GT 35

[dom]

I'm interested in why the comparison is wide of the mark. The materials are much the same, a lot of the equipment on the GT is sourced elsewhere - Lewmar winches, Beta engine etc. What, apart from low production volumes, makes it worth almost three times the cost of the Bavaria?

The new Rolls Royce Wraith costs about 2.5x the BMW 760, but shares basically the same chassis and engine. Both are great cars and the ride/power/driver experience is much the same. The Wraith, however, is burnished with fine leather, classy woodwork, beautiful instrumentation and heaps of bespoke add-ons.

Like the Wraith, GT-35 buyers can have Ikea interiors, antique walnut wine cabinets, leather chairs, or whatever takes their fancy. That is the point of bespoke luxury products

What I never understand is why people try to claim that such such boats have better sea-keeping qualities, are faster, safer, carry more sail to windward, and so on. This is simply nonsense, and every bit as silly as claiming that a Wraith would beat an M5 on a track, or leave a a Landrover defender standing when the terrain gets really rough!

 

[Vara]

Well given the choice, I'd have two bavarias, one west of Scotland and t'other La Rochelle, the change would take care of the commuting.

 

[snooks]

GT35, about £320K new....

Bavaria Cruiser 37, about £125K new....

Rolex sea-dweller about £8050 new....

Rotary Aquaspeed about £89 new...

 

[Moonshining]

Rolex sea-dweller about £8050 new....

Rotary Aquaspeed about £89 new...

Snooksy :love_heart: GT Yachts, cos they've got his photies in their gallery.

 

[Vara]

Rolex sea-dweller about £8050 new....

Rotary Aquaspeed about £89 new...

And arguably the Rotary is the better watch, as having a quartz movement will be a more accurate time keeper.

 

[snooks]

Snooksy :love_heart: GT Yachts, cos they've got his photies in their gallery.

They don't actually

 

[FullCircle]

Rolex sea-dweller about £8050 new....

Rotary Aquaspeed about £89 new...

But the Bavaria is not a chinese rip off of the GT.......

also, if you paid 89 quid you were duffed up. Mine was £45.

 

[doris]

I'm interested in why the comparison is wide of the mark. The materials are much the same, a lot of the equipment on the GT is sourced elsewhere - Lewmar winches, Beta engine etc. What, apart from low production volumes, makes it worth almost three times the cost of the Bavaria?

I really don't want to start the comparison all over again. It was done to death a couple of months ago but the first point was the self tappers holding the toe rail on. What is the use of having fairleads if they cannot be used. It was a Bav opposite me that had the rail ripped off in Brixham by a small amount of swell. I have since seen another in Torquay with the same damage.

Extrapolate this throughout the build and we have apple and pears. No comparison, the two boats do completely different jobs. It is a few years since I was in a Bav going uphill in a blow and I still not too keen to repeat it. The GT is a completely different matter. Simples.

Drifting slightly I struggle to why one would spend £125k on the new Bav cruiser when there are shedloads of nearly new, ie.less that 5 years old, robust boats out there for less.

 

[Moonshining]

They don't actually

Well, they've got a link back to the 360 virtual tour from your site on the GT35 page, anyway.

 

[pvb]

the teak deck on that bav is awful the detailing - well there isnt much detailing at all in fact & the interior is from B & Q kitchen dept on a sale day.

I completely agree that current Bavaria teak decks are unattractive - no margin boards, no king plank, not my idea of a teak deck at all. However, their fake teak looks much better, stays looking better and doesn't wear. After selling my HR because the deck was getting towards the end of its life, I didn't want another teak deck, so specified the fake variety.

 

[snooks]

Well, they've got a link back to the 360 virtual tour from your site on the GT35 page, anyway.

The 360 was produced for Yachting Monthly and it's hosted on my site.http://grahamsnook.com/ym/gt35

I do a 360 on every boat test I do, any mfg can link through to them.

And your point was? :0)

 

[pvb]

Drifting slightly I struggle to why one would spend £125k on the new Bav cruiser when there are shedloads of nearly new, ie.less that 5 years old, robust boats out there for less.

Some of us like to have a bright and shiny new boat, with exactly the spec we want. The HR352 I owned previously was the only secondhand boat I've ever bought (and I kept it for 19 years), and the new Bavaria is my 6th new boat.

But I still think most of us struggle to understand why one would spend £320K on the new GT35 when there are shedloads of both new and nearly new robust boats out there for less.

 

[doris]

But I still think most of us struggle to understand why one would spend £320K on the new GT35 when there are shedloads of both new and nearly new robust boats out there for less.

On this point I am in complete agreement. By the way the price of the GT is about £280k I believe. However the point is still valid. I struggle to understand why ANY new boats get sold today but then 'different strokes for different folks'.

