Go Big or Go Home?

[GravyStain]

This is our experience of Med boating

We spent the first 12 years of our boating life in and around the Solent and E Channel before getting fed up with UK weather and moving to the Med in 2003. We started off berthed in the South of France after which we had periods berthed in the Costa Blanca, Majorca, Croatia and Sardinia before returning to the South of France in 2016. After 17 years and experience of various locations in the Med these are my personal thoughts.

The first thing to decide is what type of Med boater you are and there are 3 main types.

The first type is the person who already has a property in the Med and the boat will just be an add on to his villa lifestyle, in other words a day boat. This type of boater is probably best suited to a sports cruiser of moderate size (say 30-40ft) which maximises sunbathing and loafing space and minimises accommodation (must have heads/shower though). The boat will only ever go to the nearest anchorage so engine type, fuel range etc is immaterial. It doesnt matter how old the boat is because, if it breaks down, well there's always the villa and pool

The second type is the boater who is still working and may or may not have kids in tow; this type has limited time to use his boat, probably 5-6 weeks a year max and in short periods, maybe only weekends plus a 2 week summer holiday.. This type of boater needs to minimise travel time to his boat so it matters where he moors it and that means a marina not more than 1hr from an airport served by inexpensive daily flights from his chosen UK airport. He also needs a location where reliable maintenance services are readily available and be willing to spend money paying other people to maintain his boat because he does not want to spend his very limited boating time repairing his boat whilst his wife fumes asking herself why her husband is putting her and her family through this torture and can they take a package holiday to the Costa del Sol next year. Because for this type of boater, his Med boat is also his holiday home, the boat needs to maximise both outdoor and indoor living space and IMHO a flybridge boat is the best choice. What length depends on the number of cabins he needs and that depends on the size and age of his family, not forgetting that he probably also needs a spare guest cabin for the inevitable friends or relatives that invite themselves. A couple without kids in tow could probably be very happy on a 2 cabin 40 footer. A couple with 2 kids probably need a 3 cabin 45-50 footer and if the kids are older and demand their own cabins, he probably needs a 4 cabin 55-60 footer or a 3 cabin 50-55 footer with a usable crew cabin. As to what age of boat, here maintenance is the key factor not forgetting that the owner will not want to be spending his limited time mending his boat so if he is in a location where maintenance services are readily available, he might get away with owning an older boat or vice versa but being realistic, probably he's looking at a good quality boat in the 5-15yr old range. For this owner, boating will consist mostly of going to local anchorages where the kids can use the inevitable water toys onboard, occasional overnighting at anchor in fine weather and maybe more extended coastal cruising during his once a year summer holiday

The third type is the retired person who can use his boat whenever he wants, for as long as he wants and at any time of year he chooses. For this owner, it matters far less where the boat is berthed because he has the time to get there and he will be on his boat for fewer but longer visits. Maintenance services are less important because he has the time to work on his boat himself and if its broken down for a week, well so what. This type of owner is also probably best suited to a flybridge boat again to maximise accommodation. The type and age of boat this owner chooses though will probably depend on his cruising plans. If the owner is happy staying onboard in his marina with only occasional short trips out, then an older smaller boat, say around 40-45ft, may be adequate. However if the owner has extended offshore cruising in mind with a significant number of overnight stays in unfamiliar anchorages, then he is going to need a reliable, newer boat, probably longer than 50ft, that is a capable sea boat with decent range (at least 300nm at cruising speed), good anchoring equipment and a reliable generator

That went on a bit longer than I thought but I hope it is useful

Thanks Mike - I think I fall into the second category (with a 5 yr old at school etc). I would want to maximise time on the boat though... 8 to 10 weeks a year i would think. Food for thought. Thanks very much.

 

[GravyStain]

I guess you are in category 2 but maybe working towards category 3 (with or without the self maintenance).
Yes - I agree with everything you say.
Good to see that you have covered the location aspect as well.

I would like to add to the affordability bit - particularly with reference to location.
A lot of the places that you have kept your boat has been in "eye wateringly" expensive marinas.
I would like to add that there is a version of your category 2 person who simply cannot afford those berthing prices.
I would therefore like to point out that the cat 2 person does exist in cheaper parts of the Med.
Here we go with prices again - a 55 footer in the SoF or Mallorca - I guess £25,000 to £30,000 per annum.
In locations where it takes a little longer to reach (Sant Carles for example is a couple of hours from Barcelona - a big European airline hub) the prices can be as little as £3,500 to £4,000 and that includes services.
So, yes, I agree with your categorisation but cat 2 people are prepared to have a little extra inconvenience in order to afford their boating.
And it is a BIG cost difference.

