Go Big or Go Home?

GravyStain said:
Hurricane - your marina does look amazing for the price!
Click to expand...
We like to think so.
But some people would say - Location - Location - Location.
That always makes me laugh.
Talk to 99% of the Sant Carles berth holders and they will say that it is an excellent location.
That lagoon cannot be underestimated and the islands only 100 miles away.
There is an interesting report in the current (December) Motor Boat and Yachting mag.
A guy who took his boat all the way from Holland to Mallorca AND BACK - in just one cruise.
We delivered JW to the Med on her own bottom and that was a huge challenge - I just didn't believe that story until I read it.
Interestingly, he "took in" some of our local haunts - the Columbrette Islands (between us and Ibiza), Valencia (well worth a visit) and, of course Mallorca.

BTW
Just for old time's sake here is a link to the report of our delivery from Torquay to Sant Carles in 2008.
A blast from the past
Princess 67 Delivery - UK to Spain - Loads of Pics and Videos
 
Deleted User said:
Bart just out of interest, what is the coastline like in the immediate vicinity of Cagliari? Are there good anchorages within say 10nm of the city or do you have to go further? I know the coastline around Teulada is pretty spectacular but that must be at least an hour's cruise from Cagliari or am I wrong?
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Are you thinking of going back again, Mike?
We had planned to do another summer in Carloforte but Covid put paid to that.
Maybe next year.
It will be nice to see MapisM again as well.
 
markc said:
How critical is speed / fuel burn? That may also influence your decision as a 58 ft boat going quickly could easily chew through £400 an hour
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Hi Marc,

I guess it's as critical as you choose it to be... If you're going 10nm to a cruising ground then it would be nice to open the taps and have a play. If you're on a decent passage then drop back to DS and let the engines sip their gin slowly...

A 55ft boat I'm guessing will chew through £250 an hour at decent cruise I would think. If you're on a longish passage (to Majorca for example) then i guess the choice is to get up at the crack of dawn and pootle , or go at cruisng speed and accept the cost (always weather / sea state dependant though).

I wouldn't have the patience to go at DS, plus on off coast passages I imagine it's uncomfortable after a while unless it's a millpond.
 
GravyStain said:
I wouldn't have the patience to go at DS, plus on off coast passages I imagine it's uncomfortable after a while unless it's a millpond.
Click to expand...
Oooo - you have hit a soft spot here.
It is called "Pootling"
Probably best if you are a cat 3 person but cat 2 people can do this as well.
Here are some consumption numbers for our Princess 67
At 10 knots - about 25 litres per hour per engine.
At 25 knots - 180 litres per hour per engine.
Out on the open water, we don't really do any other speed - planing or pootling.

This is Pootling
 
Hurricane said:
Oooo - you have hit a soft spot here.
It is called "Pootling"
Probably best if you are a cat 3 person but cat 2 people can do this as well.
Here are some consumption numbers for our Princess 67
At 10 knots - about 25 litres per hour per engine.
At 25 knots - 180 litres per hour per engine.
Out on the open water, we don't really do any other speed - planing or pootling.

This is Pootling
Click to expand...
Hahaha - love it. Do you pootle all the way to Majorca? a long passage...or do you mix it up a bit?
 
GravyStain said:
Hahaha - love it. Do you pootle all the way to Majorca? a long passage...or do you mix it up a bit?
Click to expand...

Can't speak for Hurricane but with me I usually start off with the best intention to pootle but lose patience. I will go 2-3 hrs at 9-10kts and then get so bored I put the hammer down for the rest of the trip. Actually the received wisdom is that modern turbocharged diesel engines need to be put under load for an average of 20mins in every hour and thats my usual excuse!
 
Deleted User said:
FWIW there are still things I miss about boating in the UK particularly not being able to go to my boat on a whim and not being able to spend time tinkering with it. The maximum number of nights I've ever spent on my boat in the Med in one calendar year is 42 and I generally average around 35 which is far less than I was doing in the UK. And whilst I'm not that handy, I do miss not working on the boat myself. As I said previously, I'm not on my boat long enough to spend time tinkering with it. Not only does that mean I have to pay somebody else to do those jobs but there's always the nagging doubt they arent done properly

So keeping your boat in the Med is definitely not better in every way than keeping your boat in the UK
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True, it was more of a wistful hope that one day my life might be simple enough that we could up sticks and move Medwards semi permanently. But the chances of that at the moment are nil for reasons I don't really want to go into; as it is we've managed a dozen nights on the (new) boat this year despite lockdown I and lockdown II, general Covid crap and family worries.
 
