penberth3
Well-Known Member
Fair enough. You have three parts, motor, gearbox and drum. Not necessarily co-axial, some parts can be 90 degrees to others on various combinations of X, Y, or Z axis. Simply saying horizontal or vertical is not clear.
Horizontal or Vertical?
- Thread starter NormanS
- Start date
Fair enough. You have three parts, motor, gearbox and drum. Not necessarily co-axial, some parts can be 90 degrees to others on various combinations of X, Y, or Z axis. Simply saying horizontal or vertical is not clear.
Alex_Blackwood
Well-Known Member
Tell that to Clarke ChapmanCable lifter? Disgraceful uncouth newfangled Americanism. What's wrong with capstan? Nelson, Drake and Bligh never ordered 'More men to the cable lifter'!
It's what they called it and they don't come much more "British" than them
A capstan has a drum for winding a "Rope" round a cable lifter has a similar device as that fitted to a Gypsy.
But the other way round!
PS New fangled is two words
webcraft
Well-Known Member
Not everyone knows everything, so your comment was unnecessarily patronisong and rude, no?
— W
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Like the OP I have always found this convention confusing, and as almost all windlasses have horizontal and vertical components, it is just a convention as to which aspect is treated as primary for naming purposes.
Consequently I need to look it up every time to be sure I have the right term.
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
PS New fangled is two words
Oh dear, oh dear! No it isn't...
Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words
I spotted that mistake on a packet of crisps a while ago, reported it to the manufacturer who sent me a full box in compensation. My nieces got to the box before me, and ate the lot!
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
The language has changed, which I accept, as it's what languages do. My definition above is archaic, and just a bit of fun. Quick call these items with a rope drum but no gypsy a capstan, and then list vertical and horizontal axis windlasses...
Quick SpA - Products and Accessories for the Boating Industry - made in Italy
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rogerthebodger
Well-Known Member
The interoperation aways suites the person making the assumption and is always against the person with a different opinion that you have
Just like the same word used with different meanings like the work Earth and Ground
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
And there are vertical axis ones with a horizontal motor and bevel gears to give the 90 degree change in drive direction, and vertical axis ones with a vertical motor and an epicyclic gearbox to keep everything vertical.
On a practical note, a problem with the full vertical ones with a vertical motor is that when, inevitably, the shaft seal under the gypsy wears sea water will get into the gearbox and continue on down into the motor. Gearboxes can survive a bit is seawater as it's mostly the bearings that suffer and they are cheap and easy to replace. However, seawater in the motor is bad news. My experience of that scenario here...
Wet windlass woes
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Tranona
Well-Known Member
The original post asked about the convention - not whether it was right or wrong, or even confusing. a supplementary question was "what is a horizontal windlass". The next 2 posts answered both questions.
Both the convention and descriptions are both logical and used consistently by both manufacturers and in general usage. The working part of a windlass is the bit that pulls the chain and that can be either horizontal or vertical depending on the design. It is irrelevant whether the drive is horizontal or vertical as it can be either.
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
I once had a similar problem with an electric toilet, although that had a close-coupled horizontal motor. Washing the motor out in fresh water on a French pontoon generated the expected puzzled looks, explained (to French people) when they saw our red ensign.
PaulRainbow
Well-Known Member
Judging from the posts in this thread, not everyone was aware what the convention is.
From post #4 "Not sure why you are asking such a basic question. " and "Really surprised you cannot work that out for yourself."
Both comments are rude and unhelpful. We could all say similar things about subject matter that we know and understand, in which case there would be no posts on here at all.
Post #29 is equally unhelpful.
Alex_Blackwood
Well-Known Member
Isn't that American? Enough, Enough. The Maiden criedOh dear, oh dear! No it isn't...
Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words
I spotted that mistake on a packet of crisps a while ago, reported it to the manufacturer who sent me a full box in compensation. My nieces got to the box before me, and ate the lot!
penberth3
Well-Known Member
Does that refer to the shaft or the drum/gypsy? They're at right angle to each other.
Clear description isn't as easy as you think it is!
MontyMariner
Well-Known Member
Gosh! That brings back memories of youth
thinwater
Well-Known Member
The funny thing is that English can't be nailed down, despite the best efforts of the OED. Angus, you are clearly correct, but if you Google "vertical windlass + Lewmar" you get ... "VX1 Vertical Windlass."Being pedantic about it, there is no such thing as a vertical axis windlass, and 'horizontal windlass' is tautological. From the Wikipedia page on capstans...
I would have thought that any forum expert here would have known that.
Google "capstan + sail" and you get ... Old school stuff and nothing for small pleasure yachts.
Me ... (
) (Sorry Norman. I just love this cartoon. I regularly get stumped by dumb questions, such as how to spell thru-hull. Search vendors and you will find at least 5 spellings, and I have no idea which one is "right," if there even is a right spelling. Sort of like Shakespeare.
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
Isn't that American? Enough, Enough. The Maiden cried
Touché, pussycat. I walked into that one. What I have just learned is that the newfangled is also a verb. I shall have to look for things I can newfangle...
Oxford English Dictionary
AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
Yes, the language has changed and the meaning drifted. It appears now that anything with a gypsy is a windlass, and a capstan only has a drum for rope - as well as being the big old wooden things on old ships as in your picture. Quick still use the term capstan for a rope only. I wonder what the distinction between capstan and winch now is (as they are effectively the same) - maybe just their usage.The funny thing is that English can't be nailed down, despite the best efforts of the OED. Angus, you are clearly correct, but if you Google "vertical windlass + Lewmar" you get ... "VX1 Vertical Windlass."
PS Has anyone pointed out to the people around that capstan in the pic that the point of it is to haul in a line of some kind - which they seem to have missed!
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Babylon
Well-Known Member
What's the second set of holes for? Tall people?
Poignard
Well-Known Member
Two speeds.
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Alan S
Well-Known Member
Also should there not be a rope (for want of a better word) round the drum of the capstan?
