Are Balmar alternators worth the money-expanded question

[pauldowrick]

Morning All,

I thought I would post a new and expanded question as my last question was too vague.

I currently have a Ford transit engine on my boat with a very old alternator that is slowly failing.

I have three Victron lithium batteries for house, and a new lead acid for the engine.

My wish is to install a new smart alternator that will be connected directly to the house batteries.

I will then use the Victron Orion DCDC charger to provide up to 30 A for the lead acid engine battery.

I have already purchased the Zeus charge controller and just need a smart alternator of about 120 A.

So back to the original question, is Balmar worth the additional cost, or are there other alternators that are better?

 

[rotrax]

Any large capacity alternator with a 'smart regulator' will work.

My direct experience is of two Balmar 110 A Alternators with the Balmar smart regulators. These are OE on Island Packet Yachts.

Apart from some belt dust/slip issues with the standard vee belts, cured by using genuine Gates belts with notched inners and careful belt tensioning, the Balmar Alternators and smart regulators have been without issue. Fifteen years total use on two well used vessels.

Balmar Alternators are finished with a corrosion inhibiting paint, apart from that they appear normal externally.

Good products, very reliable.

 

[GHA]

One other thing to think about, probably a good idea to get some kind of fan installed as well to keep the alternator cool when it's pushing out those serious currents into LiFePo4.

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

Morning All,

I thought I would post a new and expanded question as my last question was too vague.

I currently have a Ford transit engine on my boat with a very old alternator that is slowly failing.

I have three Victron lithium batteries for house, and a new lead acid for the engine.

My wish is to install a new smart alternator that will be connected directly to the house batteries.

I will then use the Victron Orion DCDC charger to provide up to 30 A for the lead acid engine battery.

I have already purchased the Zeus charge controller and just need a smart alternator of about 120 A.

So back to the original question, is Balmar worth the additional cost, or are there other alternators that are better?

Am I missing something or have you got that the wrong way round? Should you not be using the alt. to charge the L.A. battery and the DC-DC to charge the L-Ion ?

 

[geem]

Morning All,

I thought I would post a new and expanded question as my last question was too vague.

I currently have a Ford transit engine on my boat with a very old alternator that is slowly failing.

I have three Victron lithium batteries for house, and a new lead acid for the engine.

My wish is to install a new smart alternator that will be connected directly to the house batteries.

I will then use the Victron Orion DCDC charger to provide up to 30 A for the lead acid engine battery.

I have already purchased the Zeus charge controller and just need a smart alternator of about 120 A.

So back to the original question, is Balmar worth the additional cost, or are there other alternators that are better?

How will you deal with a high voltage event on the lithium when the alternator is charging? The diodes will blow when the BMS disconnects

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

How will you deal with a high voltage event on the lithium when the alternator is charging? The diodes will blow when the BMS disconnects

See #4 ?

 

[lustyd]

Am I missing something or have you got that the wrong way round? Should you not be using the alt. to charge the L.A. battery and the DC-DC to charge the L-Ion ?

With a setup like this it’s better this way around. The smart part of the alternator will prevent damage due to heat and disconnects, allowing the alternator to directly charge the lithium bank and give full speed charging. The B2B then delivers a lower charge to the engine battery.
Got to get it right though, lots of potential mistakes to be made in such a setup so most of us set up the other way, making that the “normal” way around despite being limited in a number of ways.

 

[geem]

See #4 ?

He is connecting the alternator to the lithium not the engine battery.

 

[GHA]

Am I missing something or have you got that the wrong way round? Should you not be using the alt. to charge the L.A. battery and the DC-DC to charge the L-Ion ?

DC-DC is an relatively cheap & easy way to lower normal high alternator voltage to suit LiFePo4 but at quite low currents unless you pay loads, he already has a smart regulator to do that so can make use of far more current from the alternator.

 

[pauldowrick]

Am I missing something or have you got that the wrong way round? Should you not be using the alt. to charge the L.A. battery and the DC-DC to charge the L-Ion

 

[pauldowrick]

The alternator is 170a. 140 of that will go to the lion, the remaining 30 will go to the la.

If it was connected the other way around the lion co7ld only ever get 30a via the Orion;, and the la would be over powered

 

[pauldowrick]

He is connecting the alternator to the lithium not the engine battery.

That is correct. Lots of mistakes are possible so I am using the ARCO Zeus external regulator. And, la 12V + will be run using yellow cables to differentiate them from the red lion +

 

[geem]

That is correct. Lots of mistakes are possible so I am using the ARCO Zeus external regulator. And, la 12V + will be run using yellow cables to differentiate them from the red lion +

Are you connecting the Zeus to the lithium battery BMS, such that a HVE will shut down the alternator before diode damage?

 

[pauldowrick]

Are you connecting the Zeus to the lithium battery BMS, such that a HVE will shut down the alternator before diode damage?

Not sure I understand the question

 

[geem]

Not sure I understand the question

How do you protect the alternator from a high voltage event occurring withi the BMS? Such as over charging. A single cell being out of balance and at a high voltage than the other cells, such that the BMS does a safety shutdown? When this happens, your alternator diodes will likely blow

 

[Trident]

At the very least it sounds like an "alternator saver" should be added in to protect the alternator

You might also look at Prestolite alternators which are also very good but I think a little less costly than Balmar

My cat has two 125a alternators and each has a 60a DCDC to charge the lithium via the LA start batteries - If I wanted more I could parallel more DCDC but I thought around 50% of max alternator output was a sensible level to keep things cool and lasting for a long time . You are not just limited to 30 a DCDC if you charge the LifePo via the LA as is more conventional these days

 

[lektran]

Victron smart lithiums have an external BMS. They don't perform shutdowns themselves, instead they direct charge sources to shutdown. Of course the onus is on the installer to wire it up correctly but it's straightforward enough once you understand it.

I use a balmar xt170 with their regulator. The BMS charge disconnect signal is connected to a victron smart switch (solid state relay) which disconnects the ignition signal to the alternator which turns it off without a load dump.

 

[pauldowrick]

As far as I am aware, the Zeus does that.

 

[geem]

Victron smart lithiums have an external BMS. They don't perform shutdowns themselves, instead they direct charge sources to shutdown. Of course the onus is on the installer to wire it up correctly but it's straightforward enough once you understand it.

I use a balmar xt170 with their regulator. The BMS charge disconnect signal is connected to a victron smart switch (solid state relay) which disconnects the ignition signal to the alternator which turns it off without a load dump.

Exactly. This is the kind of solution that is high end and expensive. Its one of the reasons why we don't direct alternator charge the lithium.

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

With a setup like this it’s better this way around. The smart part of the alternator will prevent damage due to heat and disconnects, allowing the alternator to directly charge the lithium bank and give full speed charging. The B2B then delivers a lower charge to the engine battery.
Got to get it right though, lots of potential mistakes to be made in such a setup so most of us set up the other way, making that the “normal” way around despite being limited in a number of ways.

OK got it! I am still on a learning curve for Lithium. Everyday is a school day!