Hurricane said:
Oooo - you have hit a soft spot here.
It is called "Pootling"
Probably best if you are a cat 3 person but cat 2 people can do this as well.
Here are some consumption numbers for our Princess 67
At 10 knots - about 25 litres per hour per engine.
At 25 knots - 180 litres per hour per engine.
Out on the open water, we don't really do any other speed - planing or pootling.

This is Pootling
Click to expand...
Great video and one of my favorite songs?
 
Hurricane said:
Are you thinking of going back again, Mike?
We had planned to do another summer in Carloforte but Covid put paid to that.
Maybe next year.
It will be nice to see MapisM again as well.
Click to expand...

I just dont know Mike. Just about the only thing I do know is that I'm not going to pay the ridiculous price Port Vauban is asking for a new berth lease in Antibes from 2022 onwards. Much as we like Carloforte I'm not sure we'd go back there because of the long convoluted journey from our home (minimum 10hrs door to door). Cagliari would be an option because the marinas are close to the airport, its a nice city and Sardinia is an interesting place but its just one of many thoughts I've had
 
Deleted User said:
I just dont know Mike. Just about the only thing I do know is that I'm not going to pay the ridiculous price Port Vauban is asking for a new berth lease in Antibes from 2022 onwards. Much as we like Carloforte I'm not sure we'd go back there because of the long convoluted journey from our home (minimum 10hrs door to door). Cagliari would be an option because the marinas are close to the airport, its a nice city and Sardinia is an interesting place but its just one of many thoughts I've had
Click to expand...
Yep - the trek from Cagliari to Carloforte could "tip the balance".
It seems as though Bart is in Cagliari so you wouldn't be on your own,
 
GravyStain said:
Hahaha - love it. Do you pootle all the way to Majorca? a long passage...or do you mix it up a bit?
Click to expand...
Usually, we "Pootle" for around half the passage.
Pootling can be quite pleasant - as long as someone is delegated as the "skipper", the rest of the boat can relax.
In the past, I've even got on with some jobs (serviced the shore power leads on one trip).
The longest that we ever "just pootled" on a complete passage was a return passage from Sardinia - just short of 200 miles - left early in the morning arrived Mahon (Menorca) at 02:00 the next morning.
Mahon is a very easy port to arrive in the dark, especially if you have done it lots of times before.

Here is a video that answers your question.
Quite a typical passage 10 miles on the plane then 10 miles off etc
Sorry - before the age of camera stabilisation.


But on a shorter passage to the Balearics, we would time it so that the last bit is planing.
On any passage, it is always that last bit that seems to drag on - you see the land 15 to 20 miles out and it seems to take forever to get there.
For this reason, I "save up" my planing sessions so that the last bit feels quicker.

Lots of people ask WHY POOTLE
Well, with that strategy, I can start from Sant Carles with full tanks, cruise Mallorca for a week or two and return without refuelling.
 
GravyStain said:
Hi Marc,

I guess it's as critical as you choose it to be... If you're going 10nm to a cruising ground then it would be nice to open the taps and have a play. If you're on a decent passage then drop back to DS and let the engines sip their gin slowly...

A 55ft boat I'm guessing will chew through £250 an hour at decent cruise I would think. If you're on a longish passage (to Majorca for example) then i guess the choice is to get up at the crack of dawn and pootle , or go at cruisng speed and accept the cost (always weather / sea state dependant though).

I wouldn't have the patience to go at DS, plus on off coast passages I imagine it's uncomfortable after a while unless it's a millpond.
Click to expand...
I'm with Hurricane and lots of other in that we enjoy a pootle - so many days are flat calm that it's very pleasant way to travel. Apart from being pleasant it does spread out the £3500 fill ups :-)
 
Just a few things to chuck in the mix.
When you have got your boat what are you going to do on it/ with it?
We/I have been all three of Deleted User's med boat types. We are now in the Villa/pool mode and do mostly day boating with a few longer trips over the summer or early autumn on the Spain mainland near Alicante. We now have a 38 foot flybridge but prior to that a 45 foot targa and then a fifty foot flybridge with midcabin, washing machine etc.