I just wouldn't put put a Bav on the 'robust' list.

 

[pvb]

On this point I am in complete agreement. By the way the price of the GT is about £280k I believe. However the point is still valid. I struggle to understand why ANY new boats get sold today but then 'different strokes for different folks'.

I just wouldn't put put a Bav on the 'robust' list.

GT35-01 was for sale at £269,900 plus VAT, which is about £324K. See http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2014/GT-Yachts-GT35-2753325/United-Kingdom

The £125K price I suggested for the Bavaria Cruiser 37 was a similar spec to that of the GT35-01, but the Cruiser 37 prices start rather lower.

"Robust" is a difficult quality to quantify. If you look at displacement, the boats are similar weights, so the construction logically will be similarly strong. I haven't sailed a GT35, but I've just brought my new Bav 37 back from Devon, a trip of over 250 miles. Nothing fell off. The fairleads held up. There were no creaks and groans under way. It behaved impeccably. It's remarkably dry (I've only had the sprayhood up in port). It's quick and close-winded. It feels safe (though I haven't been out yet in more than F6). The German mainsheet system (as on the GT35) is a convenient feature and enhances safety. I'd still have difficulty in justifying another £200K.

 

[snooks]

But I still think most of us struggle to understand why one would spend £320K on the new GT35 when there are shedloads of both new and nearly new robust boats out there for less.

Do you struggle to understand why someone would pay extra to have something made for them rather than an off-the-shelf solution?

People with lots of money like to get bespoke items made for them. Why? Because they can. It's what they want.

If you don't get it you're not likely to be a customer, so you don't have to get it

Why would anyone spend more for something better? Because generally in life, as with boats, you get what you pay for.

 

[pvb]

Do you struggle to understand why someone would pay extra to have something made for them rather than an off-the-shelf solution?

People with lots of money like to get bespoke items made for them. Why? Because they can. It's what they want.

If you don't get it you're not likely to be a customer, so you don't have to get it

Why would anyone spend more for something better? Because generally in life, as with boats, you get what you pay for.

I do understand the attraction of a custom product, rather than an off-the-shelf product, but as far as I can see the GT35 is basically off-the-shelf, perhaps with a few more options available than the BenJenBav alternatives. It's certainly not what I'd term a bespoke product.

I do understand the concept of spending more for something better, indeed I've bought a couple of new Ferraris in the past, so I'm not averse to spending money on lovely things, and understand your theory of "you get what you pay for". It's just that I still can't see what the extra £200K buys in a GT35, and I suspect I'm not alone.

 

[Tranona]

Fortunately I'm unlikely ever to be in the market for a new boat, as I think this style is bloody ugly whoever it's made by

Hopefully I will be able to skip over this decade in future as it moves down the second-hand market.

Pete

Suspect when it comes onto the 20 year old used boat market, buyers will have as a reference point boats like this rather than 1980's types that disguised modern materials with lots of cheap wood to make them look like 1950s boats (and houses!).

Have a look at Sarah Beeney tonight and see what people are spending their money on with their home extensions. You will see and here the same design language used for today's boats (well some of them, anyway).

 

[snooks]

It's just that I still can't see what the extra £200K buys in a GT35, and I suspect I'm not alone.

The GT isn't custom, but you have more say and choice than your run of the mill builders.

So why did you by a Ferrari as opposed to something like a Toyota MR2 or a Caterham or a Mitsubishi EVO? Why does a Ferrari cost so much more than a Mazda MX5....

Look at the wood work on the GT35/Rustler/Contest et al, the way it fits together, the smoothness of it, the grain pattern, thickness and quality of wood itself. Then think of the time in man hours it takes to craft the boat together. Then think about expertise to craft that joinery none of it is cheap.

How long does a Bavaria sit in the mould? 1 day maybe 2, the moulding process for the Rustler takes 4-5 weeks. At Contest they allow their boats to cure in the mould for a month after vacuum infusing the hull.

So like the Ferrari most of the extra money goes into time, labour and materials, but you only get to see the last one, and in the case of the two+ tonnes of lead at the bottom of the keel you don't even get to see that.

 

[mrming]

People are arguing that the GT35 is not good value compared to the Ben / Jen / Bavs, but what about when compared to something like the Xc 35, a quality modern cruiser with plenty of configurable options?

I found a UK price of £157,000 for the Xc 35. I can't work out if that includes VAT or not, but say you need to add 20%, that's still £188,400 which is a lot less than £320k inc VAT for the GT35. What does the GT do that the Xc does not?

 

[rogerball0]

Plus the fact its manufactured by a firm (Windboats) who - from having seen and read their site - "uses modern machines and has one of the largest and most versatile CNC machines in use by any boatbuilder in East Anglia" makes the cost of this 'hand-built' GT ever more puzzling.