Going to sea unprepared!

[paulears]

I thought I'd share this video after listening to our local radio this morning. If you have a seagoing yacht, presumably it cost you a fair bit in time and money. If you go to sea in it, then even with an engine, sometimes things will give you a scare. Today, we had somebody 4 miles out (or at least that was where they said they were), and their engine failed - they were drifting, quite quickly with the North to South Currents. They called up the local Yacht Club in Lowestoft for help, and they had nothing in the water and advised them to call the Coastguard. They didn't do it immediately, and by the time they called on 16, Humber Coastguard were having trouble hearing them - lots of repeats and mis-hears. They then task the lifeboat and warn the lifeboat crew that they are on a handheld with failing batteries, so might not be able to hear them. I just cannot imagine why anybody would go to sea unprepared. Hand-helds have very short range and the horizon is only about 4 miles. It took a while to find a "white yacht" but the lifeboat brought them in and stuck them in the marina. I was a bit taken back by their stupidity, but nothing surprises me now. Another boater calling and calling the harbour just after this - really loud, really clear, but obviously forgetting to turn the volume up so he missed numerous replies. A kayak fella yesterday paddling full pelt and not making any progress in rough seas, with no radio - and the pilot boar crew took pity on him. Every day, people with more money and no common sense put other people at risk. anyone can break down. A hand-held with flat batteries is really stupid. A cheap plotter would tell people where you are, a 12V/25w Radio with antenna on the mast would increase your range by a long way, and they're not even expensive. Less than getting the failed engine fixed!

 

[ylop]

I thought I'd share this video after listening to our local radio this morning. If you have a seagoing yacht, presumably it cost you a fair bit in time and money. If you go to sea in it, then even with an engine, sometimes things will give you a scare. Today, we had somebody 4 miles out (or at least that was where they said they were), and their engine failed - they were drifting, quite quickly with the North to South Currents. They called up the local Yacht Club in Lowestoft for help, and they had nothing in the water and advised them to call the Coastguard.

Calling the Yacht Club is a strange thing to do if you need help.

They didn't do it immediately,

Not calling the CG for help when you need it is a strange thing to do. But I have to wonder if the reason people don't ask for help as early as they should is a concern that they will be judged and criticised for getting in bother in the first place (which your post seems to suggest is likely)

I just cannot imagine why anybody would go to sea unprepared.

That may be so, but people sailed the world before VHF radios so having a better radio is not an indication they are prepared!

Hand-helds have very short range and the horizon is only about 4 miles.

It should be more if they are calling a CG shore station some metres up a mast on top of a headland somewhere.

Another boater calling and calling the harbour just after this - really loud, really clear, but obviously forgetting to turn the volume up so he missed numerous replies.

Actually, I once had this embarrassing situation. Only when I got no response after several attempts at calling Belfast CG on a fixed radio, and switch to my handheld did I realise that someone had bumped the squelch right up on the radio by mistake and so I couldn't here the response. Whenever people moan about radio check's I think of that (no emergency) learning point, and wonder if perhaps we should be more open to people making trivial calls more often.

A kayak fella yesterday paddling full pelt and not making any progress in rough seas, with no radio - and the pilot boar crew took pity on him.

Probably had a phone, and hadn't got to the stage of calling 999 so why do you assume a VHF would have been different.

Every day, people with more money and no common sense put other people at risk. anyone can break down.

Do you know they had lots of money? Did they really put others at risk (I don't buy the idea that every lifeboat launch puts the crew in appreciable danger - they go training regularly).

A hand-held with flat batteries is really stupid.

Its certainly unlucky, but without knowing the boat its quite a jump to say really stupid. Lots of people would not think too much about a low handheld battery if they have power on board. I suspect many of us with fixed stations don't check the battery in our h/h very often. Without knowing the circumstances I'd be hesitant to judge.

A cheap plotter would tell people where you are,

almost every phone can do this without any paid app etc

a 12V/25w Radio with antenna on the mast would increase your range by a long way, and they're not even expensive. Less than getting the failed engine fixed!

Perhaps they had a fixed station and plotter etc but whatever crisis they had has taken out the electrics and engine. You can have all the kit - doesn't mean you are "prepared".