Over the last twenty years we have had lots of people on board our various boats and peoples reactions vary enormously when they get on board. Most people love it - well they love zooming along on a beautiful calm day - just like the adverts. Seeing dolphins whilst on a cruise. Messing about with a fast tender or a jetski. They love pulling into a new marina and going out on the town for the evening. They love dining on the flybridge or cockpit. They love sunbathing on the forward deck or flybridge living the dream and hanging around the marina with all the boats etc. Sleeping and living on board is exciting and different. That's all brilliant and why we buy them.

They don't like - a lumpy ride in the afternoon when the wind gets up and the boat starts moving around. People expect a motor boat to move around like a cruise ship. Unless the boat is pretty big with stabilisers they pitch and if you have to slow down, roll. I haven't had anyone throw up in a long time but I have had a few turn green, praying for the journey to end on what I would consider a calm day. People really don't like being at anchor with the boat is rolling around like a pig. If your boating time is limited ideally you need to be based somewhere there is always a place with calm-ish water so you can do some sort of boating activity, and/or things to do/see ashore. If you start going out when it's really a bit too rough to be fun, people get upset/frightened.
Sant Carles has the lagoon, the Costa Blanca has some quiet corners in the north end of the bays and the inland sea the Mar Menor. The Balearics have the Calas and the South of France has a generally favourable wind direction - which are terrific but they are busy and you pay the price! So do some research on that, where ever you are thinking of being based. Some marinas are very cheap - there is a reason for that! They are either in the middle of nowhere so its boating or not a lot else, or the prevailing wind/sea state makes it all hard work too often. If you have teenagers you need to think about that, else they won't want to come along.

Much day time boating in the med is water activities: Swimming in the sea. Some people don't like swimming in the sea - the salt and fear of what else might be in the water - jelly fish and sharks. Sharks are not a problem in the med - humans have eaten pretty much everything. Jelly fish unfortunately are sometimes a problem.
Getting into the sea from the bathing platform. Some people really don't like either jumping in or climbing down the swim ladder into relatively deep water when the boat is anchored or tied to a buoy. The boat will be in 10 - 20 feet of water and usually a bit too far from land for an easy swim if they are not confident swimmers. Getting back aboard can be difficult if people are not reasonably fit either - and if the boat is moving about, a bit intimidating.

Ultimately motor boats, however big, are just posh caravans - so living aboard is not like living in a house. There are compromises. I could quite happily live aboard all the time. However most people have a limit - they start to miss the conveniences and space a house offers (hence our change to villa mode). The thing my wife dislikes is getting a big food and drink shop onto the boat across a passarelle and then finding places for all of it. So if you are going to use the boat as a holiday home go big if you can so it can be more like being in a house than a boat. If it's in the med you want a big fridge/freezer. Flybridges offer more space but for me, more importantly, they are quieter. We tend to cruise @ 18 knots - around that speed you can talk in normal voices and you have very little engine noise. Go faster and you have to start yelling at each other over the wind. My (limited) targa style experience is marred by engine noise - its OK for an hour, but more than that I start to get a headache and again you can't easily converse. Pootling is excellent on a big boat - but it takes time so you need the right day weather wise.

Have fun looking.
 
Good summary. I am having a gyro fitted at this moment as I and everyone else is fed u with the roll. Hope it works!

Pootling is fine but I can only di it for half an hour and get bored. The fuel savings on a decent trip are however dramatic. Once gyro fitted I will try it more. As long as not rolling slows just slow not slow and rolling
 
kashurst said:
Just a few things to chuck in the mix.
When you have got your boat what are you going to do on it/ with it?
We/I have been all three of Deleted User's med boat types. We are now in the Villa/pool mode and do mostly day boating with a few longer trips over the summer or early autumn on the Spain mainland near Alicante. We now have a 38 foot flybridge but prior to that a 45 foot targa and then a fifty foot flybridge with midcabin, washing machine etc.

