GREEK TRANSIT LOG ISSUE - IMPORTANT

[Mistroma]

Well all UK registered boats currently in Greece (assuming they were there midnight December 31st) are in that category.

I meant prior to that date when I thought the situation would be much less common and officials would not come across it on a daily basis. I suppose that I should have made that more obvious and said "I don't know if they were previously very common". I suspected that the majority of non-EU flagged boats owned by non-EU citizens might not be EU VAT paid.

 

[Mistroma]

I have been talking with the Greeks since Jan 2020, so lets hope they can get it together for us - I know they want to do this, and since the Trade agreement, have started looking at this - they know they need to do it for financial reasons. They dont need to negotiate with the FO as this is a unilateral agreement......

I think most people would be surprised if they don't manage to cook up something specific to Greece. I'd also bet most would be surprised if the solution doesn't turn out to involve forms, money and confusing or contradictory rules.

 

[Fil Brown]

We left the UK in 2018 with full VAT paid details and headed through Spain, Portugal, Italy and finally Greece last year. In October last year we went together Brindisi, Italy for the winter.
We returned via Othoni and Erikousa last week neither even bothered to check any papers.
Today (25-06-2021) we were told in no uncertain terms that we needed a TL despite never having left the EU.
All because we were in International waters for 6 hours between Italy and Greece we had been deemed to have left the EU.
The officer at Corfu customs wasn't very happy with our part 3 SSR as it didn't have our names, address, engine size, fuel tank etc.
So now we have a TL till December 2022 even though we should be unlimited. ?

 

[Star-Lord]

LOL Greece!

 

[Chris_Robb]

We left the UK in 2018 with full VAT paid details and headed through Spain, Portugal, Italy and finally Greece last year. In October last year we went together Brindisi, Italy for the winter.
We returned via Othoni and Erikousa last week neither even bothered to check any papers.
Today (25-06-2021) we were told in no uncertain terms that we needed a TL despite never having left the EU.
All because we were in International waters for 6 hours between Italy and Greece we had been deemed to have left the EU.
The officer at Corfu customs wasn't very happy with our part 3 SSR as it didn't have our names, address, engine size, fuel tank etc.
So now we have a TL till December 2022 even though we should be unlimited. ?

Refuse the TL. You have not left the EU under article 155 which deals with passages out side the eu waters in transit between Eu areas.
They should ring Piraeus head customs office.
If you have to have one insist on the Unllimited one. But you should not be given one.

The EU commission now had the final correspondence from the Greeks, I should get it by next week.

Join the CA and you get info as it happens

 

[Chris_Robb]

Article 155 - Union goods leaving the customs territory of the Union temporarily
1. In the cases referred to in points (b) to (f) of Article 227(2), goods shall keep their customs status as Union goods only if that status is established under certain conditions and by means laid down in the customs legislation.
2. In specific cases, Union goods may move, without being subject to a customs procedure, from one point to another within the customs territory of the Union and temporarily out of that territory without alteration of their customs status.

 

[wwalsh]

Piraeus incorrectly told one of my clients that he needs a greek tax number to get an unlimited transit log. He purchased the yacht vat paid in greece reflagged it from greek to uk and it never left the EU so I understand he does not need a TL anyway.

 

[timdawson]

I bought a yacht in Kos in May 2021. The yacht had been in Kos (hence the EU) since it was built in 2017 in France and then sailed to Kos. The boat was VAT paid on purchase and the sale contract clearly stated that the purchase price I paid include the VAT. The boat should therefore be entitled to a permanent transit log. However despite numerous discussions with the Customs they insist I need a transit log which in only valid for 18 months. How do I get the Customs to accept that the boat is entitled to a permanent transit log? Any ideas?

 

[Chris_Robb]

I bought a yacht in Kos in May 2021. The yacht had been in Kos (hence the EU) since it was built in 2017 in France and then sailed to Kos. The boat was VAT paid on purchase and the sale contract clearly stated that the purchase price I paid include the VAT. The boat should therefore be entitled to a permanent transit log. However despite numerous discussions with the Customs they insist I need a transit log which in only valid for 18 months. How do I get the Customs to accept that the boat is entitled to a permanent transit log? Any ideas?

