GREEK TRANSIT LOG ISSUE - IMPORTANT

[citybubble101]

If you have not been out of EU Waters and can prpve you were in EU waters on 31st Dec 2020, then:
YOU DO NOT NEED A TRANSIT LOG.....

Hopefully in the next few weeks the AADE Customs lot will publish a full overview of the requirement for 3rd Country Flagged yachts, AND they are doing seminars for ALL their Custims Officers. I am waiting for the draft instructions - if I am allowed to see them - so that I can make sure they have included all the scenarios i sent to them for inclusion. They dont want another year like last year......

Totally! we were asked for a TL a few times, then in places got told that we didn't need it if we were not outside of Greek waters but this year we are planning a trip to Turkey, so i think inevitably, we will need one. We were on the hard (in Greece) on the 31st of Dec in 2020 so also unsure if this qualifies as being "In EU waters" or that we "can prove" it.
Please do let us know if you get anything new on this.. Trying to plan for this year is difficult without all the red tape that this brings.
Thanks
PS. if you need any help with translating Greek, I could be of assistance.

 

[Fil Brown]

Despite not needing a TL we still have ours we seem to be unable to get rid of it.
Lefkas customs agree that we should never have had one but cannot cancel it.
It's becoming a real pain.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Totally! we were asked for a TL a few times, then in places got told that we didn't need it if we were not outside of Greek waters but this year we are planning a trip to Turkey, so i think inevitably, we will need one. We were on the hard (in Greece) on the 31st of Dec in 2020 so also unsure if this qualifies as being "In EU waters" or that we "can prove" it.
Please do let us know if you get anything new on this.. Trying to plan for this year is difficult without all the red tape that this brings.
Thanks
PS. if you need any help with translating Greek, I could be of assistance.

You will need one but only when you return from Turkey. We hope that the Rhodes little Hitler will have been castrated by then, at least that is what we have asked to happen to him. We have had big arguements! It's the that you need you papers in order including a letter from your yard confirming you were there on 31st Dec 2020.

 

[Sfalkner]

My boat was in Greece on 31.12.2020 for which I have documentary proof. I launched on 2nd April this year in Preveza and arrived yesterday in Kalamata. The Port Police asked for my Transit Log. When I told them I do not need one they sent me to the Customs who insisted I buy a TL (18 months). I pointed out AADE regulation E2050 and E2067 but they just insisted I buy a TL. Eventually I gave up, after 2 hours of animated discussion, paid the €35 and got a TL. Returned to the Port Police who now say I must return tomorrow when I will pay a fine (of up to €2000 but likely to be much less) for not having a TL. Any advice on who to contact? Thanks in advance. Simon

 

[citybubble101]

My boat was in Greece on 31.12.2020 for which I have documentary proof. I launched on 2nd April this year in Preveza and arrived yesterday in Kalamata. The Port Police asked for my Transit Log. When I told them I do not need one they sent me to the Customs who insisted I buy a TL (18 months). I pointed out AADE regulation E2050 and E2067 but they just insisted I buy a TL. Eventually I gave up, after 2 hours of animated discussion, paid the €35 and got a TL. Returned to the Port Police who now say I must return tomorrow when I will pay a fine (of up to €2000 but likely to be much less) for not having a TL. Any advice on who to contact? Thanks in advance. Simon

I have tried to find the contact details of the person at AADE that helped me with this scenario in Pylos last year but haven't been able to.. I am going off memory and googling, her name is Mrs.Karahaliou, the central telephone number for that department is +30 210 3375079. Call them first thing tomorrow. I would suggest you also send an email to them also (to cover all basis) vat-customs@aade.gr.
show them this article too: Ε. 2119/2021: Παροχή οδηγιών σχετικά με την αντιμετώπιση ιδιωτικών σκαφών αναψυχής με σημαία Ηνωμένου Βασιλείου μετά την έξοδο του Η.Β. από την Ε.Ε. | Forin.gr its signed by the General manager of AADE.
Best of luck

 

[Sfalkner]

I have tried to find the contact details of the person at AADE that helped me with this scenario in Pylos last year but haven't been able to.. I am going off memory and googling, her name is Mrs.Karahaliou, the central telephone number for that department is +30 210 3375079. Call them first thing tomorrow. I would suggest you also send an email to them also (to cover all basis) vat-customs@aade.gr.
show them this article too: Ε. 2119/2021: Παροχή οδηγιών σχετικά με την αντιμετώπιση ιδιωτικών σκαφών αναψυχής με σημαία Ηνωμένου Βασιλείου μετά την έξοδο του Η.Β. από την Ε.Ε. | Forin.gr its signed by the General manager of AADE.
Best of luck

Hello Citybubble. I am very grateful to you for that info. I will try them tomorrow.