Over the last twenty years we have had lots of people on board our various boats and peoples reactions vary enormously when they get on board. Most people love it - well they love zooming along on a beautiful calm day - just like the adverts. Seeing dolphins whilst on a cruise. Messing about with a fast tender or a jetski. They love pulling into a new marina and going out on the town for the evening. They love dining on the flybridge or cockpit. They love sunbathing on the forward deck or flybridge living the dream and hanging around the marina with all the boats etc. Sleeping and living on board is exciting and different. That's all brilliant and why we buy them.

They don't like - a lumpy ride in the afternoon when the wind gets up and the boat starts moving around. People expect a motor boat to move around like a cruise ship. Unless the boat is pretty big with stabilisers they pitch and if you have to slow down, roll. I haven't had anyone throw up in a long time but I have had a few turn green, praying for the journey to end on what I would consider a calm day. People really don't like being at anchor with the boat is rolling around like a pig. If your boating time is limited ideally you need to be based somewhere there is always a place with calm-ish water so you can do some sort of boating activity, and/or things to do/see ashore. If you start going out when it's really a bit too rough to be fun, people get upset/frightened.
Sant Carles has the lagoon, the Costa Blanca has some quiet corners in the north end of the bays and the inland sea the Mar Menor. The Balearics have the Calas and the South of France has a generally favourable wind direction - which are terrific but they are busy and you pay the price! So do some research on that, where ever you are thinking of being based. Some marinas are very cheap - there is a reason for that! They are either in the middle of nowhere so its boating or not a lot else, or the prevailing wind/sea state makes it all hard work too often. If you have teenagers you need to think about that, else they won't want to come along.

Much day time boating in the med is water activities: Swimming in the sea. Some people don't like swimming in the sea - the salt and fear of what else might be in the water - jelly fish and sharks. Sharks are not a problem in the med - humans have eaten pretty much everything. Jelly fish unfortunately are sometimes a problem.
Getting into the sea from the bathing platform. Some people really don't like either jumping in or climbing down the swim ladder into relatively deep water when the boat is anchored or tied to a buoy. The boat will be in 10 - 20 feet of water and usually a bit too far from land for an easy swim if they are not confident swimmers. Getting back aboard can be difficult if people are not reasonably fit either - and if the boat is moving about, a bit intimidating.

Ultimately motor boats, however big, are just posh caravans - so living aboard is not like living in a house. There are compromises. I could quite happily live aboard all the time. However most people have a limit - they start to miss the conveniences and space a house offers (hence our change to villa mode). The thing my wife dislikes is getting a big food and drink shop onto the boat across a passarelle and then finding places for all of it. So if you are going to use the boat as a holiday home go big if you can so it can be more like being in a house than a boat. If it's in the med you want a big fridge/freezer. Flybridges offer more space but for me, more importantly, they are quieter. We tend to cruise @ 18 knots - around that speed you can talk in normal voices and you have very little engine noise. Go faster and you have to start yelling at each other over the wind. My (limited) targa style experience is marred by engine noise - its OK for an hour, but more than that I start to get a headache and again you can't easily converse. Pootling is excellent on a big boat - but it takes time so you need the right day weather wise.

Have fun looking.
Click to expand...
So much sense in here (as well as all of the the other posts from all you guys)...

You guys are helping me a great deal here. THANK YOU!
 
kashurst said:
Just a few things to chuck in the mix.
When you have got your boat what are you going to do on it/ with it?
We/I have been all three of Deleted User's med boat types. We are now in the Villa/pool mode and do mostly day boating with a few longer trips over the summer or early autumn on the Spain mainland near Alicante. We now have a 38 foot flybridge but prior to that a 45 foot targa and then a fifty foot flybridge with midcabin, washing machine etc.

Over the last twenty years we have had lots of people on board our various boats and peoples reactions vary enormously when they get on board. Most people love it - well they love zooming along on a beautiful calm day - just like the adverts. Seeing dolphins whilst on a cruise. Messing about with a fast tender or a jetski. They love pulling into a new marina and going out on the town for the evening. They love dining on the flybridge or cockpit. They love sunbathing on the forward deck or flybridge living the dream and hanging around the marina with all the boats etc. Sleeping and living on board is exciting and different. That's all brilliant and why we buy them.

