Going to sea unprepared!

[Cariadco]

Having had to install, to comply with an Italian race requirements, I now have an AIS.
It is brilliant, and wish I'd installed one years ago.
When I'm sailing here in Corfu, all the local Ferries and shipping give way.
Something they always seemed reluctant to do, and I always bottled it and changed course.

 

[bill bligh]

The trouble with no or low regulation is that, sometimes people are allowed to do daft things. We're in silly season here. We have serial suiciders - they stand in the middle of our bascule bridge on the water side of the barrier and will jump in. The Police are called first usually. They talk to their 'regular'. They don't jump. Then Ambulance appear, and they don't jump. The coastguard attend, usually followed by the lifeboat, bobbing around close by. Still they don't jump. Then the Fire service arrive. They are now fire and rescue. This is the point they jump, because Police, ambulance, coastguard and lifeboat crews cannot jump into the water - but the rescue fire folk can, in their rub - Thunderbrid 2. Coastguard tasking now seems to be a little like the NHS, the cost implication very important.

We don't allow people to ride motorcycles without a helmet - not even if they are safe drivers, and mandatory seat belts are offences if people, even safe, well meaning and poor people do it. I'm really sorry, but if you do boating for fun, mingling with professional boaters then even if you are poor, you should at least spend a bit on keeping safe. I hear people who are incompetent on their radios - and sometimes they accidentally block channels for long periods with sticky buttons and seem unable to realise that calling the port control six times and thinking they are not answering might be unusual? You hear people who don't realise that a light breeze sounds like a gale if you don't hold the mic close enough in wind. You hear people who waffle so much and for so long, it's embarrassing.

Some may not even know they are supposed to take a test, so never do. I realise my view is perhaps unpalattable, but the notion that as nobody was in danger, all is well, is not right. If people cannot cope with routine issues, then God knows what they'd do in real trouble when stress also comes into play. All comms users have their own style and etiquette developed gradually to improve efficiency and safety. Its' very rare to find private pilots - amateurs who do what boating folk do. Sure, they get tongue-tied sometimes, but still seem able to cope with what needs to be done. I lose count of the port control people replying to vessels complaining about near collisions and they just say "I'm sorry, I'm not in contact with that boat!". They will sometimes ask if an incoming boat is going to the Norfolk and Suffolk Marina - and they say yes, and don't and they get a call asking if the air draught under the bridge is sufficient? They get no answer, then a complaint when they bend the antenna.

I find it difficult to understand anyone who act like this. One complained he had run into a large obstacle in the channel and wanted to complain. It was pointed out the 100ft crane was a bit of a giveaway, but he persisted as it wasn't on his 2018 chart. Port control gently pointed out the new bridge was not there in 2018. These people are accidents waiting to happen. I don't think these people are safe to be in a boat, sorry.

Reverting back to your original post and this one, I have looked on your YouTube channel. I Think you have not done your self any favours. You apologised in a earlier post not wanting to offend folk, yet you continue ranting. I would suggest you apologise once more and stop replying to posts and let this thread run its course.

 

[lustyd]

My father sailed the Snapdragon from East Coast ... across Thames Estuary .... round through to Fareham (Solent) without need for anything except an old chart and pair of binoculars (war surplus !!).

To balance this though, what were the traffic levels in the Channel/solent at the time? I'm certainly not suggesting we need lots of safety gear these days, but it's pointless comparing to a time when there wasn't a shipping movement at 15-20kt every 10 minutes through the Solent, hundreds of ships and fishing boats, aircraft carriers large enough that the harbour closes when they move etc. not to mention 5000 other sailing vessels in the Solent on any given weekend.

There was also a time when it was pretty safe to walk across the M40 blindfolded...

 

[ylop]

The RNLI does have the OPTION to charge you - same as Ambulance. FACT

I did not say they would. I was correcting someones wrong statement.

The Option from who? Their own internal policies? The coastguard designated rescue facility? The law on salvage? Their stated public policy is quite clear. Their operating procedures are quite clear - they have no obligation to attend and the decision to launch is the DLA's not the CG's. So if they've been made aware of your circumstances and still attend they'll have very little basis for complaint. Now if your circumstances when they arrive are wildly different from those presented when you called for help then that's more likely to be a criminal prosecution (like dialing 999 and saying your house is on fire when it is not) than some sort of charge.

UK Ambulance services can (and I believe some may do) charge insurers for attending at RTAs. That is not the same as being able to charge a patient for a difference of opinion on what help they should get. Perhaps you could back up your assertion that this is FACT with a link to the relevant legislation? Because it sounds to me like a "misquotation" or "pub-myth".