 

[Chris_Robb]

My boat was in Greece on 31.12.2020 for which I have documentary proof. I launched on 2nd April this year in Preveza and arrived yesterday in Kalamata. The Port Police asked for my Transit Log. When I told them I do not need one they sent me to the Customs who insisted I buy a TL (18 months). I pointed out AADE regulation E2050 and E2067 but they just insisted I buy a TL. Eventually I gave up, after 2 hours of animated discussion, paid the €35 and got a TL. Returned to the Port Police who now say I must return tomorrow when I will pay a fine (of up to €2000 but likely to be much less) for not having a TL. Any advice on who to contact? Thanks in advance. Simon

Pm sent

 

[Sfalkner]

Thanks for your reply. My boat was built in Italy in 1974 and has remained in the EU ever since. Therefore, my understanding is that she is considered VAT paid in the EU.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Thanks for your reply. My boat was built in Italy in 1974 and has remained in the EU ever since. Therefore, my understanding is that she is considered VAT paid in the EU.

That is correct
I will need to forward your comments to the Head of the AADE customs AND then call them.

There is a problem in that under the 2014 law, the TL IS required for a 3rd country flagged yacht.. it's a disconnect between the Hellenic Coastguard and Customs.... the matter should have been resolved by now. But Kalamata.... it's parr for the course......

I will send today

 

[Sfalkner]

Thank you very much, Chris.

 

[citybubble101]

Thank you very much, Chris.

How did you get on?

 

[Mistroma]

That is correct
I will need to forward your comments to the Head of the AADE customs AND then call them.

There is a problem in that under the 2014 law, the TL IS required for a 3rd country flagged yacht.. it's a disconnect between the Hellenic Coastguard and Customs.... the matter should have been resolved by now. But Kalamata.... it's parr for the course......

I will send today

Chris, are you saying that a UK flagged yacht does still need a TL and the law hasn't been changed yet? I thought that had been sorted out.

I remember the PP in Gythion being very pro-active. Several visits, papers collected in pouring rain, multiple reminders to pay fees (we'd already paid ). Not planning to go down to Kalamata this year but hope PP in N & S Ionian are less troublesome.

I'm hoping to be in Preveza in a few days but last time I checked Easyjet had cancelled 5 flights out of 6. I'm hoping to sort out my documentation with some trips to Vonitsa (using my Irish passport), Messolonghi (my wife's UK passport) and letter from the yard stating my boat has been there since 2019 to avoid TL.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Chris, are you saying that a UK flagged yacht does still need a TL and the law hasn't been changed yet? I thought that had been sorted out.

I remember the PP in Gythion being very pro-active. Several visits, papers collected in pouring rain, multiple reminders to pay fees (we'd already paid ). Not planning to go down to Kalamata this year but hope PP in N & S Ionian are less troublesome.

I'm hoping to be in Preveza in a few days but last time I checked Easyjet had cancelled 5 flights out of 6. I'm hoping to sort out my documentation with some trips to Vonitsa (using my Irish passport), Messolonghi (my wife's UK passport) and letter from the yard stating my boat has been there since 2019 to avoid TL.

No, in this case, the customs at Kalamta balls up barley, and because they insisted that a TL was Issued, the Port police reluctantly charged the fine. In this case €150.

But it serves as a wake up call for the AADE to get their officers trained following publication of the TL overview which is expected soon. I am informed that all customs officers will be put through a seminar so that this year the rules ate clear, no TL required for those remaining in the EU, instructions to replace 18th month TLS where incorrectly issued..... etc.
Hopefully my draft for them will not have been discarded, but my content used.

 

[Chris_Robb]

How did you get on?

Sent emails today. Will call tomorrow.

 

[Sfalkner]

Many thanks to Chris for chasing this up with the Customs. This will not get me my €150 back but let’s hope it will hasten the training required. Both the Customs and Port Police in Kalamata have no concept of the modus operandi of we cruising sailors. They seem to think that the purpose of the TL is to show precisely where all yachts are on every day. So they would expect us to check in and out of a port each day. (Check out of Preveza, sail 10 miles to Levkas, check in there, spend the night then check out etc). When I said that we often stop at small harbours with no Port Police or anchor in bays they said that we then must not go ashore. They need to work out for themselves what the purpose of the TL is. If they want to track every yacht in Greek waters every day then they had better employ a few thousand more PP and patrol boats. My feeling is that Kalamata is not very used to visiting yachts and that other places more accustomed to them have a different interpretation of the rules. It has left a nasty taste in my mouth and I will not be visiting Kalamata in the near future. Finally, we should understand that it is the customs (AADE) who decide on the necessity for a yacht to have a TL and to issue it and the Port Police to enforce and monitor the policy. The Port Police in Kalamata were apologetic, professional and courteous. The customs were different…

