Generator ground

[PaulRainbow]

I have repeated asked Paul to do the current flow analysis, and he has refused, I do consider why, I have my opinion but will not express it here on a public forum.

I'm not here to answer to you, you will argue until the cows come home, no matter what anyone says, unless it agrees with you.

You are unable to comprehend the simple concept that fixed generator and inverter installations are required to have a secondary Earth connection, other than shore power Earth and that the Neutral/Earth must be bonded at supply.

That's what current regs say, it's what manufacturers say and it's exactly what Honda says about the OPs generator.

It's really that simple !

If you want to invent special rogerthebodger wiring that's entirely up to you, but don't post on here that it's in some way better or safer than official methods.

 

[billskip]

fixed generator and inverter installations are required to have a secondary Earth connection, other than shore power Earth and that the Neutral/Earth must be bonded at supply.

Apart from quoting the regulations can you explain why, and what is likely to cause me to get an electric shock any different from any electric installation please.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Apart from quoting the regulations can you explain why, and what is likely to cause me to get an electric shock any different from any electric installation please.

Do you not have an Earth connection at home ?

Do you not have an Earth connection on the shore power system of your boat ?

Why would you not want one on a generator or inverter ?

 

[billskip]

Do you not have an Earth connection at home ?

Do you not have an Earth connection on the shore power system of your boat ?

Why would you not want one on a generator or inverter ?

I'm in Tenerife Paul and this apartment is a block of 16 apartments and there are I think 7 blocks.....its a 220v single supply with 220 v socket outlets...

There is no earth/ground wire connection in the consumer unit.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I'm in Tenerife Paul and this apartment is a block of 16 apartments and there are I think 7 blocks.....its a 220v single supply with 220 v socket outlets...

There is no earth/ground wire connection in the consumer unit.

Apparently, some older Spanish buildings have limited, or no, Earths, but i don't know for sure, not my field.

 

[billskip]

Do you not have an Earth connection on the shore power system of your boat ?

Didn't have shore power on my (now sold)
Boat, but did have a 3kw generator, there was no earth/ground wire external from the generator and it's output supply circuit, it was fitted with an rcd 30ma protection and in all the years never got an electric shock.
Maybe it didn't conform to regulations, (survey on purchase and buyers survey on sale didn't flag) but I would be interested to know how it not being to regulations it was likely to give me an electric shock.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Didn't have shore power on my (now sold)
Boat, but did have a 3kw generator, there was no earth/ground wire external from the generator and it's output supply circuit, it was fitted with an rcd 30ma protection and in all the years never got an electric shock.
Maybe it didn't conform to regulations, (survey on purchase and buyers survey on sale didn't flag) but I would be interested to know how it not being to regulations it was likely to give me an electric shock.

You don't get an electric shock until something goes wrong, then it tests your safety systems.

It's pointless debating an unknown generator on a boat you no longer own.

I've answered the OPs question, about his new generator on his current boat.

 

[Sandro]

PaulRainbow post #60
Of course you can be shocked if you stand on wet floor - as lustyd said - or stronger if you touch two different wires.
I said "insulated".

 

[PaulRainbow]

PaulRainbow post #60
Of course you can be shocked if you stand on wet floor - as lustyd said - or stronger if you touch two different wires.
I said "insulated".

I never mentioned a wet floor, i said standing on a GRP boat.

There must clearly be enough conductivity in some boats to carry some current to ground, through the water and give you a shock. It must be a small enough current so as not to trip the RCD, but it's still strong enough to give you a jolt.

 

[billskip]

I never mentioned a wet floor, i said standing on a GRP boat.

There must clearly be enough conductivity in some boats to carry some current to ground, through the water and give you a shock. It must be a small enough current so as not to trip the RCD, but it's still strong enough to give you a jolt.

Have you ever tripped a 30ma rcd by touching the supply?
Or is that a rude and arrogant question?

 

[wonkywinch]

 

[rogerthebodger]

In the ship application specs I posted some time age it he DC and AC should not be connected to the metal hull this can cause eddy currents in the metal structure thus cause galvanic corrosion and excessive anode erosion.

There used to be a recommendation to connect off skin fittings together and to an anode and mains and dc negative connected to this connection.

This was discredited on GRP boats where the skin fittings are insulated from each other so no galvanic current path so no galvanic corrosion.

The same with mains earthing on a non-metric hull. N current patch so how can you get an electric shock. This issue if that the "earthing is a extra safer connection in a land-based system but in an insulated system like a GRP boat how does the leakage current flow when the substrate cannot conduct any current.

There has been many instances where an aircraft or a car gas been struck by lightning you none of the people inside have suffered any injuries as they are no direct connections to earth.

Metal boats are different as the hull/deck and all fittings are connected to gather by conductible material.

You also have a faraday cage effect that conducts any electricity away from any
people on board.

Again, di a current path analysis and see where the current flows and that well tell you if a person will get electrocuted or just gain an increase potential (voltage) which will make your hair stand on end

This document is confusing as it starts with non metal boat/hull by the specified a connection to the hull on metal boats only.

I an not suppressed the is so much confusion and different opinions as that is so much conflicting recommendation and standards as there are many different ways of wiring up different application

 

[Refueler]

Hows about standing on a rubber matt ??

 

[rogerthebodger]

Hows about standing on a rubber matt ??

And place you hand on a tesla coil and your hair will just stand in end

 

[billskip]

It was most probably static discharge..

 

[PaulRainbow]

It was most probably static discharge..

Of course it was, how silly of me not to know the difference. You really are something else, unfortunately, forum rules prevent me from saying what that might be.

 

[billskip]

Of course it was, how silly of me not to know the difference. You really are something else, unfortunately, forum rules prevent me from saying what that might be.

You think you would know the difference between a static discharge and a less than 30ma .........

 

[PaulRainbow]

You think you would know the difference between a static discharge and a less than 30ma .........

I think i know the difference between a genuine poster and a troll.

 

[billskip]

I think i know the difference between a genuine poster and a troll.

That's blatant thread drift

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

You think you would know the difference between a static discharge and a less than 30ma .........

Yes without a doubt You would.