 

[Juan Twothree]

The RNLI does have the OPTION to charge you - same as Ambulance. FACT

I did not say they would. I was correcting someones wrong statement.

There is absolutely no policy in place by which we can charge a casualty for our services.

We don't record any personal details unless we have given medical treatment, and even then the casualty is under no obligation to give us those details.

Also, if we have captured video footage of a rescue then we ask for a name and phone number, so as to obtain permission to use the material at a later date, once the dust has settled.

So not only is there no policy to charge people, but neither is there any mechanism for that to be possible.

 

[B27]

Just another youtuber, dregs of the internet.

 

[Cariadco]

The trouble with no or low regulation is that, sometimes people are allowed to do daft things. We're in silly season here. We have serial suiciders - they stand in the middle of our bascule bridge on the water side of the barrier and will jump in. The Police are called first usually. They talk to their 'regular'. They don't jump. Then Ambulance appear, and they don't jump. The coastguard attend, usually followed by the lifeboat, bobbing around close by. Still they don't jump. Then the Fire service arrive. They are now fire and rescue. This is the point they jump, because Police, ambulance, coastguard and lifeboat crews cannot jump into the water - but the rescue fire folk can, in their rub - Thunderbrid 2. Coastguard tasking now seems to be a little like the NHS, the cost implication very important.

We don't allow people to ride motorcycles without a helmet - not even if they are safe drivers, and mandatory seat belts are offences if people, even safe, well meaning and poor people do it. I'm really sorry, but if you do boating for fun, mingling with professional boaters then even if you are poor, you should at least spend a bit on keeping safe. I hear people who are incompetent on their radios - and sometimes they accidentally block channels for long periods with sticky buttons and seem unable to realise that calling the port control six times and thinking they are not answering might be unusual? You hear people who don't realise that a light breeze sounds like a gale if you don't hold the mic close enough in wind. You hear people who waffle so much and for so long, it's embarrassing.

Some may not even know they are supposed to take a test, so never do. I realise my view is perhaps unpalattable, but the notion that as nobody was in danger, all is well, is not right. If people cannot cope with routine issues, then God knows what they'd do in real trouble when stress also comes into play. All comms users have their own style and etiquette developed gradually to improve efficiency and safety. Its' very rare to find private pilots - amateurs who do what boating folk do. Sure, they get tongue-tied sometimes, but still seem able to cope with what needs to be done. I lose count of the port control people replying to vessels complaining about near collisions and they just say "I'm sorry, I'm not in contact with that boat!". They will sometimes ask if an incoming boat is going to the Norfolk and Suffolk Marina - and they say yes, and don't and they get a call asking if the air draught under the bridge is sufficient? They get no answer, then a complaint when they bend the antenna.

I find it difficult to understand anyone who act like this. One complained he had run into a large obstacle in the channel and wanted to complain. It was pointed out the 100ft crane was a bit of a giveaway, but he persisted as it wasn't on his 2018 chart. Port control gently pointed out the new bridge was not there in 2018. These people are accidents waiting to happen. I don't think these people are safe to be in a boat, sorry.

oh dear......

 

[Refueler]

There is absolutely no policy in place by which we can charge a casualty for our services.

We don't record any personal details unless we have given medical treatment, and even then the casualty is under no obligation to give us those details.

Also, if we have captured video footage of a rescue then we ask for a name and phone number, so as to obtain permission to use the material at a later date, once the dust has settled.

So not only is there no policy to charge people, but neither is there any mechanism for that to be possible.

I was told of such possibility by RNLI station ... I will not name it to avoid problems ...

If they were wrong - fair enough. TBH - I would not be against such a policy ... considering some of the daft calls they have to answer.

 

[Pye_End]

If they were wrong - fair enough. TBH - I would not be against such a policy ... considering some of the daft calls they have to answer.

We all do daft things from time to time..... Looking back at accidents turns most people into 'experts' after an event.

 

[Biggles Wader]

The Option from who? Their own internal policies? The coastguard designated rescue facility? The law on salvage? Their stated public policy is quite clear. Their operating procedures are quite clear - they have no obligation to attend and the decision to launch is the DLA's not the CG's. So if they've been made aware of your circumstances and still attend they'll have very little basis for complaint. Now if your circumstances when they arrive are wildly different from those presented when you called for help then that's more likely to be a criminal prosecution (like dialing 999 and saying your house is on fire when it is not) than some sort of charge.