Tim. Here's the rub.
I presume that you have the original Vat invoice - in the name of the original owner? If so, the head of Rhodes customs (the one that controls the East Aegean) has this weird notion that you may have had VAT repaid, and therefore the invoice must be in your name.

Now the rub here is that it may just be another way of them actually saying - you dont need any Transit Log till you leave and return to Greece. This would in my view be correct - following the official announcement that there should be NO Customs Formalities for UK Flagged yachts until they leave and return to the EU.

So you just dont need one.

But I understand the desire to get one, as it gives you something in writing that the Greeks accept your Vat status especially if you visit and return from Turkey. You have to claim RGR under the rules (incorrect) that the Greeks apply as EU Law says "to claim RGR, you self declared by crossing the EU Boundaries."

Your recourse now is only to email the Kos customs stating that you want a written response to why you have been refused a UTL. On receipt of that, you should then, if you still disagree, forward the email to the AADE to GDcustoms@aade.com, with a copy to k.mourtidis@aade.gr (head of Customs) together with the gist of your disagreement. I suspect the only reply you will get is that you don't need a TL of any sort.
So you may just have to follow this procedure on returning from Turkey if you do need help - as you may rightfully then.
So if you really get stuck, you need to leave greece for any EU Country shouting to yourself that you have claimed RGR having crossed the border! And then you return to Greece and you have never left the EU - then you can follow this complaints procedure.

It completely Nuts.
For UK Yachts it may be possible to get a letter from HMRC stating that you are Vat paid and no refunds have been made - and indeed the CA is trying to formalise that procedure right now. But with French Vat - I am not sure what you do. This is I believe a stupidity by the head of Rhodes Customs and it may be overturned soon - I have a complaint in - they wont talk to me directly now the EU Commission complaint is closed.........

 

[timdawson]

GREEK TRANSIT LOG ISSUE - IMPORTANT
There is a requirement to all yachts of 3rd Countries to have a transit Log - that is us! It is not a surprise and has been raised here during last summer.
There are 2 types of Transit Log (TL), the time limited one - 18 months for Temporary Admission (TA) to NON vat paid yachts, and the UNLIMITED Transit Log (UTL) for those with VAT Paid.
The email below comes from Irene at Moor and Dock in Leros. She is being extremely helpful and its a bargain.
Here it is:-
Greetings from Leros and I hope you are well and keeping safe. I wish you a Happy, healthy and prosperous New Year!
I would like to inform you that since the UK left officially the EU there have been some changes regarding the procedures for your staying in Greece. From this year, beginning from now, you should get a Transit Log from the Customs Authorities which you must have with you while you are sailing. When you lift out your boat for winter or any other period during the year you should deliver the Transit Log to the Customs in order to ‘freeze’ the time that the boat is not in the water. The duration of the Transit Log is 18 months, that means you can sail in Greek waters for 18 months and if you follow the procedure I mentioned above, you will be able to sail in Greek waters for much longer until you use all 18 months. I can give you more information and explain to you again the whole procedure when you come to Leros.
As I have been informed from the Customs, you should get a new Transit Log now because since the UK is officially out of the EU, your boat is considered now as a non-EU boat which must have a Transit Log based on the greek law therefore it is not possible to do it later, i.e. when you arrive in spring/summer 2021. After I discussed with them about this new situation and since it is not possible for you to travel now to Greece in order to get a new Transit Log, we agreed that we can do the whole procedure and paperwork for you.
All I need is to send me an authorization by email saying that you allow us to make and fill in all the necessary documents in order to get a Transit Log on your behalf.
Please see below how you should write your authorization so I will be able to prepare your documents and take them to the Customs office. Please send me this on a new email so I can print it separately.

“I, …..(your full name), Passport no….., Owner of S/Y …..(name of your boat), authorize Mr. Antonis Charinos to make all the necessary procedures and fill in the necessary paperwork in order to get a new Transit Log from the Customs office of Leros on my behalf.”

Also, I need to forward me a copy of your new Passports because the ones we have in our records are expired.
Please note that we kindly request to send us the amount of 40,00€ which is the cost for the new Transit Log (30€ for the Transit Log book and 10€ for the procedure) in order to proceed.