 

[paulears]

Well, phones won't go any further than a handheld, of course - probably less as the mast heights on shore are designed for local coverage.
I fully get that people used to, and still do go a long way from land, but with all the help available reliant on technology, if you want help from the Coastguard, perhaps people should invest a little. I don't own a boat, but large numbers of friends do, and all complain about them being a money pit. Surely safety equipment should not be compromised. many people buy hand-helds that can have dry batteries fitted, not battery packs - and keep a set of 10yr life dry cells for emergencies. My the plotter, I meant telling other vessels where you are via AIS, not an app on a phone. I used 'stupid' quite deliberately - it is stupid to put yourself and your rescuers in potential danger. Actual danger they do indeed train for, but accidents do happen. I'm not sure the lifeboat crews would not privately have a few choice comments for these people. Re: the kayak. The port control approve and control vessel movements, but if they cannot talk to the vessels in their area, that's a problem. Does a very large vessel have to stop, because somebody with a paddle strolls into their path. Green and Red lights often mean nothing, it seems! here, we're quite flat, so the Coastguard transmitting antennas are not very high at all - clearly they just heard them, but I'm in the harbour and I couldn't. They could indeed have had the electronics and lost power to that too, but normally there would be a float battery for when you have engine off, wouldn't there?

I spend lots of time in the office and hear all types of marine comms, from the military, the gas/oil, the windfarms fishing and leisure users, and have to say the leisure users are with exceptions, of course, the worst - some just embarassing, but some truly awful. Over and out! (I usually count those and cringe - only 3 so far today!)

 

[Refueler]

As the Boss of the local Yacht Harbour here said other day when I was chatting to him .....

Youtube boaters !!

I tend to agree .... there are loads of YT vids that can make a total numpty think --- I can do that .... its easy.

 

[Refueler]

Mobile Phone .... having read post #3 .....

My guys go out to ships to supervise cargo transfers ... ships are usually on or just outside the 12ml zone ...

Its only in poorly covered regions that the mobiles have comm problem.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

When I first went sailing I could not afford decent lifejackets, and only had handheld radios as no battery on boat, as outboard could not charge it. The boat next was very capable Anderson 22, but still no electric generation and a long long walk across marsh to moorings, and lugging car battery along every time I sailed not practical, so i bought spare handheld plus better lifejackets, and self contained nav lights. Not all sailors have money

And it is embarrassing to call for help. I have done it once while un-recoverably crab potted of Padstow, and discussed situation with CG when I had engine failure in nil wind with a storm brewing - the LB sort of pressed me to accept tow on the grounds that if I failed to make harbour I might drag them out of bed later if situation too serious. I called without pondering and have instructed the navigator to do the same at need but I can understand a novices greater reluctance

 

[bill bligh]

I thought I'd share this video after listening to our local radio this morning. If you have a seagoing yacht, presumably it cost you a fair bit in time and money. If you go to sea in it, then even with an engine, sometimes things will give you a scare. Today, we had somebody 4 miles out (or at least that was where they said they were), and their engine failed - they were drifting, quite quickly with the North to South Currents. They called up the local Yacht Club in Lowestoft for help, and they had nothing in the water and advised them to call the Coastguard. They didn't do it immediately, and by the time they called on 16, Humber Coastguard were having trouble hearing them - lots of repeats and mis-hears. They then task the lifeboat and warn the lifeboat crew that they are on a handheld with failing batteries, so might not be able to hear them. I just cannot imagine why anybody would go to sea unprepared. Hand-helds have very short range and the horizon is only about 4 miles. It took a while to find a "white yacht" but the lifeboat brought them in and stuck them in the marina. I was a bit taken back by their stupidity, but nothing surprises me now. Another boater calling and calling the harbour just after this - really loud, really clear, but obviously forgetting to turn the volume up so he missed numerous replies. A kayak fella yesterday paddling full pelt and not making any progress in rough seas, with no radio - and the pilot boar crew took pity on him. Every day, people with more money and no common sense put other people at risk. anyone can break down. A hand-held with flat batteries is really stupid. A cheap plotter would tell people where you are, a 12V/25w Radio with antenna on the mast would increase your range by a long way, and they're not even expensive. Less than getting the failed engine fixed!