Spot on Hurricane (for me at least). I would be happy with berthing fees at £10k per annum but would baulk at £30k... It's not my fault, It's remembering where I came from!

 

[GravyStain]

Yep - agreed
But it is a HUGE price to pay to avoid a couple of hours in a car and you still have to get to/from the airport in the SoF.
I remember when we visited Antibes, JFM very kindly drove SWMBO to the airport for me and there were huge queues through Nice so it isn't all plane sailing anywhere.
For a young family, I would suggest that a marina with a swimming pool would be higher on the list.

I'll bear that in mind. thank you.

 

[Seastoke]

there is a boat share on ebay a sqwaddy 58 i think.

 

[markc]

It's also worth mentioning that the best mooring is probably the one that's available! It is very hard to get a 50ft mooring in SoF so be prepared to maybe go to a less favourable marina until you can get in to the one you want.

 

[GravyStain]

there is a boat share on ebay a sqwaddy 58 i think.

Didn't realise you'd get that on ebay!

 

[GravyStain]

It's also worth mentioning that the best mooring is probably the one that's available! It is very hard to get a 50ft mooring in SoF so be prepared to maybe go to a less favourable marina until you can get in to the one you want.

It would be in southern Spain initially so not problem there for me (at the moment). Prices seem reasonable too (18 metres at say 8k euros in a decent marina)...

 

[GravyStain]

there is a boat share on ebay a sqwaddy 58 i think.

2006 FAIRLINE SQUADRON 58 - QUARTER 1/4 BOAT SHARE | eBay

Yes... amazing what you can find on Ebay these days!

 

[Seastoke]

2006 FAIRLINE SQUADRON 58 - QUARTER 1/4 BOAT SHARE | eBay

Yes... amazing what you can find on Ebay these days!

or you could 'pay 94% of my boat costs and i use it 94% of the what is not to like and you can have any week you like . just send me a pm with ten k deposite .

 

[GravyStain]

or you could 'pay 94% of my boat costs and i use it 94% of the what is not to like and you can have any week you like . just send me a pm with ten k deposite .

Hahahaha... let me think about that...

 

[Hurricane]

Probably too much for the budget but this is a really nice Squaddie 58 (100% ownership!)
And already on a cheap berth in Sant Carles - right opposite the swimming pool.
For Sale 2008 Fairline Squadron 58 - Boats.co.uk

On the seventh pic in, there is a rather nice P67 as well but, sadly, not for sale - you need to double click the larger image to see the whole of the pic.

 

[MapisM]

For a young family, I would suggest that a marina with a swimming pool would be higher on the list.

Yep, that's a valid point, as is travel convenience and several others. But at the end of the day, imho what really matters (at least for us 3rd type boaters!) is finding a place that you like, with friends you fancy catching up with.
That's what can make it or break it, in the choice of where to live - as opposed to a place where to spend some shortish holiday breaks.
And in this respect, there's plenty of relatively unknown places around the Med that are absolute gems.
It does take time to find and appreciate them, though. Not the sort of thing you can grasp with weekend stays...

 

[GravyStain]

Probably too much for the budget but this is a really nice Squaddie 58 (100% ownership!)
And already on a cheap berth in Sant Carles - right opposite the swimming pool.
For Sale 2008 Fairline Squadron 58 - Boats.co.uk

On the seventh pic in, there is a rather nice P67 as well but, sadly, not for sale - you need to double click the larger image to see the whole of the pic.

Afraid so... Budget will be arround £300k which will leave a reasonable fighting fund in case of the inevitable issues that crop up. I'm allowing around 20k P. A. For marina @ approx £8k, servicing, anti foul and the odd drop of guzzoline ... Sound about right?

 

[Hurricane]

Afraid so... Budget will be arround £300k which will leave a reasonable fighting fund in case of the inevitable issues that crop up. I'm allowing around 20k P. A. For marina @ approx £8k, servicing, anti foul and the odd drop of guzzoline ... Sound about right?

