Fully battened mainsail

dunedin said:
But what would Skip N know about severe weather - only spent most of the past few decades leading sailing voyages round Cape Horn, the Southern Oceans, Wedddel Sea, South Georgia etc.
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Talking of weather and the Southern Ocean etc

Check this one out

This couple are half way round the world (and in Tassie currently). Their yacht is 7.70m. If you want to test the strength of a relationship I cannot think of a better way to check for compatibility.

I'm just about to arrange a new rode for them, 6mm.

Into the wind | La vie au fil de l'eau et du vent

Its probably in the blog but I could ask them about their battens, or not. If it is considered relevant - but I don't want to completely commandeer your thread.

Jonathan
 
Neeves said:
Novak's issues are similar to ours, except his main is much bigger.

In order to attach a tri sail you need to get up on top of that reinforced helm station, tame the main, it would be difficult to take off, and attach the tri sail. The roof off the helm station is a long way off the nominal sea level - you would feel immensely vulnerable. The boom ends would be quite a stretch. A 4th reef seems much more sensible. Its surprising that they are not more common. We often use our 3rd reef and in fact seldom use the first - we go straight to the second reef.

Novak is much more concerned with ground tackle - look at those shore lines cluttering the deck.

Interestingly he has no anchor on the bow roller - not sure where he stores it but it must be a real beast to ready to anchor.

View attachment 123119

Pelagic in Port Stanley

Some slight drift here, apologies.

Take care, stay safe
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On our Prout Snowgoose 37 we had a fourth reef fitted before did an Atlantic circuit. Our mast was 8ft taller than standard. We rarely used the first reef.
On our current monohull ketch. Three reefs is fine since we drop it completely and sail on staysail and mizzen if it's getting a tad breezy?
 
Neeves said:
Novak's issues are similar to ours, except his main is much bigger.

In order to attach a tri sail you need to get up on top of that reinforced helm station, tame the main, it would be difficult to take off, and attach the tri sail.
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Surely the trisail is permanently rigged (& you do not take the mainsail off at all). Or at least rigged in advance of heavy weather. There would be a second track running from the deck with a sort of chicanne past the gooseneck then running up alongside the mast track or groove. It has its own halyard. A line is set to the boom end & possibly retained along the side of the boom with temporary retainer cords.
So all one does, is drop the main completely (which will have had most of its reefs in anyway) secure that & hoist the trysail. The foot of the trysail will have a strop to set the height of the sail to the correct position up the track & the line along the boom would be tensioned as a typical loose footed clew outhaul. The topping lift will set the boom height. In a large blue water yacht with a crew it is a simple operation.
Whilst it would be done in heavy seas the process is actually quite simple with the trysail stored in a bag on the deck for use as required
That is my take on it anyway. Others might tell me that I am wrong.
 
Daydream believer said:
Surely the trisail is permanently rigged (& you do not take the mainsail off at all). Or at least rigged in advance of heavy weather. There would be a second track running from the deck with a sort of chicanne past the gooseneck then running up alongside the mast track or groove. It has its own halyard. A line is set to the boom end & possibly retained along the side of the boom with temporary retainer cords.
So all one does, is drop the main completely (which will have had most of its reefs in anyway) secure that & hoist the trysail. The foot of the trysail will have a strop to set the height of the sail to the correct position up the track & the line along the boom would be tensioned as a typical loose footed clew outhaul. The topping lift will set the boom height. In a large blue water yacht with a crew it is a simple operation.
Whilst it would be done in heavy seas the process is actually quite simple with the trysail stored in a bag on the deck for use as required
That is my take on it anyway. Others might tell me that I am wrong.
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Just how many yachts have 2 tracks.

You might rig a tri sail when you put in the 3rd reef - but you might believe the forecast that the weather will get better

When racing to rules - you must have a tri sail.. It may have changed but there was no requirement to have 2 tracks. The mast gate to access the track for the tri sail was too low (there was no rule on the location of the gate) and there was need to remove most of the main (from the mast) to install the tri sail. Great with a crew of 12, and maybe not. but heroic for a crew of 6.

Many carry tri sails but I have yet to see many with 2 tracks.

But I do lead a very sheltered life now (and have no recent glass ware :( ).

Jonathan
 
I've just had a new fully battened main fitted with Rutgerson/OWS cars, the Battcar type. These use the existing track in the Kemp (now Selden) mast. Very pleased with them and a vast improvement on the earlier version fitted over 20 years ago. Getting a new main has shown that the old one was well past its use by date but I'm now considering a new headsail to match the main performance. I wont add any more comments to raising and lowering as they have been covered in this thread.
It does have 3 reefs and the last reef possibly makes the main about 30% of its original size. I'm hoping that this will be enough, but generally aim to avoid gales by being in a safe location .......
 
My friend Google tells me of a 'Sandy Bay' at Enderby Island, well south of South Island, NZ. Google Images tells me it is a darn sight less scenic there than the very beautiful Sandy Bay which is part of the Table Mountain National Park. During the week, the S.A. beach is busy with penguins, and not people....