I think you are being a little unfair. It sounds the way you are telling the story that the people on the little white boat are still finding their feet and learning, we have all made mistakes. You do not say if it was a cabin cruiser type motor yacht or a sailing yacht. I would hope that they would have learnt from their mistake by not having spare battery. The only time I would use words like "I was taken back by their stupidity" is if they did not have an in date inshore flair pack.

 

[KevinV]

Paul, I've enjoyed your previous contributions but this, to me, feels like a rant - with a fair few assumptions in it. I didn't hear the actual conversation of course but based on your synopsis I would make the following comments;

- owning a 25ft boat does not mean you are well off. The fact that it broke down might suggest it is older rather than newer and not perfectly maintained, both of which suggest the lower end of the budget. a couple of grand could have you in the water. At that sort of budget level then £250 on a fixed vhf and £250 for a plotter are significant sums. However poor, they WERE within vhf range, and any mobile phone will give you lat/long regardless of mobile reception.

- if it was a sailing yacht they could have put their sails up - they didn't, so how sure are you that it WAS a sailing yacht, with the benefit of a tall mast for a fixed vhf? If a cabin cruiser type boat then a fixed vhf would have a small advantage, but not much.

- not wanting to waste the emergency services' time, but instead calling your own clubmates seems utterly sensible to me as a first action. The pause before actually calling the CG suggests to me that they had another go at restarting the engine before finally deciding it really was an emergency. From the little I can see they weren't drifting into imminent danger, so I don't see the problem with this.

- I agree that not checking the batteries on your handheld is not clever, but talk of spare battery packs, etc is just nonsense for a day boat (which this might well have been). It's also quite possible that the thing, with a tired battery, sits on standby quite happily all day, but starts eating battery once you start transmitting at any length. Not clever, but an easy enough mistake to make - it would pass the "is it fully charged" visual test in the morning, only falling short during operation.

Re not realising the volume is turned down - I'm sure we've all done it. Not worth getting upset about.

Re the kayaker - did they ask for help? Not according to your report - they were offered help and accepted it. There is no way of knowing they would have become a casualty had they not received it, so again I think you are being a bit judgy.

Yes, there are lots of numpties on the water, but we live and learn - many people don't realise how big and dangerous the sea is until they get out there - they don't know that they don't know. Better to stick to teaching people to do better I think, rather than calling them stupid.

 

[MikeBz]

Typical mobile phone range ship-to-shore, assuming good coverage shoreside, is 10-15 miles. A lot better than 4!

 

[lustyd]

they were drifting, quite quickly with the North to South Currents

Do the currents not reverse every 6 hours there like elsewhere? Also, I didn't see the part where life was in danger, perhaps needs elaborating on.

 

[ylop]

Well, phones won't go any further than a handheld, of course - probably less as the mast heights on shore are designed for local coverage.
I fully get that people used to, and still do go a long way from land, but with all the help available reliant on technology, if you want help from the Coastguard, perhaps people should invest a little. I don't own a boat, but large numbers of friends do, and all complain about them being a money pit. Surely safety equipment should not be compromised. many people buy hand-helds that can have dry batteries fitted, not battery packs - and keep a set of 10yr life dry cells for emergencies. My the plotter, I meant telling other vessels where you are via AIS, not an app on a phone. I used 'stupid' quite deliberately - it is stupid to put yourself and your rescuers in potential danger. Actual danger they do indeed train for, but accidents do happen. I'm not sure the lifeboat crews would not privately have a few choice comments for these people. Re: the kayak. The port control approve and control vessel movements, but if they cannot talk to the vessels in their area, that's a problem. Does a very large vessel have to stop, because somebody with a paddle strolls into their path. Green and Red lights often mean nothing, it seems! here, we're quite flat, so the Coastguard transmitting antennas are not very high at all - clearly they just heard them, but I'm in the harbour and I couldn't. They could indeed have had the electronics and lost power to that too, but normally there would be a float battery for when you have engine off, wouldn't there?

I spend lots of time in the office and hear all types of marine comms, from the military, the gas/oil, the windfarms fishing and leisure users, and have to say the leisure users are with exceptions, of course, the worst - some just embarassing, but some truly awful. Over and out! (I usually count those and cringe - only 3 so far today!)