UK Ambulance services can (and I believe some may do) charge insurers for attending at RTAs. That is not the same as being able to charge a patient for a difference of opinion on what help they should get. Perhaps you could back up your assertion that this is FACT with a link to the relevant legislation? Because it sounds to me like a "misquotation" or "pub-myth".

This is my understanding too. I think individual lifeboat crew can legally make a salvage claim independently of the RNLI who have a policy never to do so but that is totally different from anyone making a charge for a call out however unwarranted.
UK ambulance services have no provision for charging callers for unwarranted calls. They can and do use the law to "restrain" some callers who regularly abuse the service and they take some to court over it but never charge for call outs.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

The RNLI does have the OPTION to charge you - same as Ambulance. FACT

I did not say they would. I was correcting someones wrong statement.

But I understand that if a crew decides to charge (which they can under salvage law), they have to pay the costs of the launch, fuel and consumables,

 

[AntarcticPilot]

UK ambulance services have no provision for charging callers for unwarranted calls. They can and do use the law to "restrain" some callers who regularly abuse the service and they take some to court over it but never charge for call outs.

I know of a person who regularly "passed out" in circumstances where it was certain an ambulance would be called, even though nearly all of us were convinced the person was just seeking attention. But the circumstances were such that not calling an ambulance wasn't an option. Public bodies, unfortunately, can't take the chance, even if they are pretty sure the person is crying wolf. Being careful here, as I don't want the person to be identifiable from this post.

 

[Juan Twothree]

But I understand that if a crew decides to charge (which they can under salvage law), they have to pay the costs of the launch, fuel and consumables,

That's correct, but as you say it would be down to the individual crew. I've never heard of it happening though.

It's' not the policy of the RNLI to either lodge salvage claims, or to charge for launches.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

That's correct, but as you say it would be down to the individual crew. I've never heard of it happening though.

It's' not the policy of the RNLI to either lodge salvage claims, or to charge for launches.

I think the requirement to repay the costs of the launch makes it uneconomic in most cases!

 

[roaringgirl]

I crewed on 9 different yachts to get from Gran Canaria to NZ in 2007/8. Apart from 2 they were *all* unprepared for their journeys, to a greater or lesser extent. It led me to conclude that most sailors and boats are under prepared, but it's not a problem unless they are also unfortunate.

 

[Gsailor]

I crewed on 9 different yachts to get from Gran Canaria to NZ in 2007/8. Apart from 2 they were *all* unprepared for their journeys, to a greater or lesser extent. It led me to conclude that most sailors and boats are under prepared, but it's not a problem unless they are also unfortunate.

Why would I, a very simple coastal skipper have numerous vhf, Metz, ais, flares, LEDs , 3 life rafts ( out of date), spare sails, 3 anchors , and goodness what else I forget plus outboarx in case sails fail - why would I ?

If others with greater ambitions stock up with less?

Am I wrong?

And they wrong?

I have no answer - just queries.

I do believe if a job is worth doing it is wort he doing well.

 

[Gsailor]

I crewed on 9 different yachts to get from Gran Canaria to NZ in 2007/8. Apart from 2 they were *all* unprepared for their journeys, to a greater or lesser extent. It led me to conclude that most sailors and boats are under prepared, but it's not a problem unless they are also unfortunate.

If they are unfortunate, you die? Yes?

But you sailed.

Your choice.

Ming Ming ( 1 and 2) learnt from being shipwrecked ( not his fault) and made his subsequent boats bulletproof.

 

[Gsailor]

Why would I, a very simple coastal skipper have numerous vhf, Metz, ais, flares, LEDs , 3 life rafts ( out of date), spare sails, 3 anchors , and goodness what else I forget plus outboarx in case sails fail - why would I ?

If others with greater ambitions stock up with less?

Am I wrong?

And they wrong?

I have no answer - just queries.

I do believe if a job is worth doing it is wort he doing well.

Being unfortunate can lead to death - if you accept that for the the lack of spending £1000 or more or less, so be it.

 

[ylop]

But I understand that if a crew decides to charge (which they can under salvage law), they have to pay the costs of the launch, fuel and consumables,

In the hypothetical circumstance refueler described the lifeboat’s time was being wasted and therefore presumably the vessel was not in any peril. In such a circumstance one of the essential parts of a salvage claim would be missing, so it would be interesting to see how any such claim were resolved by the courts if the vessel was not in any real danger.

 

[roaringgirl]

If they are unfortunate, you die? Yes?

But you sailed.

Your choice.

Ming Ming ( 1 and 2) learnt from being shipwrecked ( not his fault) and made his subsequent boats bulletproof.

We quickly learned and built a checklist which we would run-through before agreeing to crew.