51519077728_ce9bf348e9_z.jpg


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At weekends, it's the other way round. But I can't show you. 'Forum rules'.... it's a famous nudist beach!
:cool:
 
Boathook said:
I'm hoping that this will be enough, but generally aim to avoid gales by being in a safe location .......
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Any sailor that does a few miles can get caught out. ie I have regularly been stuffed on trips that one would expect to take 15 hours.- A typical day sail in the summer- . But the number of times it has reached 32kts plus for a large part of the trip is quite surprising At That level I have no need for the third reef . Just a reminder that I should be seriously considering the next move a bit sharpish.
 
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DJE said:
Our bilge keel Sadler 29 hove too quite happily with the No.3 genoa or a similarly reefed roller genoa. You could tie the tiller down to leeward and leave her alone. Not so good with a big overlapping headsail though.
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I always heave to on starboard tack. Just in case I fall asleep .
 
I have a query. Which end goes to the mast when you insert the batten? I put thick end to mast. Read something which made we wonder if that's correct with fully battened mainsails. Am I wrong?
 
zoidberg said:
My friend Google tells me of a 'Sandy Bay' at Enderby Island, well south of South Island, NZ. Google Images tells me it is a darn sight less scenic there than the very beautiful Sandy Bay which is part of the Table Mountain National Park. During the week, the S.A. beach is busy with penguins, and not people....



51518038387_c30479d301.jpg


At weekends, it's the other way round. But I can't show you. 'Forum rules'.... it's a famous nudist beach!
:cool:
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I note the narative on the second picture , which includes--- lay out, read, PEOPLE WATCH,or wander. ---Just the sort of invitation a leerer needs to visit a nudist beach. Pictures of the late comedian Les Dawson doing his facial expressions come to mind:oops::eek:
 
Daydream believer said:
My last 3 mainsails have always had parallel battens.
However, I would have probably placed the thin end to the mast to allow the batten to take the curve of the sail & the thicker end to support the roach on the flatter section of the sail
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My 3/4 length battens are tapered and the thin end goes nearest to the mast.
 
dgadee said:
I have a query. Which end goes to the mast when you insert the batten? I put thick end to mast. Read something which made we wonder if that's correct with fully battened mainsails. Am I wrong?
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Full length battens, I my experience, are generally not tapered.
Tapered battens are sometimes used for part battened sail, in which case the thin end always goes closest to mast - to give a slightly more even transition from firm batten to unsupported sailcloth
 
geem said:
On our Prout Snowgoose 37 we had a fourth reef fitted before did an Atlantic circuit. Our mast was 8ft taller than standard. We rarely used the first reef.
On our current monohull ketch. Three reefs is fine since we drop it completely and sail on staysail and mizzen if it's getting a tad breezy?
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Same here, but I had my Main reefing points put in about 10 to 15% higher than the 'norm'.
 
dunedin said:
Full length battens, I my experience, are generally not tapered.
Tapered battens are sometimes used for part battened sail, in which case the thin end always goes closest to mast - to give a slightly more even transition from firm batten to unsupported sailcloth
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I can't remember and boat is in Greece, but thought the battens were different thicknesses. Anyhow, I'll know what to do now if they are.
 
LONG_KEELER said:
Yes. These forums are a form of radicalisation and should be stopped .
There are lots of vulnerable old men with fat wallets on here that are easily led by the promise of an extra knot in boat speed , a 10 degree reduction in heeling angle or a non dragging hooped anchor.

Unfortunately, some are too far gone now and are beyond saving.
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My last boat had a fully battened main, ( Initially sceptical) with roller cars and lazy jacks, easy to hoist, doddle to drop (Singlehanded) beautiful shape and set. Why do 'cruisers' want to sacrifice the performance aboat is capable of? An extra knot - Why? 60 miles across channel at 5 knots = 12 hours, at 6 knots = 10 hours - do I need to say more?
The longer life due to non flogging is also a major consideration, the main lasted 24 years and 20,000 miles - it was at the limit but shape and set still good.
 
zoidberg said:
I'm looking at the prospect of a fully-battened mains'l when I change from the older 'vanilla' style. Most of the multis I sailed/raced back a few years had FB mains, and I liked the idea and the results....

....but what difference in performance, in 'drive', might I anticipate, on a modest MAB?
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The full battens let you sail averagely well for a lot of the time but racers will usually choose the more flexible conventional sail. I used to use one type one year and another the next, just for fun.
However when I had a new main made, I have to say I chose to have full battens, they are great for the bone idle.

Did you make your mind up yet?

.
 
doug748 said:
The full battens let you sail averagely well for a lot of the time but racers will usually choose the more flexible conventional sail. I used to use one type one year and another the next, just for fun.
However when I had a new main made, I have to say I chose to have full battens, they are great for the bone idle.

Did you make your mind up yet?

.
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To be sure, we could have replaced our 40 year old rags with a newish tea towel and gotten a better performance, but I have to say that our new FB main and mizzen have been a significant improvement and with the lazy jacks have made handling much easier and safer as well. On underrigged boats the added SA is a bonus and with any kind of outhaul it is easy to trim our newly lose-footed sail.
None the less, to claim a full knot of improvement in speed might be a bit ambitious. In relative average speed terms (based on a 28' DWL) that would be an increase of 20% - not a likely scenario, really.
 
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