So, that leaves about £12K for running a 50foot ish boat.
Might work for you - I think a cat 3 person WOULD make it work.
So, I don't think you are a league out.
I've been getting away with a little less than £10,000 pa of fuel - that is about 3 trips from Sant Carles to the Balearics each year where we get, arguably, the best anchorages in the Med.
Our boat probably uses twice the fuel of a 50 footer and if you are basing the boat in the South of Spain, the fuel usage might be less - only short runs to local anchorages and marinas - not the long runs that we do.
So, your budget might work.
Personally, I find that the mainland doesn't offer much in the way of anchorages which is why I trek across to the Balearics each year whilst keeping the boat in one of the cheapest places you could find.
IMO, being a cat 2 person you will have about £3k to £5k p/a boatyard maintenance.
Engine maintenance £2k to £3k.
Guardinage £2k to £3k
And Insurance (say) £2k to £3k
As long as you are excluding your travel to/from, you probably aren't too far out.

There are a lot of cat 2 and cat 3 people in our marina but we have our excellent lagoon right outside the entrance so some berth holders hardly ever use any fuel and just get their boating fix by travelling less than a mile from their home berths.

 

[Hurricane]

Yep, that's a valid point, as is travel convenience and several others. But at the end of the day, imho what really matters (at least for us 3rd type boaters!) is finding a place that you like, with friends you fancy catching up with.
That's what can make it or break it, in the choice of where to live - as opposed to a place where to spend some shortish holiday breaks.
And in this respect, there's plenty of relatively unknown places around the Med that are absolute gems.
It does take time to find and appreciate them, though. Not the sort of thing you can grasp with weekend stays...

Yes, and you found your little gem a long enough time ago to enjoy it.
As you say, you have lots of friends on your little island which has made it a real "home from home".
In fact, your friends made me feel at home as well when we visited you a few years ago.

As many on here will know, we bought our berth in Sant Carles before the place was built and our boat was amongst some of the first when the marina was opened.
Being a UK managed marina, and since those early days, we have met lots of lifetime friends.
We often cruise together but more importantly, we all get along well - yachties and motorboaters alike.
Parties happen in the marina, whilst away cruising on our boats and when back in the UK.
In fact, due to Covid, this Christmas will be the first time that we haven't got together since the marina first opened.

 

[MapisM]

In fact, due to Covid, this Christmas will be the first time that we haven't got together since the marina first opened.

Funny you should say that, M.
We are at the moment in the opposite situation, 'cause several of our friends from mainland Italy decided to stay here in their holiday homes, due to covid.
And also ourselves, who usually like to exploit home exchange for travelling around the world in wintertime, decided to postpone any trip to better times, for the same reason.
Bottom line, the place is actually busier than it usually is at this time of the year, which makes it even more "homey" than it already was!

 

[Hurricane]

Funny you should say that, M.
We are at the moment in the opposite situation, 'cause several of our friends from mainland Italy decided to stay here in their holiday homes, due to covid.
And also ourselves, who usually like to exploit home exchange for travelling around the world in wintertime, decided to postpone any trip to better times, for the same reason.
Bottom line, the place is actually busier than it usually is at this time of the year, which makes it even more "homey" than it already was!

Yes, agreed
I've been out to Sant Carles 3 times during this pandemic.
Each time, I have felt very safe in the marina.
I guess that San Pietro being a small island also has that element of safety from the virus.

 

[GravyStain]

Hurricane - an 18M berth in your marina is around £6k per year - that's pretty good value given the amenities. the only reason I would prefer more southern Spain is for the climate during the winter months.

I'm happy to be proved wrong here as my experience is limited. My reason for Spain is also that I can speak Spanish to a level that will get me by (too many months in Cuba, but that's another story ).

As for finding and making friends I think this is a wonderful part of the culture of boating and finding a marina that 'fits' will be very important. Nothing like having happy kids with others to socialise with, let alone mum and dad! I'm happy to draw on you guys experience and when Ii'm ready to start looking for berths I'll be back here to bother you lot again!

 

[Hurricane]

Hurricane - an 18M berth in your marina is around £6k per year - that's pretty good value given the amenities. the only reason I would prefer more southern Spain is for the climate during the winter months.

I'm happy to be proved wrong here as my experience is limited. My reason for Spain is also that I can speak Spanish to a level that will get me by (too many months in Cuba, but that's another story ).

As for finding and making friends I think this is a wonderful part of the culture of boating and finding a marina that 'fits' will be very important. Nothing like having happy kids with others to socialise with, let alone mum and dad! I'm happy to draw on you guys experience and when Ii'm ready to start looking for berths I'll be back here to bother you lot again!