I hadn’t watched your video when I posted earlier. What a load of self promoting nonsense. Presumably you made that to get your YouTube clicks up - shame you didn’t have your facts right! A plotter won’t make your position show up to other people - that would need an AIS transponder, very few 25ft yachts have such fitted, and will cost upwards of £500 (and to be useful to you directly need a plotter costing at least as much again). Add in a fixed vhf, the coax cable, antennae, and all the accessories you need to make them talk to each other and you could well be doubling the total cost of a 25ft “MAB”.

You can get handhelds which take AA type cells as a fall back, but they are far less common since the USB charged lithium battery has become the normal method of powering a VHF.

Your post said yacht club but video said marina. Which was it? Calling a marina to see if they can provide a tow is not an uncommon solution to a technical problem. I doubt many will go 4 miles, but perhaps some would in calm conditions. It will almost certainly cost money which the lifeboat would not. “We” need to decide what “we” want to be annoyed at - people wasting the lifeboats time, or people trying to sort an issue without inconveniencing the lifeboat as a first resort?

What was wrong with the engine? If it wouldn’t start could be a loose/broken/corroded battery (or isolator switch) connection which might also take out the electronics. If you know where to start, have some simple tools, it’s not too bouncy/rolly and are calm enough to be systematic in your problem solving that’s an easy fix. Lifeboats get called out for much less complicated faults.

As for commercial harbour operations - they have far reaching powers to make and enforce bylaws. Like any other walk of life if ignoring a rule has no consequences it takes little time before the rule becomes guidance, and the guidance becomes optional, and the norm becomes to ignore it. That’s as much the port authority’s issue as the rogue paddler.

Every competent radio operator cringes when they hear over and out. But perhaps that says more about us than it does about the transmittor. After all in 99% of those communications their meaning was clear - they are saying “out”.

 

[paulears]

It was the Norfolk and Suffolk yacht club, and they have a marina for short and longer term vessels of all kinds.

It was indeed a bit of a rant - but frankly, and based on what I hear, the opeating standards from some people are woeful. It's so obvious that there have been misunderstandings when you hear unexpected responses. At the moment there are a pile of windfarm vessels heading in and some motor cruisers hovering around and the port control just gave one permission, subject to following on from the tail windfarm vessel - he made it very clear (I thought) that it was important they wait and follow in the windfarm vessels. He had to ask three time before they responded saying they would follow them in - that was all he waited for.

I do understand what you're all saying - but my off-shore boating is essential jobs only. I went with a local fisherman to test a problem he was having and cellphone coverage was very poor to the south, better to the north where the land is higher and range creeps up. The coastguard attempted phone contact but it did not work. Clearly there were no persons at risk at the time, but surely in a boat, away from land there should have been some kind of safety plan? I realise that there is no requirement for any comms, let alone efficient ones, but would not sensible people not have something more reliable than a handheld?

I didn't know mobiles have GPS receivers in them - something to remember for me.

I'm sorry if I've offended people, but maybe to me, these things are obvious. I assumed (wrongly) that responsible owners would equip themselves for real problems, just in case? I'm just commenting on what I heard, and am a reasonable reader of tone of voice between coastguard and lifeboat. Its a good job they only had a failed engine.

 

[Refueler]

Your post said yacht club but video said marina. Which was it? Calling a marina to see if they can provide a tow is not an uncommon solution to a technical problem. I doubt many will go 4 miles, but perhaps some would in calm conditions. It will almost certainly cost money which the lifeboat would not. “We” need to decide what “we” want to be annoyed at - people wasting the lifeboats time, or people trying to sort an issue without inconveniencing the lifeboat as a first resort?

Actually same as Ambulances - you CAN be charged for services if they deem you 'did not really need their service' .... I was not aware of that until I had a tow in by LB at Bembridge IoW. I was not charged as it was a worsening situation.

Basically Snapdragon 23 ... two of us on board ... weather forecast indicated strong winds coming in later ... but enough time to cut across Solent back to Langstone Hbr from Bembridge.

Came out of Bembridge and the Yamaha 5hp was running fine - then a large wave caused stern to dig in ... outboard swamped - stopped.

