in Italy

 

[rogerthebodger]

Never assume. Different people make different interpretations.

The interoperation aways suites the person making the assumption and is always against the person with a different opinion that you have

Just like the same word used with different meanings like the work Earth and Ground

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Like the OP I have always found this convention confusing, and as almost all windlasses have horizontal and vertical components, it is just a convention as to which aspect is treated as primary for naming purposes.

And there are vertical axis ones with a horizontal motor and bevel gears to give the 90 degree change in drive direction, and vertical axis ones with a vertical motor and an epicyclic gearbox to keep everything vertical.

On a practical note, a problem with the full vertical ones with a vertical motor is that when, inevitably, the shaft seal under the gypsy wears sea water will get into the gearbox and continue on down into the motor. Gearboxes can survive a bit is seawater as it's mostly the bearings that suffer and they are cheap and easy to replace. However, seawater in the motor is bad news. My experience of that scenario here...

Wet windlass woes

 

[Tranona]

Like the OP I have always found this convention confusing, and as almost all windlasses have horizontal and vertical components, it is just a convention as to which aspect is treated as primary for naming purposes.
Consequently I need to look it up every time to be sure I have the right term.

The original post asked about the convention - not whether it was right or wrong, or even confusing. a supplementary question was "what is a horizontal windlass". The next 2 posts answered both questions.

Both the convention and descriptions are both logical and used consistently by both manufacturers and in general usage. The working part of a windlass is the bit that pulls the chain and that can be either horizontal or vertical depending on the design. It is irrelevant whether the drive is horizontal or vertical as it can be either.

 

[vyv_cox]

And there are vertical axis ones with a horizontal motor and bevel gears to give the 90 degree change in drive direction, and vertical axis ones with a vertical motor and an epicyclic gearbox to keep everything vertical.

On a practical note, a problem with the full vertical ones with a vertical motor is that when, inevitably, the shaft seal under the gypsy wears sea water will get into the gearbox and continue on down into the motor. Gearboxes can survive a bit is seawater as it's mostly the bearings that suffer and they are cheap and easy to replace. However, seawater in the motor is bad news. My experience of that scenario here...

Wet windlass woes

I once had a similar problem with an electric toilet, although that had a close-coupled horizontal motor. Washing the motor out in fresh water on a French pontoon generated the expected puzzled looks, explained (to French people) when they saw our red ensign.

 

[PaulRainbow]

The original post asked about the convention - not whether it was right or wrong, or even confusing. a supplementary question was "what is a horizontal windlass". The next 2 posts answered both questions.

Both the convention and descriptions are both logical and used consistently by both manufacturers and in general usage. The working part of a windlass is the bit that pulls the chain and that can be either horizontal or vertical depending on the design. It is irrelevant whether the drive is horizontal or vertical as it can be either.

Judging from the posts in this thread, not everyone was aware what the convention is.

From post #4 "Not sure why you are asking such a basic question. " and "Really surprised you cannot work that out for yourself."

Both comments are rude and unhelpful. We could all say similar things about subject matter that we know and understand, in which case there would be no posts on here at all.

Post #29 is equally unhelpful.

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

Oh dear, oh dear! No it isn't...

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words



I spotted that mistake on a packet of crisps a while ago, reported it to the manufacturer who sent me a full box in compensation. My nieces got to the box before me, and ate the lot!

Isn't that American? Enough, Enough. The Maiden cried

 

[penberth3]

...The working part of a windlass is the bit that pulls the chain and that can be either horizontal or vertical depending on the design. It is irrelevant whether the drive is horizontal or vertical as it can be either.

Does that refer to the shaft or the drum/gypsy? They're at right angle to each other.

Clear description isn't as easy as you think it is!

 

[MontyMariner]

Enough, Enough. The Maiden cried

Gosh! That brings back memories of youth

 

[thinwater]

Being pedantic about it, there is no such thing as a vertical axis windlass, and 'horizontal windlass' is tautological. From the Wikipedia page on capstans...



I would have thought that any forum expert here would have known that.

The funny thing is that English can't be nailed down, despite the best efforts of the OED. Angus, you are clearly correct, but if you Google "vertical windlass + Lewmar" you get ... "VX1 Vertical Windlass."

Google "capstan + sail" and you get ... Old school stuff and nothing for small pleasure yachts.

Me ... ( ) (Sorry Norman. I just love this cartoon. I regularly get stumped by dumb questions, such as how to spell thru-hull. Search vendors and you will find at least 5 spellings, and I have no idea which one is "right," if there even is a right spelling. Sort of like Shakespeare.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Isn't that American? Enough, Enough. The Maiden cried

Touché, pussycat. I walked into that one. What I have just learned is that the newfangled is also a verb. I shall have to look for things I can newfangle...

Oxford English Dictionary

 

[AngusMcDoon]

The funny thing is that English can't be nailed down, despite the best efforts of the OED. Angus, you are clearly correct, but if you Google "vertical windlass + Lewmar" you get ... "VX1 Vertical Windlass."

Yes, the language has changed and the meaning drifted. It appears now that anything with a gypsy is a windlass, and a capstan only has a drum for rope - as well as being the big old wooden things on old ships as in your picture. Quick still use the term capstan for a rope only. I wonder what the distinction between capstan and winch now is (as they are effectively the same) - maybe just their usage.

PS Has anyone pointed out to the people around that capstan in the pic that the point of it is to haul in a line of some kind - which they seem to have missed!

 

[Babylon]

What's the second set of holes for? Tall people?

 

[Poignard]

What's the second set of holes for? Tall people?

Two speeds.

 

[Alan S]

Also should there not be a rope (for want of a better word) round the drum of the capstan?