They don't like - a lumpy ride in the afternoon when the wind gets up and the boat starts moving around. People expect a motor boat to move around like a cruise ship. Unless the boat is pretty big with stabilisers they pitch and if you have to slow down, roll. I haven't had anyone throw up in a long time but I have had a few turn green, praying for the journey to end on what I would consider a calm day. People really don't like being at anchor with the boat is rolling around like a pig. If your boating time is limited ideally you need to be based somewhere there is always a place with calm-ish water so you can do some sort of boating activity, and/or things to do/see ashore. If you start going out when it's really a bit too rough to be fun, people get upset/frightened.
Sant Carles has the lagoon, the Costa Blanca has some quiet corners in the north end of the bays and the inland sea the Mar Menor. The Balearics have the Calas and the South of France has a generally favourable wind direction - which are terrific but they are busy and you pay the price! So do some research on that, where ever you are thinking of being based. Some marinas are very cheap - there is a reason for that! They are either in the middle of nowhere so its boating or not a lot else, or the prevailing wind/sea state makes it all hard work too often. If you have teenagers you need to think about that, else they won't want to come along.

Much day time boating in the med is water activities: Swimming in the sea. Some people don't like swimming in the sea - the salt and fear of what else might be in the water - jelly fish and sharks. Sharks are not a problem in the med - humans have eaten pretty much everything. Jelly fish unfortunately are sometimes a problem.
Getting into the sea from the bathing platform. Some people really don't like either jumping in or climbing down the swim ladder into relatively deep water when the boat is anchored or tied to a buoy. The boat will be in 10 - 20 feet of water and usually a bit too far from land for an easy swim if they are not confident swimmers. Getting back aboard can be difficult if people are not reasonably fit either - and if the boat is moving about, a bit intimidating.

Ultimately motor boats, however big, are just posh caravans - so living aboard is not like living in a house. There are compromises. I could quite happily live aboard all the time. However most people have a limit - they start to miss the conveniences and space a house offers (hence our change to villa mode). The thing my wife dislikes is getting a big food and drink shop onto the boat across a passarelle and then finding places for all of it. So if you are going to use the boat as a holiday home go big if you can so it can be more like being in a house than a boat. If it's in the med you want a big fridge/freezer. Flybridges offer more space but for me, more importantly, they are quieter. We tend to cruise @ 18 knots - around that speed you can talk in normal voices and you have very little engine noise. Go faster and you have to start yelling at each other over the wind. My (limited) targa style experience is marred by engine noise - its OK for an hour, but more than that I start to get a headache and again you can't easily converse. Pootling is excellent on a big boat - but it takes time so you need the right day weather wise.

Have fun looking.
Click to expand...
Nice report K. Unless your visitors are boaters they are looking for a ferry ride, not a cruise. It’s very nice to have something spectacular to visit nearby, an island usually fits the bill. Indeed some guests feel like they have been shanghaied when they only came to visit you, so be careful not to insist too strongly. Also remember a lot of family and friends won’t trust you as skipper, they may remember you from a previous life when you were a carpenter, taxi driver or solicitor. Whereas they trust the captain of a commercial vessel they’ve never met before.
 
kashurst said:
They don't like - a lumpy ride in the afternoon when the wind gets up and the boat starts moving around. People expect a motor boat to move around like a cruise ship. Unless the boat is pretty big with stabilisers they pitch and if you have to slow down, roll. I haven't had anyone throw up in a long time but I have had a few turn green, praying for the journey to end on what I would consider a calm day. People really don't like being at anchor with the boat is rolling around like a pig.
Click to expand...

Yes you do need to be careful about who you invite onboard! I managed to turn my stepdaughter into a jibbering wreck on one particularly lumpy sea crossing and she had just sailed back from Australia to the UK in a 36ft sailing yacht. Mind you she got her revenge a few years later when one of her kids deliberately scratched the wall coverings in his cabin with his nails which resulted in a massive sense of humour failure on my part. On another occasion we invited a family onboard and again on a lumpy journey they threw up so much in the cockpit that they blocked the cockpit drains. I still remember looking down from the flybridge at the end of the journey and seeing a huge pool of seawater and vomit sloshing around the cockpit. And on another occasion at anchor overnight with my sister in law onboard, the wind turned around in the early hours and made the anchorage quite bumpy. I knew we werent dragging but she decided to wake the whole boat up handing out lifejackets and accused me of being a maniac for endangering the lives of her family

I havent put anyone off here have I? Sometimes its just better onboard with you and your wife
 
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