Rolled out part genny ..... and we were halfway out towards the Fort .... then forestay pulled out of deck ... genny fully unfurled ... 90 degrees to masthead !
Harry - ex SBS ... amazingly used the furling line to drag the genny and gear back to deck ... while I used spinnaker halyard to rig a makeshift forestay.
All; the while we were being blown towards the rocks round the Fort ... but then touched sand ... We were stuck ... wind was increasing such that water and spray was being driven over the deck ... because boat was aground. I had slung out anchor as well just in case !!

No way to use Main with that forestay missing ... so I called Solent CG on direct VHF ch ... advised them of position - situation ....

Next we knew was LB was approaching - but they could not get close due to lack of water for them.
We were told to watch for rocket line and then haul in to towing line etc.

Line fast ... they hauled us of the sand and then took us back into Bembridge ...

Alongside - we answered the questionnaire for their event log ... and made donation of what we had in pockets ...

My point with this post - is that we called CG direct and relayed the overall situation. The LB came and after they said it was a good drill for them as they used rocket line in strong wind conditions over quite a long distance .... they understood that the change from long tow to short while transiting Bembridge channel was an error as they ran aground at one point and being on such a short line - ran into the stern of the LB damaging Pulpit and stem. It was a good lesson for all.
But we were safe and Coombes Yard very nicely agreed to lift and yard the boat next day. We left key etc. with them and got the Hovercraft home ...

 

[LittleSister]

I'd be pleased to hear from those hallowed souls who have never made a daft mistake in a boat as to how they reached their elevated state of consciousness.

It is often said that experience is what you get just after you needed it. I know that much of my current safety consciousness (and consideration for others), such as it is, is in some not insignificant part the result of getting myself in a bit of a pickle on various occasions, and subsequently knowing better as a result. My incidence of mistakes has declined over the years, as I've made enough of a range of them (or observed or read of others doing so), but I don't expect to ever reach the point where I'm completely immune to them.,

The old school boating stories of the like of Maurice Griffiths and Denny Desouter were full of tales about scrapes they got into on the road to their respected mastery of boating, and while no doubt there was an element of artistic licence in crafting such tales, they certainly tended to ring true. Such tales provided an engaging, entertaining and easily digestible source of valuable guidance/warning about what to do or not do, and what could go wrong. (I'm not sure that internet videos provide quite the same breadth, depth or density-per-unit-time-devoted-to-them of useful (and, importantly, appealing) guidance as such books and magazine articles.)

Yes, there are a few complete idiots out there who are beyond the reach of reason or common sense, but probably the majority are just (semi-idiots?) inexperienced and/or unlucky, and will hopefully know better next time.

 

[William_H]

Speaking of boat disasters. This story in oz news. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-16/indonesian-crew-member
The people rescued were in the water for 36hrs. (warm water) sitting on surf boards. ol'will

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Indonesian boat captain details the last moment he saw missing crew member, as search goes on

 

[Momac]

I didn't know mobiles have GPS receivers in them - something to remember for me.

How to Get GPS Coordinates on Phone | Trakkit.



Maybe they had an electrical failure which disabled the fixed vhf and gps. Sounds like there was no wind ?

Stranded yacht sparks lifeboat call

 

[lustyd]

Which demonstrates why we shouldn't be quick to judge. Sounds like they did everything right to me, and were at no point in any real danger.

 

[Petertheking1982]

Just thus week....called marina on main VHF, no reply after second call, so turned up the volume which i forgot was down. My hand held I check the battery (switch on, check, switch off) every trip. Tried calling marina on hand held, receives fine but when tried transmitting battery's went almost to nil. Now I will actually put it on charge even it says full. Still yet to call marina on 16 this year! We all make mistakes.

 

[boomerangben]

We are blessed to partake in a hobby that is relatively (more or less completely at the user interface) unregulated, releasing us from the day to day slavery to compliance. If we decide that sailing/boating is sufficiently risky to require training and certification prior to entry, do we not lose part of the freedom we value?

So many wonderful pastimes have risks such a mountain walking, cycling and a variety of other activities also don’t need training and we are free to enjoy them. Yes we learn as we go and hopefully through near misses rather than serious injury or rescue.

As for common sense…. Common sense tells us that a cup of Macdonald’s coffee is hot before you read the warning, look both ways before crossing roads etc etc. seamanship tells us what radio to have, what safety kit to have. That’s not at all common, it’s a specific sense that comes only through education.