Helicopter Rescue off Dover

[fireball]

I'm normally totally H&S rules adverse - when I was head of the dinghy section at the club we didn't introduce the "no sailing over Fx" rule that other clubs had ... I wanted to leave that decision to the (experienced) racing crews and the OOD/Patrol crew to discuss - after all, we've raced in a F7 with few problems - but if the wind was from the other direction we wouldn't have entertained going out.
However, I do think the company and employees/agents have a duty of care for guests - and HL have managed 3 incidents in a relatively short space of time - you could say that it's because they put so many sea miles in ... but it does make you question their policies!

 

[fireball]

Given at 1.30am he was showing 20knots.. (apparent?) Are we being a bit harsh here?

Are we fair weather sailors lynching someone because he got caught out?

If he had arrived succesfully would we have applauded and said that it was proof a modern AWB can take it??

Depends on his planned destination and arrival time ... it sounds as though he was going "all the way" ... and expected really strong winds ...

 

[awol]

Given at 1.30am he was showing 20knots.. (apparent?) Are we being a bit harsh here?

No. The forecast from every source was for at least force 10, the 20kts at 0130 was in line with the forecast, the "Tweet" confirms the skipper knew what was coming. I'd love to hear his justification for his actions.

 

[Sandyman]

Perhaps someone who uses twitter (what ever that is) could go on there & invite him to this forum to give us an explanation of his plans & intentions. Could be interesting.

 

[Spyro]

The gun ho attitude of the skipper looking forward to surfing downwind with a small amount of sail is fine to some extent in open deep water. The straights of Dover are no place to look forward to in 40+ knots of south westerly wind. It was HW Dover about 06:00 today and he would have experienced wind over tide early this morning.
Very very steep 5 meter short seas, sick crew, cold, exhaustion, boat going too fast even with small head sail, falling off each wave, probably water in the cockpit, heading for difficult navigation area just ahead of him and no one to help out.
Definitely the wrong call by the skipper and he had many hours advance warning and optional ports before hand.

Agreed. And in the dark with inexperienced crew!
The decision to go in the first place or to carry on when things got bad are down to the skipper. It's him that will carry the can and if there were any loss of life it would have been him who would face the concequences or courts. I don't believe there should have been any discussion about it as stated by a previous poster. By all means yes, a discussion about his decision but the decision is his. That's why he gets to where the hat.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Wonder if that fender on the stern rail made it to Ramsgate?

 

[PhillM]

Are we fair weather sailors lynching someone because he got caught out?
QUOTE]

I get be a fair weather sailor by taking note of the weather forcast!

Here is a link to the sinking, last year ...

http://www.thisiskent.co.uk/sailors...oodwin-Sands/story-11984911-detail/story.html

 

[Giblets]

I fancy there could be some "interesting" questions being asked by visitors to the Hot Liquid Sailing stand at the Boat Show (if they actually turn up!)

 

[Blueboatman]

Not a lynching but, lets see, its winter, its cold dark and rain really stings @F8 plus. No dodgers, no strong crew, not a cruising yacht, no real understanding or forethought IMO ( did I say IMO) that the parameters are all V marginal given the forecast and-probably- no real experience of the difference between a gale and a storm.
And this guy is a yachmaster?????

 

[Martin_J]

There seem to be a lot of early judgements here.. we don't know the facts yet of what failed on the boat.. I know there was seasickness... perhaps power did fail leaving the autohelm clutch still engaged (for example)... and in the dark...

If you don't know the ins and outs of all the systems on board things can get tricky...

Seems like they were making a reserved (not unusual) speed for that size boat... If they'd arrived safely we'd not be discussing this now.

Although like others have said - With a 'reducing' forecast wind I'm happy to sail... . whenever the forecast suggests an 'increasing' wind then I'm more concerned).

 

[Twister_Ken]

Maybe he could have parked up in the lee of Dungeness, and waited for the real nasties to blow through? Cook something hot, let people get their heads down for a few hours.

I stopped there once, to wait for tide, but not in those sorts of conditions, thanks very much. Maybe the swell rolls in around the headland making it untenable in a real blow?

 

[snooks]

Video from the RNLI

 

[sailorman]

There seem to be a lot of early judgements here.. we don't know the facts yet of what failed on the boat.. I know there was seasickness... perhaps power did fail leaving the autohelm clutch still engaged (for example)... and in the dark...

If you don't know the ins and outs of all the systems on board things can get tricky...

Seems like they were making a reserved (not unusual) speed for that size boat... If they'd arrived safely we'd not be discussing this now.

Although like others have said - With a 'reducing' forecast wind I'm happy to sail... . whenever the forecast suggests an 'increasing' wind then I'm more concerned).

If my A/h was engaged you would NOT turn the wheel

 

[savageseadog]

While I totally understand that attitude I am both proud and glad that they won't be. To draw the line between a deserving rescue and an undeserving one would, I suggest, need more wisdom than Solomon.

Charging or not could be decided using a forum poll? we could set the amount as well

 

[Blueboatman]

ST6000 can be forcibly over-riden by turning the wheel

So how many of the crew will be put off sailing for life now?

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

Dumb birds??

Last point, I live just outside Southampton. For the last three days the fields around us have been full of seagulls, taking shelter from the coming storm. If even dumb birds can see its unsafe to be at sea ......[/QUOTE]

Seagulls are far from dumb! One of the cleverest birds. Overlooking a school play ground I would notice that as soon as the teacher's whistle went they appeared ready to swoop on the discarded crisps! Regular as clockwork. Doesn't weaken your argument though.

 

[Robin]

Interesting from the video that the boat is apparently making ground under engine into the wind and sea before the tow is attached? Also there is another small vessel on the right of them apparently catching up?

 

[photodog]

http://www.rnlivideolibrary.org.uk/getvideo.aspx?vid=2p68uzxd

Try that..

 

[sailorman]

Video from the RNLI

the LB was called @ 05.30 ish.
that video it was daylight & the yacht had power
the LB skipper had great skill comming along side as he did & controlling the inisial tow.
also no 5m swell

 

[photodog]

Looks boisterous not mountainous......

They seem to have some shredding of the mainsail cover... but that fender is still on the back rail!

As mentioned... clearly under power... so looks like a crew failure not a engine...

I would have thought that a strong crew would have been able to handle those conditions....