I have number of issues with this, as this has been the subject of discussion with the Greeks since last June where we issue a report to the Greeks (with the help of Lachlan Calendar - an Australian member of the CA with TL experience)
The Greek AADE (Vat section) has now , since the end of the Trade talks, formed a working group to address all the issues relating to Vat, the Transit Log, and export and re-entry of UK yachts with Vat paid status into Greek waters. The aim is to get a full set of instructions out to all uK owners in Greek and English. It will aim to get everyone signing off the same sheet.
I have sent my contact in the AADE the email, and already have a called booked with her on Thursday. I will determine what we need to say to Moor and Dock after that call. I would hate to see a wild goose chase!

I am hoping we can write back to Leros to say it is all delayed....

I will update you all as soon as I have more news.

Join The CA.......! We do more to help Cruisers than other organisations - no names mentioned!

Chris
Have you resolved this problem? If the boat was in EU waters at midnight on 31 December 2020 you should be entitled to a permanent Transit Log. Mine was but so far have failed to get any joy from the Customs. Have you had more luck than me?

Tim

 

[Chris_Robb]

Tim, the Grreks have said, no transit log is required for us provided we do not leave EU waters. This there means you should not be issued with a TL at all.

But....

Because it was so badly managed we lost trust and wanted belt and braces. Hence we ask for a UTL.

So, there is no need to apply.

Any TL requires you to report in and out of ports. This is not universally enforced, and not doing it may land you in trouble. Its part of the joys of sailing in Greece.

This is a problem for some who left EU Waters...... the Greeks agree the principle of RGR, but have not properly informed their authorities, especially those in the eastern Aegean.

The CA is still pursuing a solution(s)

 

[wwalsh]

i know someone with TL who didnt report in when leaving athens for aegina and then came back to the same athens marina. the port police were going to fine him 5000 or something but after messing with him for a few days they didnt fine him.

 

[timdawson]

Chris Robb
I tried the email address you posted, GDcustoms@aade.com, but the email has bounced back. Is there another email address?

 

[Mistroma]

Chris Robb
I tried the email address you posted, GDcustoms@aade.com, but the email has bounced back. Is there another email address?

Have you tried GDcustoms@aade.gr? Just a stab in the dark but at least that email address does exist whereas GDcustoms@aade.com doesn't. The Greek government operates aade.gr and heaven knows who runs aade.com.

I hope that is of some help. Probably just a typo when Chris posted that address.

 

[Fil Brown]

We left the UK in 2018 and sailed through all EU countries till we arrived in Greece in mid 2020. We wintered in Brindisi and returned to Greece in early May 2021.
After arriving at Gouvia we were told we were required to get a TL despite never having left the EU. Our proof of VAT paid (original receipt, T2L and marina bills etc) made no difference and we were told we would not be allowed to leave Gouvia until we got a TL.
This TL is nothing but a complete pain in neck, every port we arrive at we have to hunt out the port police and get this thing stamped. Some port police require copies of everything including Covid certificates, crew lists and our ships log, others stare at you wondering why you are there at all and wave you away. Some port police tell us one thing only to have it contradicted at the next one, and we've been threatened with fines after following one port police's advice having turned up at another.
We heard that Lefkas customs were on the ball and were up to date on the situation so we called in there only to find that they couldn't do anything. Once we had been given this TL they were unable to remove it.
So the situation remains the same going into 2022 with no hope of getting this resolved. ?

 

[Star-Lord]

Easier life elsewhere.

 

[Fil Brown]

But not the views. ?

 

[sailaboutvic]

But not the views. ?

Fil you probably be better off asking questions on the site you normally do as there many there who have answers , there are only few here who are awhere if the problems in Greece,
One person who maybe able to help is Chris Robb's

 

[citybubble101]

Looking to bring this post up to the top as we haven't managed to get a UTL as yet and not sure what the process (if there is one) now is?? anyone made any significant progress?

 

[Chris_Robb]

Looking to bring this post up to the top as we haven't managed to get a UTL as yet and not sure what the process (if there is one) now is?? anyone made any significant progress?

If you have not been out of EU Waters and can prpve you were in EU waters on 31st Dec 2020, then:
YOU DO NOT NEED A TRANSIT LOG.....

Hopefully in the next few weeks the AADE Customs lot will publish a full overview of the requirement for 3rd Country Flagged yachts, AND they are doing seminars for ALL their Custims Officers. I am waiting for the draft instructions - if I am allowed to see them - so that I can make sure they have included all the scenarios i sent to them for inclusion. They dont want another year like last year......