Actually, Sant Carles doesn't have any 18m berths - There are lots of 15m and 20m (nominal size) berths. Half the marina is built using UK style pontoons - unlike most Med marinas which are stern berths. The beauty of a pontoon berth is that you can get down the sides of the boats for cleaning etc and stern berthing is a little more difficult to manoeuvre the boat (pick up lazy lines etc).
In Sant Carles, they allow you berth a boat that is 10% longer than the berth's nominal length. For example you can berth a 16.5m boat on a 15m berth.
You can rent berths in three ways.
1 - Directly with the marina (annually or on a long term lease)
2 - As a sub lease from someone who already has a long term lease.
3 - Directly with the marina as a long term lease.
In 1 and 2 above, you will find that all the service charges including all electricity and water etc will be included in the berth price.
In option 3, the marina charge an annual service charge.
Generally speaking, it is cheaper to rent a berth as a sub lease (option 2 above).
I'm not up to date with the marina prices but, if you shop around, you can find some great sub lease deals.
I know people who are sub leasing 15m berths at about £3000 pa and 20m berths for less than £3800 pa (inc all the services)
Thats a great deal.
In my case, I bought a long term lease (30 years when the marina opened) on a 20m pontoon berth.
We are half way through the 30 years period now but in my case, I have been keeping a 20m boat in the Med for half the price of my old 15m boat that I used to keep in the Hamble.

So, to recap, it isn't £6K it can be less than £3500 for a 15m boat on a pontoon berth including all the service charges.
Maybe less for a Med style stern berth.

As to South of Spain, (I will probably be flamed for this) I can't see where you would cruise your boat. Most of the coastline is exposed so anchoring off or marina hopping is about all you can do. I did my Yachtmaster in Duquessa and around Gibraltar and there really wasn't anywhere nice to anchor. There must be places up the coast but, in my experience, nothing like Ibiza, Mallorca or Menorca.
The weather in Sant Carles during the summer months is very hot and a lot of berth holders enjoy the winter months especially over Christmas and the New Year.

Here's a video of a late season cruise a couple of years ago that we did from Sant Carles showing what can be done from a cheap Spanish mainland base. I'm not sure that the South of Spain has anything like this.

 

[GravyStain]

Actually, Sant Carles doesn't have any 18m berths - There are lots of 15m and 20m (nominal size) berths. Half the marina is built using UK style pontoons - unlike most Med marinas which are stern berths. The beauty of a pontoon berth is that you can get down the sides of the boats for cleaning etc and stern berthing is a little more difficult to manoeuvre the boat (pick up lazy lines etc).
In Sant Carles, they allow you berth a boat that is 10% longer than the berth's nominal length. For example you can berth a 16.5m boat on a 15m berth.
You can rent berths in three ways.
1 - Directly with the marina (annually or on a long term lease)
2 - As a sub lease from someone who already has a long term lease.
3 - Directly with the marina as a long term lease.
In 1 and 2 above, you will find that all the service charges including all electricity and water etc will be included in the berth price.
In option 3, the marina charge an annual service charge.
Generally speaking, it is cheaper to rent a berth as a sub lease (option 2 above).
I'm not up to date with the marina prices but, if you shop around, you can find some great sub lease deals.
I know people who are sub leasing 15m berths at about £3000 pa and 20m berths for less than £3800 pa (inc all the services)
Thats a great deal.
In my case, I bought a long term lease (30 years when the marina opened) on a 20m pontoon berth.
We are half way through the 30 years period now but in my case, I have been keeping a 20m boat in the Med for half the price of my old 15m boat that I used to keep in the Hamble.

So, to recap, it isn't £6K it can be less than £3500 for a 15m boat on a pontoon berth including all the service charges.
Maybe less for a Med style stern berth.

As to South of Spain, (I will probably be flamed for this) I can't see where you would cruise your boat. Most of the coastline is exposed so anchoring off or marina hopping is about all you can do. I did my Yachtmaster in Duquessa and around Gibraltar and there really wasn't anywhere nice to anchor. There must be places up the coast but, in my experience, nothing like Ibiza, Mallorca or Menorca.
The weather in Sant Carles during the summer months is very hot and a lot of berth holders enjoy the winter months especially over Christmas and the New Year.

Here's a video of a late season cruise a couple of years ago that we did from Sant Carles showing what can be done from a cheap Spanish mainland base. I'm not sure that the South of Spain has anything like this.

WOW! Those are cheap marina fees! Thanks for the advice. As I said, I'm not stuck to going to sothern Spain as my knowledge of the area is limited. I only chose that because of the Climate. Your marina has some great advantages - close to Barcelona, Valencia, The Balaerics and good cruising areas.

Can I ask - what are the facilities like in terms of maintenance / services etc???

Edit - Great video by the way.