 

[citybubble101]

Many thanks to Chris for chasing this up with the Customs. This will not get me my €150 back but let’s hope it will hasten the training required. Both the Customs and Port Police in Kalamata have no concept of the modus operandi of we cruising sailors. They seem to think that the purpose of the TL is to show precisely where all yachts are on every day. So they would expect us to check in and out of a port each day. (Check out of Preveza, sail 10 miles to Levkas, check in there, spend the night then check out etc). When I said that we often stop at small harbours with no Port Police or anchor in bays they said that we then must not go ashore. They need to work out for themselves what the purpose of the TL is. If they want to track every yacht in Greek waters every day then they had better employ a few thousand more PP and patrol boats. My feeling is that Kalamata is not very used to visiting yachts and that other places more accustomed to them have a different interpretation of the rules. It has left a nasty taste in my mouth and I will not be visiting Kalamata in the near future. Finally, we should understand that it is the customs (AADE) who decide on the necessity for a yacht to have a TL and to issue it and the Port Police to enforce and monitor the policy. The Port Police in Kalamata were apologetic, professional and courteous. The customs were different…

Thanks for taking the time to respond

 

[tudorsailor]

Can I ask why you (Sfalkner) reported to the PP in Kalamata? AS you did not have one what made you go them

Is there a conclusion to this saga? Were you fined?

I ask as we are soon to follow you from Lefkas, via Kalamata and then onto Cyprus and Israel. I still do not have it clear as to when I will get the UTL or fined or both
I am a member of the CA so hope for Chris's help there!
TS

 

[Sfalkner]

As soon as we tied up at the port in Kalamata, the PP visited and asked me to take my docs to their office which is quite normal in larger ports. It had happened previously at other ports on the way south but I was never asked to produce a TL. The PP at Kalamata listened to my reason for not having a TL then explained that the Customs would need to rule on whether or not I needed one. The PP sent me to the customs, keeping my docs, and I had to return to the PP once the customs had delivered their verdict. In effect I therefore could not leave until I complied with the customs (who insisted that I must have a TL) and bought a TL (18 month). Once I returned to the PP with my TL the PP fined me for arriving illegally at Kalamata. There was a lot of paperwork, taking statements etc and I was fined €300 reduced to €150 for paying within a month. Now, in theory, I have to check in and out at every port I where there is a PP presence. I also have to lodge my TL with the customs when I return to the U.K. Chris was most helpful and has told me that he has taken up the case. Perhaps I should leave it to him to bring us up to date. Good luck but my advice is that it might be worth giving Kalamata a miss! Simon

 

[Mistroma]

As soon as we tied up at the port in Kalamata, the PP visited and asked me to take my docs to their office which is quite normal in larger ports. It had happened previously at other ports on the way south but I was never asked to produce a TL. The PP at Kalamata listened to my reason for not having a TL then explained that the Customs would need to rule on whether or not I needed one. The PP sent me to the customs, keeping my docs, and I had to return to the PP once the customs had delivered their verdict. In effect I therefore could not leave until I complied with the customs (who insisted that I must have a TL) and bought a TL (18 month). Once I returned to the PP with my TL the PP fined me for arriving illegally at Kalamata. There was a lot of paperwork, taking statements etc and I was fined €300 reduced to €150 for paying within a month. Now, in theory, I have to check in and out at every port I where there is a PP presence. I also have to lodge my TL with the customs when I return to the U.K. Chris was most helpful and has told me that he has taken up the case. Perhaps I should leave it to him to bring us up to date. Good luck but my advice is that it might be worth giving Kalamata a miss! Simon

It's been a while since we went around from Ionian and back. The weather wasn't great and we sheltered at Petalidi to West of Kalamata. We anchored quite far out (prob. 250m from shore) as chart indicated it was shallow but pretty certain other boats went closer. Town was OK and we found a good restaurant. I think I'd skip Kalamata as well if we had to stop in that area this year.

I remember stopping in Gythion further around and finding the PP very active there. They pounced to get papers as soon as we'd arrived and took them away to make copies. At least they were returned promptly, even though it was raining hard. We got a reminder to pay fees from another officer and yet another a day later. However, we'd made the trip to town to pay by then. I noticed a few impounded yachts in the outer harbour with inner tubes etc. in cockpit. I think there must have been a bit of people smuggling that year and that might have explained the extra PP activity.

 

[ASW11]

Does anyone know if the AADE has yet published an English version of the requirements for 3rd Country Flagged yachts and, if they have, where to find it? cheers